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Hi H,
If scripture says he accuses us, whether or not he can make those charges stick, I believe scripture.That just shows how you do not have the truth in you. For if you did, you would know that once we are forgiven, our sins are remembered no more. And where there is no sin, there is no accusation.
Hi H,
It seems odd to me that if anyone ever disagrees with you your first response is always to doubt their salvation. It surely says something about where your faith is truly based.Nick, it seems to me that for one who claims to be a teacher of the Word of God, you know so little about salvation. Why is that? What is that suppose to mean to those who you are trying to lead to salvation if you yourself know nothing of salvation?
Hi H,
If the accuser of the brethren is powerless
why would you want to continue that work?Are you so insecure that you cannot accept
the notion of being imperfect or fallible?You make some good points
but they are so dressed in contentionis is hard to take you seriously
Hi Heiscomingintheclouds
HEBREWS 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;Jesus partook of flesh and blood to destroy him that had the power of death : Satan.
So IS SATAN DESTROYED YET? I read that he will not be destroyed until the end.
Yet his power – his stronghold over the saints which he held by sin is destroyed when we are redeemed by the blood of Jesus.HEBREWS 2:17-18
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.So he is a faithful High Priest to intercede on our behalf before God, not only for the abolition of sin upon rebirth – but the continual work of comforting, consoling, mediating …
I JOHN 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:We have an advocate for the times when through the tempters wiles we fall short of the glory of God, if we confess our faults and failings he is faithful to forgive us, to plead our case before the Throne of God.
EPHESIANS 2:1-2
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:Now I believe you are right in that the war that began in Heaven is now being finished on earth. But I do not see Satan completely cast down to earth yet.
ISAIAH 14:12-16
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;Here we see Lucifer's (aka Satan) process through time plotted. From being firstly Lucifer – the angel of light.
Next he gets puffed up and opposes God – losing his original position and status as an angel of God therefore to become the Devil – the opposer.
And the we are told he is going to be brought down to hell at his final end – and will be mocked by the inhabitants of the pit who will ask “is this the man that caused all this trouble in Heaven and on earth?EZEKIEL 28:12
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.Here is the King of Tyre – clearly identified as Satan – and we find he is perfect (complete) in beauty and full of wisdom – that he IS the anointed cherub that covers – he is a religious spirit and yet leads in worship – only not of God now but of himself. We find that his perfection was from the time of his creation until iniquity was discovered in him – and that he was in the garden of Eden.
Just as God is the King of Heaven and Jesus is the Prince of Peace, so this King of Tyre also has a prince who does his bidding…This prince is also spoken of in Eze 28 and we find he sets himself up as God on the earth. This I believe refers to the one known in Revelation as the antichrist – a man who will be literally the incarnation of Satan on earth…
EZEKIEL 28:8-9
They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.We read he shall be a man which shows us how this saying in Isa 14 comes about – “is this the man?” So Satan's spiritual position will be further weakened by the confinement of his being in a flesh and blood body – which is given to him for the destruction of his being in hell in the company of those he deceived into being there with him.
I like the notes of Dr Scofeild on this subject:
Quote
To him, under God, was committed upon earth the power of death (Heb 2:14) Cast out of Heaven as his proper sphere and “first estate”, he still has access to God as the “accuser of the brethren” (Rev 12:10), and is permitted a certain power of sifting or testing the self-confident and carnal among the beleivers (Job 1:6-11; Luke 22:31-32; I John 2:1). At the beginning of the great tribulation Satan's privilege of access to God as accuser will be withdrawn (Rev 12:7-12)From the notes to the KJV Bible of Dr Scofield
H you asked :
Quote
Brother, how can he accuse any who are blamless. All who accept Jesus are cleansed of their sins and their sins are remembered no more. The devil cannot accuse the blood bought souls of the saints. Praise God for we are free. We are children of the Almighty God, who sent his Son to save us, and now, the accuser has no power over the blood bought.How can he accuse us? He troubles us in our minds, for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but are mighty to the pulling down of strongholds – casting down imagination and every high thing that exalts itself above God's Word and bringing into captivity every thought to Him, to be conformed to the mind of Christ.
