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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,07:16) Hi BD,
Jesus died to set men free but you offer more religious bondage and false doctrines?
Set men free to LOVE GOD as their ONE LORD AND GODThe Lord God is ONE LORD.
What bondage? No priests in Islam, no need for intercession in Islam you go to God in Prayer and you pray like Jesus Christ taught us how to pray.
No burdens and false guilt. Most Christians are of the mind thay they are “bad” even after they say Jesus set them free they still call themselves sinners.
God made man and said he was good that is the right belief the children of man is not “born in sin”
Do you believe Nick in the Catholic Doctrine of Original sin?
Hi KW,
Paul was not a sinner but still endured 'sin in the flesh'.[Rom7]
Not the same thing of course.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,02:36) Hi KW,
Paul was not a sinner but still endured 'sin in the flesh'.[Rom7]
Not the same thing of course.
It is true that before Jesus died and so put the new covenant into effect that we to were doomed to struggled with sin and ask “who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”. But now those that enter the new covenant can like Paul state “I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord”.bodhitharta wrote:
Quote No burdens and false guilt. Most Christians are of the mind thay they are “bad” even after they say Jesus set them free they still call themselves sinners.
If I am guilty of sin then I am guilty of sin no matter whoever claims otherwise even if they claim to be angel from heaven. The only time I am resolved of my guilt is when my ways change and I do not do what should not be done. The changing of my ways is the hope I look forward to.
It sounds to me like you are stating Islam teaches its students what their itching ears want to hear so they continue in their sins.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2009,07:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 16 2009,02:09) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2009,06:40) bodhitharta wrote: Quote Can you tell me exactly why the Quran is wrong?
I have not read it and so do not know if it is true or not but I go by what you say. I have tested what you state and find it is not the same gospel taught by Jesus and his servants nor by the prophets and writers of old. You claim your teaching comes from the Quran.
Does the Quaran promise that those that believe will become “a new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness”?
Does it tell you how to accomplish that goal? That is what the good news of the kingdom of God tells me.
The Roman Catholic Church or many so called Christian sects do not.
This question is more appropriate in the “Other Writings” forum.
(2) Except for those who repent, mend (their lives) hold fast to Allah, and purify their religion as in Allah.s sight: if so they will be (numbered) with the believers. And soon will Allah grant to the believers a reward of immense value.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #146)(6) O ye who believe! follow not Satan's footsteps: if any will follow the footsteps of Satan, he will (but) command what is shameful and wrong: and were it not for the grace and mercy of Allah on you, not one of you would ever have been pure: but Allah doth purify whom He pleases: and Allah is One Who hears and knows (all things).
( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #21)(11) For these, there is hope that Allah will forgive: For Allah doth blot out (sins) and forgive again and again.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #99)(13) Whether ye publish a good deed or conceal it or cover evil with pardon, verily Allah doth blot out (sins) and hath power (in the judgment of values).
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #149)(14) (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #18)(20) Not so do those who show patience and constancy, and work righteousness; for them is forgiveness (of sins) and a great reward.
( سورة هود , Hud, Chapter #11, Verse #11)Thank you for your answer.
I do not see faith mentioned, so does the Quran expect you to be created anew though human effort?
In order to have faith you must believe it is possible to stop sinning. Does the Quran teach such a belief?
(169) Those who do wish for the (things of) the Hereafter, and strive therefor with all due striving, and have faith,- they are the ones whose striving is acceptable (to Allah..
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #19)(95) If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female – and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #124)(162) Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #97)(167) So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), “Follow the ways of Abraham the True in faith, and he joined not gods with Allah.”
( سورة النحل , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #123)(96) Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend.
( سورة النساء , An-Nisa, Chapter #4, Verse #125)(11) But those who have faith and work righteousness, they are companions of the Garden: Therein shall they abide (For ever).
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #82)27) Then do ye remember Me; I will remember you. Be grateful to Me, and reject not faith.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #152)(1) As to those who reject faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #6)(13) Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject faith.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #90(5) How can ye reject the faith in Allah.- seeing that ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #28)(168) It may be that your Lord may (yet) show Mercy unto you; but if ye revert (to your sins), We shall revert (to Our punishments): And we have made Hell a prison for those who reject (all faith).
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #8)Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2009,08:07) bodhitharta wrote: Quote No burdens and false guilt. Most Christians are of the mind thay they are “bad” even after they say Jesus set them free they still call themselves sinners.
If I am guilty of sin then I am guilty of sin no matter whoever claims otherwise even if they claim to be angel from heaven. The only time I am resolved of my guilt is when my ways change and I do not do what should not be done. The changing of my ways is the hope I look forward to.
It sounds to me like you are stating Islam teaches its students what their itching ears want to hear so they continue in their sins.
Hi KW,
Are you accusing yourself or is this guilt problem from on high?1Jn3.19-20
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,03:11) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2009,08:07) bodhitharta wrote: Quote No burdens and false guilt. Most Christians are of the mind thay they are “bad” even after they say Jesus set them free they still call themselves sinners.
