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Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:04) To be in the Form of something does not mean to be the nature of something, is a mannequin the same as a Human?
I am in human form. My form is human and my nature is human.Thankfully I have access to divine nature and one day I will have a spiritual body.
When you have a spiritual body you will be like the angels and Jesus, right?Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:33) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:21) What is so hard about seeing that scripture teaching that Jesus is the son of God and you saying that he isn't. That is what is happening here.
Your stance about old angels does not change that fact.
The scripture teaches that angels are the sons of God, doesn't it?
Yes and that we can be the sons of God.There is a difference between being THE son of God and being a son of God. One is the prototype and the others are like him.
Jesus is THE son of God. This is what you deny is it not?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:43) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:04) To be in the Form of something does not mean to be the nature of something, is a mannequin the same as a Human?
I am in human form. My form is human and my nature is human.Thankfully I have access to divine nature and one day I will have a spiritual body.
When you have a spiritual body you will be like the angels and Jesus, right?
Yes we will be like the angels, spirit beings.Jesus is still the son of God. The firstborn of all creation. The one that God made lord.
Jesus is the prototype. Yes Adam was a prototype. He was the first man. But he was not the firstborn of all creation. He did not come from ancient times and God did not create all things through Adam.
Adam was the prototype in the sphere of man, that is why his sin is passed onto all. Christ was the prototype of all creation. God made all things through him and for him.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:43) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:04) To be in the Form of something does not mean to be the nature of something, is a mannequin the same as a Human?
I am in human form. My form is human and my nature is human.Thankfully I have access to divine nature and one day I will have a spiritual body.
When you have a spiritual body you will be like the angels and Jesus, right?
Yes we will be like the angels, spirit beings.Jesus is still the son of God. The firstborn of all creation. The one that God made lord.
Jesus is the prototype. Yes Adam was a prototype. He was the first man. But he was not the firstborn of all creation. He did not come from ancient times and God did not create all things through Adam.
Adam was the prototype in the sphere of man, that is why his sin is passed onto all. Christ was the prototype of all creation. God made all things through him and for him.
Quote Yes Adam was a prototype. He was the first man. So Christ was not the first in all things?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:59) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:43) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:04) To be in the Form of something does not mean to be the nature of something, is a mannequin the same as a Human?
I am in human form. My form is human and my nature is human.Thankfully I have access to divine nature and one day I will have a spiritual body.
When you have a spiritual body you will be like the angels and Jesus, right?
Yes we will be like the angels, spirit beings.Jesus is still the son of God. The firstborn of all creation. The one that God made lord.
Jesus is the prototype. Yes Adam was a prototype. He was the first man. But he was not the firstborn of all creation. He did not come from ancient times and God did not create all things through Adam.
Adam was the prototype in the sphere of man, that is why his sin is passed onto all. Christ was the prototype of all creation. God made all things through him and for him.
Quote Yes Adam was a prototype. He was the first man. So Christ was not the first in all things?
Christ is greater than Adam.
He became the second Adam because Adam failed all of us.Christ humbled himself and partook of flesh to save us.
God did not make Christ the first human because he existed in the form of God. It was only God's mercy that he sent his son into the world.
So yes, he has first place in all things. Of course we can play word games over this till kingdom come. Such as him not being the first woman or the first sinner or the first gentile, etc.
But let's not do that. He is the firstborn of all creation, the first in authority under God.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:45) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:33) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:21) What is so hard about seeing that scripture teaching that Jesus is the son of God and you saying that he isn't. That is what is happening here.
Your stance about old angels does not change that fact.
The scripture teaches that angels are the sons of God, doesn't it?
Yes and that we can be the sons of God.There is a difference between being THE son of God and being a son of God. One is the prototype and the others are like him.
Jesus is THE son of God. This is what you deny is it not?
What do you mean there is no such capitalization in Hebrew or Greek in those languages that these things were written in son of god is son of god or SON OF GOD is SON OF GODThere really is no lord, Lord and LORD those emphases are put in place in translation according to the translators idea of conveying importance. You do know that right?
By the way, what is the difference between being the son of god and being THE SON OF GOD?
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,10:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:59) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:43) Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,09:29) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,09:04) To be in the Form of something does not mean to be the nature of something, is a mannequin the same as a Human?
I am in human form. My form is human and my nature is human.Thankfully I have access to divine nature and one day I will have a spiritual body.
When you have a spiritual body you will be like the angels and Jesus, right?
Yes we will be like the angels, spirit beings.Jesus is still the son of God. The firstborn of all creation. The one that God made lord.
Jesus is the prototype. Yes Adam was a prototype. He was the first man. But he was not the firstborn of all creation. He did not come from ancient times and God did not create all things through Adam.
Adam was the prototype in the sphere of man, that is why his sin is passed onto all. Christ was the prototype of all creation. God made all things through him and for him.
Quote Yes Adam was a prototype. He was the first man. So Christ was not the first in all things?
Christ is greater than Adam.
