Bloodless atonement

[NickHassan]

Hi POK,
Without blood there is no forgiveness of sins.[Heb9.22]
The new covenant is in the blood of Jesus[Heb10.29]

[peace2all]

why the need for his blood,. because the bible says so and is best to accept god's word than to try to disprove or deny his word.

[peace2all]

it is what gave us a new law a new covenant with god. its all in the bible. from adam up until jesus death, there was a old law a old covenant. now after jesus had done the will of his father completely we all are under a new law a new covenant. one that gives us hope and salvation and forgiveness. a way into god's kingdom again when it is established on earth as it is in heaven. it is now aone group, all man. not two seperate peoples, jews and non jews as what it was in old

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood?

This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:06)

it is what gave us a new law a new covenant with god. its all in the bible. from adam up until jesus death, there was a old law a old covenant. now after jesus had done the will of his father completely we all are under a new law a new covenant. one that gives us hope and salvation and forgiveness. a way into god's kingdom again when it is established on earth as it is in heaven. it is now aone group, all man. not two seperate peoples, jews and non jews as what it was in old

gentiles were always welcome to join with the Jews hence the word “conversion”.

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:11)

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:06) it is what gave us a new law a new covenant with god. its all in the bible. from adam up until jesus death, there was a old law a old covenant. now after jesus had done the will of his father completely we all are under a new law a new covenant. one that gives us hope and salvation and forgiveness. a way into god's kingdom again when it is established on earth as it is in heaven. it is now aone group, all man. not two seperate peoples, jews and non jews as what it was in old gentiles were always welcome to join with the Jews hence the word “conversion”.

it was always seperate though, it was god's chosen and the everyone else .

now its all one all mankind. noone is a stranger to another, we are all god's sons now.

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10)

Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest.

that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it.

that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law.

a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions.

if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right.

there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind.

none at all

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:11) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:06) it is what gave us a new law a new covenant with god. its all in the bible. from adam up until jesus death, there was a old law a old covenant. now after jesus had done the will of his father completely we all are under a new law a new covenant. one that gives us hope and salvation and forgiveness. a way into god's kingdom again when it is established on earth as it is in heaven. it is now aone group, all man. not two seperate peoples, jews and non jews as what it was in old gentiles were always welcome to join with the Jews hence the word “conversion”. it was always seperate though, it was god's chosen and the everyone else . now its all one all mankind. noone is a stranger to another, we are all god's sons now.

No you are incorrect once a person converted to Judaism he was a Jew.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all

Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:51)

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs

you worship another god and have a different messiah.

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:51)

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs

you do not use scriptures talking about jesus ransom and its meaning and purpose.

so you speak of nothing to add to the discussion.

matthew 20:28 – just as the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life a ranson for many.

wow look at that i used acrpiture that pertains to the topic, not very hard to do unless you have no truth to your own belief.

ephesians 1:7 – in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace.

look at that another. wow.

1 timothy 2:5,6 – for there is one god and one mediator between god and men, jesus christ who gve himself a ransom for all

wow look BOD notice i use scriptures that actually talk about our topic

1 john 4:9,10 – in this love of god was manifested toward us, that god has sent his only begotten son into the world tht we might live through him. in this is love, not that we loved god but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitation for our sins.

again BOD this scripture is in reference to topic tallks about the topic in specific words.

hebrews 10:10 – by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of christ once for all

colosians 1 :13,14 – he has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the son of his love . in whom we have redemption through hid blood, the forgiveness of sins

hebrews 9:14 – how much more shall the blood of christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without a spot to god

so, really i don't know nothing huh, 4 months so that must mean i'm stupid huh. look at those scriptures and read them for what they are. they are the truth to this topic.

all scriptures talk about jesus, his ransom and what it did for us. nothing else. they are not some off topic scriptures with no reference or topical meaning as yours do.

looks like it has been a good 4 months, god giving me his holy spirit to find and understand his word, i have been praying every night for just that for the whole 4 months

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,16:41)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:51) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs you do not use scriptures talking about jesus ransom and its meaning and purpose. so you speak of nothing to add to the discussion. matthew 20:28 – just as the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life a ranson for many. wow look at that i used acrpiture that pertains to the topic, not very hard to do unless you have no truth to your own belief. ephesians 1:7 – in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace. look at that another. wow. 1 timothy 2:5,6 – for there is one god and one mediator  between god and men, jesus christ who gve himself  a ransom for all wow look BOD notice i use scriptures that actually talk about our topic 1 john 4:9,10 – in this love of god was manifested toward us, that god has sent his only begotten son into the world  tht we might live through him. in this is love, not that we loved god but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitation for our sins. again BOD this scripture is in reference to topic tallks about the topic in specific words. hebrews 10:10 – by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of christ once for all colosians 1 :13,14 – he has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the son of his love . in whom we have redemption through hid blood, the forgiveness of sins hebrews 9:14 – how much more shall the blood of christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without a spot to god so, really i don't know nothing huh, 4 months so that must mean i'm stupid huh. look at those scriptures and read them for what they are. they are the truth to this topic. all scriptures talk about jesus, his ransom and what it did for us. nothing else. they are not some off topic scriptures with no reference or topical meaning as yours do. looks like it has been a good 4 months,  god giving me his holy spirit to find and understand his word, i have been praying every night for just that for the whole 4 months

Whether Christ was crucufied or not you still have to obey God, right?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Why do you refuse to?

[princess of the king]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10)

Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood?

bodhitharta states:

Quote

This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest.

in a prior post you refer to mat 14.50-52, the man that fled you feel he was this jesus. this impression stood out a bit to me, keep quiet about it, though.

you are stating the koran is correct by the word 'if'.

prayer is needed.