I also believe that – whether through the avenue of our troubled minds and the temptations we suffer – or by some other means permitted of God (which I do not claim to know) – that he has a certain access to the ear of God to the intent of accusing us, even as Dr Scofield suggests in his notes.
So that he is not without some influence in Heaven presently – albeit only a token influence of being a sounding brass or a tinkling symbol – trying to create discord in God's great symphony of salvation.IMHO
Quote (malcolm ferris @ Sep. 10 2006,02:44) Hi HeiscominginthecloudsHEBREWS 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;Jesus partook of flesh and blood to destroy him that had the power of death : Satan.
HEBREWS 2:17-18
So IS SATAN DESTROYED YET? I read that he will not be destroyed until the end.
Yet his power – his stronghold over the saints which he held by sin is destroyed when we are redeemed by the blood of Jesus.
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.So he is a faithful High Priest to intercede on our behalf before God, not only for the abolition of sin upon rebirth – but the continual work of comforting, consoling, mediating …
I JOHN 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:We have an advocate for the times when through the tempters wiles we fall short of the glory of God, if we confess our faults and failings he is faithful to forgive us, to plead our case before the Throne of God.
EPHESIANS 2:1-2
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:Now I believe you are right in that the war that began in Heaven is now being finished on earth. But I do not see Satan completely cast down to earth yet.
ISAIAH 14:12-16
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;Here we see Lucifer's (aka Satan) process through time plotted. From being firstly Lucifer – the angel of light.
EZEKIEL 28:12
Next he gets puffed up and opposes God – losing his original position and status as an angel of God therefore to become the Devil – the opposer.
And the we are told he is going to be brought down to hell at his final end – and will be mocked by the inhabitants of the pit who will ask “is this the man that caused all this trouble in Heaven and on earth?
Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.Here is the King of Tyre – clearly identified as Satan – and we find he is perfect (complete) in beauty and full of wisdom – that he IS the anointed cherub that covers – he is a religious spirit and yet leads in worship – only not of God now but of himself. We find that his perfection was from the time of his creation until iniquity was discovered in him – and that he was in the garden of Eden.
Just as God is the King of Heaven and Jesus is the Prince of Peace, so this King of Tyre also has a prince who does his bidding…This prince is also spoken of in Eze 28 and we find he sets himself up as God on the earth. This I believe refers to the one known in Revelation as the antichrist – a man who will be literally the incarnation of Satan on earth…
EZEKIEL 28:8-9
They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.We read he shall be a man which shows us how this saying in Isa 14 comes about – “is this the man?” So Satan's spiritual position will be further weakened by the confinement of his being in a flesh and blood body – which is given to him for the destruction of his being in hell in the company of those he deceived into being there with him.
I like the notes of Dr Scofeild on this subject:
Quote
To him, under God, was committed upon earth the power of death (Heb 2:14) Cast out of Heaven as his proper sphere and “first estate”, he still has access to God as the “accuser of the brethren” (Rev 12:10), and is permitted a certain power of sifting or testing the self-confident and carnal among the beleivers (Job 1:6-11; Luke 22:31-32; I John 2:1). At the beginning of the great tribulation Satan's privilege of access to God as accuser will be withdrawn (Rev 12:7-12)From the notes to the KJV Bible of Dr Scofield
H you asked :
Quote
Brother, how can he accuse any who are blamless. All who accept Jesus are cleansed of their sins and their sins are remembered no more. The devil cannot accuse the blood bought souls of the saints. Praise God for we are free. We are children of the Almighty God, who sent his Son to save us, and now, the accuser has no power over the blood bought.How can he accuse us? He troubles us in our minds, for the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but are mighty to the pulling down of strongholds – casting down imagination and every high thing that exalts itself above God's Word and bringing into captivity every thought to Him, to be conformed to the mind of Christ.
I also believe that – whether through the avenue of our troubled minds and the temptations we suffer – or by some other means permitted of God (which I do not claim to know) – that he has a certain access to the ear of God to the intent of accusing us, even as Dr Scofield suggests in his notes.