He became the second Adam because Adam failed all of us.Christ humbled himself and partook of flesh to save us.
God did not make Christ the first human because he existed in the form of God. It was only God's mercy that he sent his son into the world.
So yes, he has first place in all things. Of course we can play word games over this till kingdom come. Such as him not being the first woman or the first sinner or the first gentile, etc.
But let's not do that. He is the firstborn of all creation, the first in authority under God.
Okay, so you concede that the first in all thing isn't literal, right?Now about Christ being in the form of God, in the ressurection you will be like him so will you also have the form of God and if so wouldn't that mean just being a spirit?
You say that Christ humbled himself? Did he have a choice?
There is the definite article (THE).
e.g., THE theos is not the same as theos.
THE adam is not the same as adam.
Similarly in English we can say the following:
The man made tools.
or
Man made tools.One of those sentences is identifying a particular person and the other is talking of man in general.
Likewise we are sons, but we are not THE son.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,10:26) Okay, so you concede that the first in all thing isn't literal, right? Now about Christ being in the form of God, in the ressurection you will be like him so will you also have the form of God and if so wouldn't that mean just being a spirit?
You say that Christ humbled himself? Did he have a choice?
What you say here is not related to the topic.For what it is worth, Jesus said, “not my will but your will”.
And he is first under God. But he is not all things. That should satisfy your inquiry.Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,10:30) There is the definite article (THE). e.g., THE theos is not the same as theos.
THE adam is not the same as adam.
Similarly in English we can say the following:
The man made tools.
or
Man made tools.One of those sentences is identifying a particular person and the other is talking of man in general.
Likewise we are sons, but we are not THE son.
There is no definite article in the scriptures referring to christ so where did you get that from?Also, please tell me what the difference is?
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,10:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,10:26) Okay, so you concede that the first in all thing isn't literal, right? Now about Christ being in the form of God, in the ressurection you will be like him so will you also have the form of God and if so wouldn't that mean just being a spirit?
You say that Christ humbled himself? Did he have a choice?
What you say here is not related to the topic.For what it is worth, Jesus said, “not my will but your will”.
And he is first under God. But he is not all things. That should satisfy your inquiry.
Okay, so let's get specific to the topic.Was Jesus saying he was the only way to God for all time or was he being specific to the audience he was talking to?
Look up the verses to do with the him being THE son of God. The article is present.
Look up the verse that says “we are gods”. The article is not present.The difference is clearly seen in the above.
When Jesus said “ye are gods”, he was not saying “Ye are THE God”.
Jesus is THE son of God.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,10:46) Okay, so let's get specific to the topic. Was Jesus saying he was the only way to God for all time or was he being specific to the audience he was talking to?
How is this related to the topic?Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,10:53) Look up the verses to do with the him being THE son of God. The article is present.
Look up the verse that says “we are gods”. The article is not present.The difference is clearly seen in the above.
When Jesus said “ye are gods”, he was not saying “Ye are THE God”.
Jesus is THE son of God.
What does THE son of God mean?Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,10:46) Okay, so let's get specific to the topic. Was Jesus saying he was the only way to God for all time or was he being specific to the audience he was talking to?
How is this related to the topic?
The topic is God beyond ChristianityI was referring to the context of what we are currently discussing. I prefer to sign off on the son of God part before moving onto that one. Otherwise we will have too many loose ends. Better to understand fully each others position before moving on to the next step of your challenge.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,10:56) What does THE son of God mean?
Simple speaking I take it to mean the offspring of God although children of God might be a better description of that.“Son of God” has many possible meanings, referring to angels, or humans or mankind.
The son of God is a specific son of God.
Scripture states that he is the prototype son of God.
Romans 8:29;
For them he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.The divine order is as follows:
God > Christ > Man > Woman
The head of Christ is God and the head of the man is Christ.
You seem to be arguing against the head of man (all men) being Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.So the head is Christ. He is the firstborn son of whom we are being conformed into the image of. It is a mystery, but what we will become is to be like him.
He is the prototype son.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 23 2009,11:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,10:56) What does THE son of God mean?
Simple speaking I take it to mean the offspring of God although children of God might be a better description of that.“Son of God” has many possible meanings, referring to angels, or humans or mankind.
The son of God is a specific son of God.
Scripture states that he is the prototype son of God.
Romans 8:29;
For them he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.The divine order is as follows:
God > Christ > Man > Woman
The head of Christ is God and the head of the man is Christ.
You seem to be arguing against the head of man (all men) being Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.So the head is Christ. He is the firstborn son of whom we are being conformed into the image of. It is a mystery, but what we will become is to be like him.
He is the prototype son.
Adam who was the son of God also was made in the image of God, not in the image of Christ according to sthe scripptures, right?So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 1:26-28For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
1 Corinthians 11:6-8Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Colossians 1:14-16Why is it that in 1 Corinthians 11:6-8 it contradicts Genesis 1:26-28 where it says directly “in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them”
It seems what you said about being the prototype does not hold water according to the scriptures
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