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Quote (t8 @ Feb. 02 2010,21:14) It's called scripture. Jesus is certainly special because he is the messiah and the son of God. God made all things through him and for him as it is written. He is the head and has pre-eminence. He is the image of the invisible God. No one else fits that bill. God is invisible and Jesus is the full expression of God in bodily form. Whereas everyone else reflects in part.
So yes he is special BD.
Under God's authority there has to be someone who is higher than all with the exception of God, unless God decided to exalt a number of persons to the same highest level. In Egypt the highest was Joseph with the exception of Pharaoh himself.
Scripture tells us that the head of man is Christ and the head of Christ is God. I am afraid that no other prophet gets a mention in all this because a true prophet of God is a servant and Jesus is the son.
Listen to the parable of the tenants.
Matthew 21:33-40
33″Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35″The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37Last of all, he sent his son to them. 'They will respect my son,' he said.38″But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40″Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”
Why is Jesus different to all the other prophets? Because he is not a servant of the Father but the son.
This is what you seem to deny, yet they are Jesus own words. And yes that makes Jesus special over all the other prophets. Of course it is up to you and you alone whether you decide to believe God's testimony.
1 John 5:9
We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.1 John 5:10
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.Quote He is the image of the invisible God. No one else fits that bill. Not according to Scripture:
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 1:26-28Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Genesis 9:5-7In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2 Corinthians 4:3-5Do you see what I am saying? You also say everything was made for Christ but once again look:
Genesis 1:27-29 (King James Version)
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Now, who did God make the earth for? And where does the scripture say that Mankind only reflects in part?
God gave Mankind full authority and dominion and yes Jesus was anointed to the highest degree a person can obtain and I have never disputed that, have I?
I'm just trying to make you understand that Son=Anointed otherwise what would sons of God mean?
The fact is we believe the same thing except you are attached to the semantics.
like ED, he must say that God is YHVH if you say YHWH he says it's not God. He says that “I am” is Satan. He is into semantics and number values but not facts. You know that if the scripture is interpreted “I am that I am” or “I will be what I will be” The point is it is God doing the talking but ED says “I am ” is Satan.
What do you thingk is important to Jesus, that you do the will of the Father or you call him lord or son?
Again you missed the point completely. He is the express image of God the fullness of the Deity or God's nature in bodily form. We do not have a full measure or reflect the invisible God in full.
Think of it like this. If we were prisms and God is like light, then without light, we have no glory of our own. When light passes through a prism it reflects light into visible colour and is glorious. So Christ reflects all the colour and I might only reflect green for example. However the complete Church should reflect all the colours and be a fitting bride for the bridegroom.
He is the head BD. It is up to you whether you come under the head or not. Your choice, he is not forcing anyone, but is glad to accept all those who will follow him.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 03 2010,15:29) Again you missed the point completely. He is the express image of God the fullness of the Deity or God's nature in bodily form. We do not have a full measure or reflect the invisible God in full. Think of it like this. If we were prisms and God is like light, then without light, we have no glory of our own. When light passes through a prism it reflects light into visible colour and is glorious. So Christ reflects all the colour and I might only reflect green for example. However the complete Church should reflect all the colours and be a fitting bride for the bridegroom.
He is the head BD. It is up to you whether you come under the head or not. Your choice, he is not forcing anyone, but is glad to accept all those who will follow him.
Jesus said:As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 9:4-6What does this mean?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,09:39) We have the mechanism for divine creation God created the form and gave it function just like a computer program is made an Application and is directed to Execute upon the run command. How exactly do you think a computer program works?
Sorry t8.You dodge AGAIN BD.
What is the MECHANISM, I mean in the same sense that for abiogenesis I can hypotheise quite reasonably that micelles formed from naturally-occurring lipid-like molecules and can hold chemicals in an environment which could produce a replicating molecule because of the sheer number of protected attempts at making one, with the fact that the micelle is acting as a primitive membrane that can discriminate regarding what materials may gain entry to the proto-cell. I won't go on, but this is a speculation that is plausible, even if no where near the status of a theory.
