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Nick, I am no better then you are. The only difference between us is I have Christ in my heart. All you have to do is be born again and we will be of the same family, the same spirit.
Hi H,
Do not carry any burdens for me because I already have a Saviour who does that and if you would open your heart to his ways you could walk so much more easily. Neither do I need an accuser as there is already one of those.I rebuke the devil and he flees. For he cannot stand up against the blood bought saints of God. We have overcome him by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimonies.
Think for a minute. If your sins, past, present and future have already been paid for on the cross, what can satan accuse you of?
Hi,
One of the things Jesus told us was to call no man 'father'. The meaning of this is to avoid that patronising spirit that is not of God that wishes to control and dominate the faith of others.But Scripture tells each man to drink from his own well and to carry his own cross and follow Jesus.
Not only that we are to be controlled not by men but by the Spirit as shown in Galatians 5
” 25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.”
We are to wallk in the Spirit. we cannot do that if we are following men.In Revelation the source is seen to be the Whore of Babylon.
She works her sorcery to control the minds of men and make them follow her.
Rev 17
” 15And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues”Where the Spirit is there is freedom, not domination.
We must be careful that our so called love does not become domination based on our own insecurities and our need to be in control.
That is not love.
That is not of faith.There is no greater love then to give your life for another. I would gladly give my life to save yours Nick. If you were going to be put to death tomorrow, and they told me that I could take your place, I would, because I love you. This is that same love that our saviour had for all of mankind. So I cannot claim this love as my own, for it is not. It come from him. I only aquired it by faith in him.
Thanks H ,
A noble thought but you would be better to ensure your own safety by making sure your teachings remain within scripture, and in your day to day relations with your brothers you show more kindness and respect.Nick, it is not a noble thought, it is love that fills my heart. It is my Lord who is in me. Don't you have Christ in your heart Nick?
Hi,
Revelation is essentilally prophecy, and it is my view that most of it has yet to occur but if any can point to events, such as world wars etc that have been passed then I am prepared to listenNick, I use to believe that Revelations was all future. The Lord has opened my eyes. Although most still is. There are parts that are not. And the part we are talking about is part of it. It is interesting to note though that only part of the scripture of Revelation 12 is past and part is future. It is a very interesting part of scripture.
I believe verse seventeen is still being fulfilled. I believe all the rest has been fulfilled.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Hi H,
Rev 12
” 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days”
and
” 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
So the woman is Israel and the son Jesus. Jesus is taken into heaven and on his return his followers are resurrected or raptured to be with him. Satan is then cast to earth and Israel is persecuted and those who obey the advice from Jesus to flee do so and are protected. The believers who are not reborn are persecuted and killed.
A few ideas to kick around.
When the devil drew a third part of the stars and cast them to earth to devour the child, I believe this is when Herod sent the troops to kill all the children in Bethleham.
The reason I believe the devil was cast out of heaven when Jesus was resurrected is because he could no longer have access to the throne of God to accuse the children of God. Because all who are born again are cleansed of their sin and their sins are remembered no more. For Jesus went to the cross once and the sins of all past, present and future were removed by his blood. So once he could no longer accuse the children of God, war broke out in heaven to remove him and the fallen angels. Because they no longer had any rightful claim to stand in the kingdom of God.
Now when you say the believers who are not reborn, you don't mean a believer who is not born again do you. You mean believers who are born again after the rapture, right? Because one is not a believer if not born again. So I am assuming you mean the rapture has occured and that those who are left behind and become born again believers will be persecuted and killed?
Anyway, I believe verse seventeen has been and is still being fulfilled today. As for the rest, I believe it has been fulfilled. I believe if one was to search the history of Israel, they would see that this part of Revelations has been fulfilled with the exception of verse seventeen.
Hi H,
Who cast the third of the heavenly angels to earth?Was it not Michael and the heavenly host loyal to God?
Rev 12
” 7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
The earlier verse is a sign in the heavenlies as God uses the stars as signs.
Gen 1
“14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS, and for seasons, and for days, and years:”Rev 12
” 1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne”
The devil tried to kill the Son of God at his birth, but he didn't know when it occured. It is for that reason children up to the age of 2 were killed.
Hi H,
You are right and Satan has always tried to frustrate God, but God allows for that in His plan.But these words are written after that event involving the servant of Satan, Herod, so cannot apply just to that effort but perhaps to Satan's attempts to kill all those in the the body of Christ too?
Sure. Verse seventeen says that for sure. He has been fulfilling this verse ever since he has been cast out. The interesting part of verse seventeen is that I believe it is not just speaking of believers of Jesus, but also Israel and any nation that has kept the commandments of God. Wouldn't you thing that is what it is saying also?
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
Hi H,
I am unconvinced he has yet been cast out because the Woes on earth that accompany his exit are not yet evident are they?
What has changed?
I believe many chapters of Revelation are repeats of previously shown events from another perspective in a different idiom.Rev 12
“Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”Compare Ch 8 then Ch 9
” 13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!”Ch 9
” 12One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. “”
Nick, look at how evil the world is. Never in the history of man has man had the abilitity to destroy all human life and all life in general. The scriptures tell us that if God did not shorted the time, that no flesh would be saved.
What proof would you need to believe satan in wondering around on this orb seeking to devour all whom he can devour? I don't know about you, but I don't see people lining up on the side of righteousness. I do see most lining up on the side of the flesh. For most love sin more then they love God. Most would rather die in their sins then turn to God. You would be amazed at the people who have told me that they will enjoy their life in sin as long as they can.
The son of perdition as spoken of in 2 Thess. 2 has created a man of sin. Not one man, but a type of man. If you read this part of scripture, it refers to in verse eleven as many sons of perdition. It is for this reason man has come to the days of lawlessness, also spoken of in scripture as the days of Noah. Right has become wrong and wrong has become right. Evilness abounds in the hearts of men.
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