So that he is not without some influence in Heaven presently – albeit only a token influence of being a sounding brass or a tinkling symbol – trying to create discord in God's great symphony of salvation.IMHO
Dear Malcolm,You are correct in that the devil still has power. What has been destroyed is his power over all who
believe in Christ. Now, those who do not believe in Christ are still under the control of the satan. Now, satan still will temp the saints, but if you read scripture, you will see we have victory over in through Christ. Rebuke the devil and he will flee.When our Lord Jesus lived a life without sin and was put to death sinless, he defeated death. For satan held the souls of men ransom because men could not be freed because of sin. Jesus bought the souls back with his innocent blood. And Jesus went into death and took the keys of death and hell from the devil and set the righteous dead souls free. Now all who die in Christ do not die, but go to be with him. That is why Jesus said all who beleive in him will never die.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 10 2006,00:16) Hi H,
If the accuser of the brethren is powerless
why would you want to continue that work?Are you so insecure that you cannot accept
the notion of being imperfect or fallible?You make some good points
but they are so dressed in contentionis is hard to take you seriously
Nick, you are putting words into my mouth. Where did I say the devil was powerless. I said that he was no longer in heaven and that he can no longer stand before the throne of God and accuse the saints. That is the limit of what I said basically. So why are you adding to my words? Wait, that is what you do best.When did Satan loose his right to ascend to heaven and accuse us?
I thought he was still there until Michael stands up and boots him out in revelation 12:7
Read what God's Word says. When did satan lose the ability to accuse the saints and how is it the saints overcome him?
Rev. 12:0 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Read what the Words says. They overcame him how? By the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony.
How can satan accuse a believer if the believer is innocent. We are innocent children. All who are born again have been forgiven and the sins are no more. Christ went to the cross once to pay for the sins of all for all time. And all who believe this and are under the blood of the lamb are innocent and the accuser cannot accuse that which is found innocent in the eyes of God. Can satan accuse Christ? God forbid, so what makes you think he has the power to accuse those who are covered by the blood of Christ. Read the Word of God and believe.
Hi H,
Men are sensitive beings and inclined to anxiety and doubts, arrows from the accuser.
1Jn 3
” 20For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.21Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.”
Hi H,
You say
“How can satan accuse a believer if the believer is innocent. “Was Jesus innocent?
Satan used many FALSE accusers to cause his worldly condemnation and even his death.
Innocence is not protection against accusations.Nick, you sound like a spokesman for the enemy, not for the Gospel of Christ. How can you call yourself a believer and not know these things? Just whom do you serve Nick? Nick, open you heart and be born again. Ask Jesus into your heart and to forgive your sin.
Jesus was innocent. And he died without sin. It is because he died without sin he defeated death.
Dear Mercy,
Don't you see that all who are saved, did so by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony? This is why the accuser can not accuse the saints any longer, for we have victory through Christ the Lord. Our sins have been forgiven.
Read what it says. Which accused. Past Tense. They overcame him. Past Tense. They loved not their lives. Past tense. All of this is past tense. All who is under the blood overcame the accuser. How, by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony. It is past tense because Jesus is already risen at this time of this prophecy. Salvation was in place.
Romans 10:9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rev. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Hi H,
You continue to say things like
” How can you call yourself a believer and not know these things?”
Your contempt for all your brothers is nauseating.Nick, I am sorry you feel that way, but the thing I will not stand for is someone who says they are a believer, but is more like a deceiver. You have stomped all over this forum as if you are the king of the kings and you know it all. Yet, your doctrine is fool hearty. It is not the gospel of Christ. You don't know what it is to be saved.
The reason you become offended is because the truth is not in you. If the truth was in you, you would see the errs of your ways and repent. Instead, you anger and would rather continue to argue.
You have already been proven for what you are on the forum, and that is not one who you have led many to believe you are to be. Your house is made of cardboard and is built on sand.
What you need to do is ask the Lord to come into your heart Nick.
A fool is known by how much he spreads his foolish words. He has to puff himself up, and make himself feel important, because he is a man of the flesh.
Hi H,
I do not mind too much and am used to it but it cannot be good for you to feel so superior and live in constant judgement over others. You tell us how humble you are but such grace is not apparent to others.Don't think I don't love you Nick, because I do. I just don't know why you spend so much time here if you won't even bother getting saved, born again. If you did this, you would see all things in such a wonderful and beautiful new way. For all things are made new. All you have to do is ask for forgiveness and Jesus will come into your heart. You will never be the same and you will know that the accuser has not power over you.
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