Your turn. Perhaps in another thread, tell me EXACTLY how your Imaginary Friend manipulated NAMED molecules; give me the speculation behind the precise nature of what you mean by a spirit (for example a wave function description of it or whatever describes particles in the spirit world) and especially the description of its interaction with the material world, for example giving the spirit-matter equivalent of a Feynman diagram.
Can you do any of those things, or do you just have analogies that explain nothing?
Stuart
Stu, your mind is to lowly focussed to understand. God is outside his own creation. I cannot explain what is it like out there but suffice to say, I am outside my computer and can create things in cyberspace with it.
I can only use such language as I have never had the privilege of being lifted out of all the dimensions in order to give you a complete hypothesis how it all works.
Perhaps when we die we get to glimpse this as we are no longer tied to these dimensions with our 3 dimensional human suit.
However, my mind can soar higher than the limitations of my body. I suspect however that you are looking for a theory that is on your level and explains this. This is your first error.
The complete truth of how the universe is a product of a creator is far more mind blowing than the understanding that there are billions of galaxies that have billions of stars that have multiple planets that are made up of countless atoms.
So understanding the grandeur of the universe, expect that the one who created all and they way he did it to be even more grandiose.
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2010,19:00) Can you do any of those things, or do you just have analogies that explain nothing?
Yes I can do it on my level.
This web site is just a bunch of code which sends out commands that go to an interpreter to output the desired result.Likewise, it is God who said (commanded) let there be light and there was light.
I can give you a complete breakdown of how my code can create within its realm, but I am not privy to how God does it on his scale.
It is not hard to understand that being outside a dimension means that you can manipulate what is in the lower dimension or realm without those in that realm seeing you do it.
e.g., if a 2 dimensional creature saw me a 3 dimensional creature, he would only see one side of me and he might not understand how I can appear and disappear when in actual fact all I am doing is moving around logically in 3 dimensions.
I take it that you understand that there are multiple dimensions, more than you and I understand?
Apologies, this is a debate between me and BD and he stipulated that no one else is to participate.
I didn't read the title when I replied.Shall I delete these posts BD?
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 03 2010,19:00) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,09:39) We have the mechanism for divine creation God created the form and gave it function just like a computer program is made an Application and is directed to Execute upon the run command. How exactly do you think a computer program works?
Sorry t8.You dodge AGAIN BD.
What is the MECHANISM, I mean in the same sense that for abiogenesis I can hypotheise quite reasonably that micelles formed from naturally-occurring lipid-like molecules and can hold chemicals in an environment which could produce a replicating molecule because of the sheer number of protected attempts at making one, with the fact that the micelle is acting as a primitive membrane that can discriminate regarding what materials may gain entry to the proto-cell. I won't go on, but this is a speculation that is plausible, even if no where near the status of a theory.
Your turn. Perhaps in another thread, tell me EXACTLY how your Imaginary Friend manipulated NAMED molecules; give me the speculation behind the precise nature of what you mean by a spirit (for example a wave function description of it or whatever describes particles in the spirit world) and especially the description of its interaction with the material world, for example giving the spirit-matter equivalent of a Feynman diagram.
Can you do any of those things, or do you just have analogies that explain nothing?
Stuart
STU,What do you mean by “Naturally occuring”? And what do you mean by “attempted”
I think you keep inserting actions without the “How” of it all.
I am strictly saying God makes things “HAPPEN” in the truest sense using Energy to create matter and matter to create energy. I have already explained to you that Consciousness is already inherent in existence if it wasn't you could not be Conscious yourself.
God is a Spirit that causes energy and matter to interact on purpose.
Consider this: When you dream your consciousness can carry out physical ideas within your mind. Now consider diggerent types of remote controls or cell phones. We see that light can do physical things that are invisible to the naked eye. God is called The Father of Lights.
Have you ever seen a laser work and do you know that in regular light it being diffused makes the difference of what it can effect a strong laser can cut right through metal and it is only focused light.