If I am guilty of sin then I am guilty of sin no matter whoever claims otherwise even if they claim to be angel from heaven. The only time I am resolved of my guilt is when my ways change and I do not do what should not be done. The changing of my ways is the hope I look forward to.
It sounds to me like you are stating Islam teaches its students what their itching ears want to hear so they continue in their sins.
Hi KW,
Are you accusing yourself or is this guilt problem from on high?1Jn3.19-20
I am not seeing the link you are proposing between accusing and being guilty since a person can be guilty whether or not they are accused of being so and one can be innocent even if accused of being guilty.Entry for guilt at thefreedictionary.com on November 15, 2009 reads:
Quote 1 a. The fact of being responsible for the commission of an offense.
There are two ways to feel guilt.
Entry for guilt at thefreedictionary.com on November 15, 2009 reads:
Quote 2
a. Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.
b. Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing.Definition 2 a. sounds like godly sorrow as it leads to change while 2 b. sounds like worldly sorrow and is therefore a snare set by the Accuser.
It sounds to me like Islam is trying to teach its adherents the third way and thus feel no guilt for their sins. That would be a psychopath. Many Christian and Jewish sects do the same thing. May God rescue me from such teachings.
Wikipedia entry for Psychopathy on November 15, 2009 reads:
Quote Psychopaths gain satisfaction through antisocial behavior, and do not experience shame, guilt, or remorse for their actions
Hi KW,
Those who have bathed only need wash their feet.[Jn13]
Freedom includes freedom from the heavy burden of guilt.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,03:30) Hi KW,
Those who have bathed only need wash their feet.[Jn13]
Freedom includes freedom from the heavy burden of guilt.
Are you stating that Jesus taught his disciples to be psychopaths? Perhaps you need to expand on what you are stating so not to give that impression.Hi KW,
The Spirit of God does not lead men to sin.
As they learn to walk in the Spirit their ways are changed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,08:34) Hi KW,
The Spirit of God does not lead men to sin.
As they learn to walk in the Spirit their ways are changed.
I agree!This is what the Quran teaches also.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,03:34) Hi KW,
The Spirit of God does not lead men to sin.
As they learn to walk in the Spirit their ways are changed.
That is correct as it works through giving its possessors a “Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.” which is otherwise called called “godly sorrow” or “guilt”.2 Corinthians 7:10-11(KJV) reads:
Quote For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,08:54) Hi BD,
The quran does not lead men to Jesus as the source of the Spirit for men[Jn7]
Neither does Jesus:John 3:6-8 (King James Version)
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
God gives to whom He pleases.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,09:05) Hi BD,
Indeed the Spirit proceeds from God but access to it is through Jesus.[Jn7.37f]
That's not what the scripture says, Nick.John 3
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Is this scripture accurate? Yes or No?
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 16 2009,08:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,03:34) Hi KW,
The Spirit of God does not lead men to sin.
As they learn to walk in the Spirit their ways are changed.
That is correct as it works through giving its possessors a “Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong.” which is otherwise called called “godly sorrow” or “guilt”.2 Corinthians 7:10-11(KJV) reads:
Quote For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.
KWI still agree with what I believe Nick is saying and that is once you have repented your sinful nature should be short circuited leaving no reason to feel guilt as one automatically starts to do works that meet repentence.
Suppose someone was thinking about stealing but the Holy Spirit made them aware and gave them strength to overcome the temptation why should or would they then feel guilty.
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Revelation 12:9-11We need not feel guilty for making mistakes and those who willfully sin feel no guilt for it anyway.
Our repentence is the overthrowing of our guilt because we have faith and trust in God even through Christ that the Spirit of God within us should not be Brought to Grief for if Christ is not guilty and you were baptised with his baptism how is it he comes up spotless and without blame and yet you remain under the cover of guilt?
Hi KW,
God arranges the circumstances of the lives of his children and does not allow them to be tested beyond grace and we can also pray against hard testing.[Mt6]But if our consciences have become corrupt and now accuse us day and night as in scruples and we listen to it we cannot listen to the constant encouragement of our God who is greater than our hearts
Strengthen those knees..walk in straight paths..{heb12]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 16 2009,12:25) Hi BD,
INdeed .
Become reborn from above through Jesus and you will experience this wind.
I have already told you that I was born again and went through Jesus Christ as I was always a Christian and my Mother is a Christian minister. The Fact is God showed me and taught me about Islam and heard the voice of truth in it.I was baptised in to Christ(Full immersion) and I was anointed with holy water from the river Jordan in Israel. I come from a very spiritual Christian family with very strong roots. When I go to a family reunion it is a truly a religious retreat.
God led me to Islam and opened up my understanding. That's why I say that I am a Christian Muslim but I say it more as a continuum and not a combination. Islam is the religion of Abraham he fully Submitted(Muslim) to Jehovah who is ALLAH.
All Jews were told to submit and they continued to turn away from God therefore Jesus said:
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Matthew 21:42-44Now look what has happened to the Christian Church and its original truth and how man has once again decided to worship the created over the Creator:
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Matthew 21:42-44This is Islam, PURE MONOTHEISM no partners with God no triple gods no mother of God no Humanizing God. GOD is GOD
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