Imagine a Conscious light source that could remotely function at every frequency of light and sound, do you understand. God is The Word(sound) and Light and we are fragments of encased sound and light. Our flesh is simply the construction of Atoms vibrating at a certain rate when that vibration ceases the atoms and molecules start seperating.
I hope this helps.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,00:50) Apologies, this is a debate between me and BD and he stipulated that no one else is to participate.
I didn't read the title when I replied.Shall I delete these posts BD?
No need to delete them but I would like STU to debate in the thread we already have, although I defeated him there we could still continue if he wants with the argument he is presenting here.But we shouldn't allow him to derail us here on this one on one.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,05:06) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,00:50) Apologies, this is a debate between me and BD and he stipulated that no one else is to participate.
I didn't read the title when I replied.Shall I delete these posts BD?
No need to delete them but I would like STU to debate in the thread we already have, although I defeated him there we could still continue if he wants with the argument he is presenting here.But we shouldn't allow him to derail us here on this one on one.
Once again sorry t8. I have invited BD to reply in another thread, but he seems determined to try and defame people just about everywhere.When you say you DEFEATED me, BD, are you saying that, through your lame series of logical fallacies and acceptance of lessons in biology from me, you are now chatting casually with your religious friends boasting about how you are 'defeating' all the atheists and christians and making the world good for the acceptance of allah?
I'd lay money on it.
You can claim what you like about the thread in which you challenged me, but you did not put up a moot and I fail to see on what basis you claim any kind of victory.
I shall continue to refrain from calling people idiot, but you are stretching it. Next time anyone asks you how it's going over there at Heavennet, do be honest won't you, and tell them that you are having your backside kicked from two of little or no god belief, a handful of determined christians, and a numerologist.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Feb. 04 2010,19:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 04 2010,05:06) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 04 2010,00:50) Apologies, this is a debate between me and BD and he stipulated that no one else is to participate.
I didn't read the title when I replied.Shall I delete these posts BD?
No need to delete them but I would like STU to debate in the thread we already have, although I defeated him there we could still continue if he wants with the argument he is presenting here.But we shouldn't allow him to derail us here on this one on one.
Once again sorry t8. I have invited BD to reply in another thread, but he seems determined to try and defame people just about everywhere.When you say you DEFEATED me, BD, are you saying that, through your lame series of logical fallacies and acceptance of lessons in biology from me, you are now chatting casually with your religious friends boasting about how you are 'defeating' all the atheists and christians and making the world good for the acceptance of allah?
I'd lay money on it.
You can claim what you like about the thread in which you challenged me, but you did not put up a moot and I fail to see on what basis you claim any kind of victory.
I shall continue to refrain from calling people idiot, but you are stretching it. Next time anyone asks you how it's going over there at Heavennet, do be honest won't you, and tell them that you are having your backside kicked from two of little or no god belief, a handful of determined christians, and a numerologist.
Stuart
STU,Can we stick to our own thread, please?
I defeated you fair and square on many point sall over the board.
1. I proved that virgin birth was possible and actually did occur in other species.
2. I also showed that virginity and Pregnancy are not mutually exclusive conditions as it can be shown that a person can get pregnant and be a virgin the means by which such occurs is secondary to the fact that it can occur and does.
3. After you made the statement that all people are born atheist and must be taught about God I immediately demonstrated that by your own view that would mean that the first person to learn about God had to come from God i.e. a nonhuman source.
Otherwise how would an Atheist be able to conceive of God and teach about God. In-fact someone born without the knowledge of God wouldn't even be an Atheist because they wouldn't even have a concept of God to not believe in so how was this knowledge first given to a person that could even understand it unless it was given to the person by God at an age where the first person that was taught it could comprehend it?
I defeated you fair and square and now I have done it again on a thread you have no business in.
I haven't defeated Kejonn yet because he is in much worse shape than you he doesn't even believe what he does or doesn't believe. He's really far gone and it's because he turned his back on the truth.
T8
Just because Jesus was called “Son of God” doesn't also make him GOD. David was called GOD's BEGOTTEN Son in Psalm 2:7. Israel was called GOD's first born Son in Exodus 4:22. There are many other examples for GOD's Sons in the Bible.
Is David the begotten son of God?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 05 2010,14:06) Just because Jesus was called “Son of God” doesn't also make him GOD
I agree.Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,17:37) Jesus said: As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 9:4-6What does this mean?
I would assume that he was the light of the world because he was the light and in the world. It appears that he has passed that baton onto his disciples.John 1:9
The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.John 9:5
While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.Matthew 5:13-14
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.So Jesus true disciples are the light of the world because they are still in the world and they have the Spirit of God who shows them all things. Jesus said he wouldn't leave us alone, but sent us the Spirit of Truth from the Father.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 05 2010,13:31) STU, Can we stick to our own thread, please?
I defeated you fair and square on many point sall over the board.
1. I proved that virgin birth was possible and actually did occur in other species.
2. I also showed that virginity and Pregnancy are not mutually exclusive conditions as it can be shown that a person can get pregnant and be a virgin the means by which such occurs is secondary to the fact that it can occur and does.
3. After you made the statement that all people are born atheist and must be taught about God I immediately demonstrated that by your own view that would mean that the first person to learn about God had to come from God i.e. a nonhuman source.
Otherwise how would an Atheist be able to conceive of God and teach about God. In-fact someone born without the knowledge of God wouldn't even be an Atheist because they wouldn't even have a concept of God to not believe in so how was this knowledge first given to a person that could even understand it unless it was given to the person by God at an age where the first person that was taught it could comprehend it?
I defeated you fair and square and now I have done it again on a thread you have no business in.
I haven't defeated Kejonn yet because he is in much worse shape than you he doesn't even believe what he does or doesn't believe. He's really far gone and it's because he turned his back on the truth.
Please see reply in the appropriate thread.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 05 2010,19:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ Feb. 03 2010,17:37) Jesus said: As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 9:4-6What does this mean?
I would assume that he was the light of the world because he was the light and in the world. It appears that he has passed that baton onto his disciples.John 1:9
The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.John 9:5
John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.Matthew 5:13-14
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden.So Jesus true disciples are the light of the world because they are still in the world and they have the Spirit of God who shows them all things. Jesus said he wouldn't leave us alone, but sent us the Spirit of Truth from the Father.
I agree!You know it's weird because sometimes I forget we pretty much believe the same thing, there are only a few issues.
One is the word lord does not mean God as you know so when I say that Only God/ALLAH is my Lord it is because the LORD GOD is ONE LORD He owns everything.
Jesus turned his disciples that God gave him over to God and stated they could go to God directly because since they now know the Father, The Father loved them Himself.
John 17:6-15 (New King James Version)
Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them. 11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept;and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.John 16:25-27 (King James Version)
25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
27For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,21:00) God CREATED man in his image. God didn't create Christ in his image.
Christ is the image of the invisible God. He is the fullness of deity in bodily form.
We are not THE image and we are not the fullness. Each of us reflect in part.This is why he is the bridegroom and the Church is his bride.
Hi t8,I've only read the first 4 pages of this debate but one thing I gathered is that you don't believe that the son of God is procreated by God.
Bod asked many times if Jesus was created or procreated and was avoided many times and here, too.
i.e. fullness, image
What is the image of God that man was created?
Have a wonderful day,
David
We were created to be like Christ who is the image of God.
An image of an image is still the image of the original.Quote (t8 @ Nov. 18 2010,09:17) We were created to be like Christ who is the image of God.
An image of an image is still the image of the original.
With paper a copy is the image of the original, but copies of copies can result in fuzzy images. Guess that's why we are told to conform to the image of Christ instead of Peter, John, or Paul to cut down on the number of generations.Quote (seekingtruth @ Nov. 18 2010,12:49) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 18 2010,09:17) We were created to be like Christ who is the image of God.
An image of an image is still the image of the original.
With paper a copy is the image of the original, but copies of copies can result in fuzzy images. Guess that's why we are told to conform to the image of Christ instead of Peter, John, or Paul to cut down on the number of generations.
In the digital world there is no degradation
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