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 08 2009,11:46)

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,16:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:51) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs you do not use scriptures talking about jesus ransom and its meaning and purpose. so you speak of nothing to add to the discussion. matthew 20:28 – just as the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life a ranson for many. wow look at that i used acrpiture that pertains to the topic, not very hard to do unless you have no truth to your own belief. ephesians 1:7 – in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace. look at that another. wow. 1 timothy 2:5,6 – for there is one god and one mediator  between god and men, jesus christ who gve himself  a ransom for all wow look BOD notice i use scriptures that actually talk about our topic 1 john 4:9,10 – in this love of god was manifested toward us, that god has sent his only begotten son into the world  tht we might live through him. in this is love, not that we loved god but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitation for our sins. again BOD this scripture is in reference to topic tallks about the topic in specific words. hebrews 10:10 – by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of christ once for all colosians 1 :13,14 – he has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the son of his love . in whom we have redemption through hid blood, the forgiveness of sins hebrews 9:14 – how much more shall the blood of christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without a spot to god so, really i don't know nothing huh, 4 months so that must mean i'm stupid huh. look at those scriptures and read them for what they are. they are the truth to this topic. all scriptures talk about jesus, his ransom and what it did for us. nothing else. they are not some off topic scriptures with no reference or topical meaning as yours do. looks like it has been a good 4 months,  god giving me his holy spirit to find and understand his word, i have been praying every night for just that for the whole 4 months Whether Christ was crucufied or not you still have to obey God, right?

your not doing that by denying jesus and using your quran to call god a liar.

u ne
ed to use the holy scriptures ,the whole bible and take jesus into your heart.

you cannot by having a different messiah and a different god and a different book.

its not enough to say i love god and thus not do all the things he asks of you.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 09 2009,04:42)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 08 2009,11:46) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,16:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:51) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs you do not use scriptures talking about jesus ransom and its meaning and purpose. so you speak of nothing to add to the discussion. matthew 20:28 – just as the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life a ranson for many. wow look at that i used acrpiture that pertains to the topic, not very hard to do unless you have no truth to your own belief. ephesians 1:7 – in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace. look at that another. wow. 1 timothy 2:5,6 – for there is one god and one mediator  between god and men, jesus christ who gve himself  a ransom for all wow look BOD notice i use scriptures that actually talk about our topic 1 john 4:9,10 – in this love of god was manifested toward us, that god has sent his only begotten son into the world  tht we might live through him. in this is love, not that we loved god but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitation for our sins. again BOD this scripture is in reference to topic tallks about the topic in specific words. hebrews 10:10 – by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of christ once for all colosians 1 :13,14 – he has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the son of his love . in whom we have redemption through hid blood, the forgiveness of sins hebrews 9:14 – how much more shall the blood of christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without a spot to god so, really i don't know nothing huh, 4 months so that must mean i'm stupid huh. look at those scriptures and read them for what they are. they are the truth to this topic. all scriptures talk about jesus, his ransom and what it did for us. nothing else. they are not some off topic scriptures with no reference or topical meaning as yours do. looks like it has been a good 4 months,  god giving me his holy spirit to find and understand his word, i have been praying every night for just that for the whole 4 months Whether Christ was crucufied or not you still have to obey God, right? your not doing that by denying jesus and using your quran to call god a liar. u need to use the holy scriptures ,the whole bible and take jesus into your heart. you cannot by having a different messiah and a different god and a different book. its not enough to say i love god and thus not do all the things he asks of you.

God never told me to believe Jesus was crucified. Show me the scripture that even says God says he will send his son to be crucified.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Read the bible.
It is written.

God sent His Son and those left in charge of His vineyard killed him.

[peace2all]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 09 2009,05:07)

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 09 2009,04:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 08 2009,11:46) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,16:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:51) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs you do not use scriptures talking about jesus ransom and its meaning and purpose. so you speak of nothing to add to the discussion. matthew 20:28 – just as the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life a ranson for many. wow look at that i used acrpiture that pertains to the topic, not very hard to do unless you have no truth to your own belief. ephesians 1:7 – in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace. look at that another. wow. 1 timothy 2:5,6 – for there is one god and one mediator  between god and men, jesus christ who gve himself  a ransom for all wow look BOD notice i use scriptures that actually talk about our topic 1 john 4:9,10 – in this love of god was manifested toward us, that god has sent his only begotten son into the world  tht we might live through him. in this is love, not that we loved god but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitation for our sins. again BOD this scripture is in reference to topic tallks about the topic in specific words. hebrews 10:10 – by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of christ once for all colosians 1 :13,14 – he has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the son of his love . in whom we have redemption through hid blood, the forgiveness of sins hebrews 9:14 – how much more shall the blood of christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without a spot to god so, really i don't know nothing huh, 4 months so that must mean i'm stupid huh. look at those scriptures and read them for what they are. they are the truth to this topic. all scriptures talk about jesus, his ransom and what it did for us. nothing else. they are not some off topic scriptures with no reference or topical meaning as yours do. looks like it ha s been a good 4 months,  god giving me his holy spirit to find and understand his word, i have been praying every night for just that for the whole 4 months Whether Christ was crucufied or not you still have to obey God, right? your not doing that by denying jesus and using your quran to call god a liar. u need to use the holy scriptures ,the whole bible and take jesus into your heart. you cannot by having a different messiah and a different god and a different book. its not enough to say i love god and thus not do all the things he asks of you. God never told me to believe Jesus was crucified. Show me the scripture that even says God says he will send his son to be crucified.

it cleary does say he was killed and his blood was a ransom to all, to have sin not being dominion over us no longer. opening up that passsage way to god to salvation again a path to god's kingdom. forgiveness of sin.

i speak not of him being sent for the sole purpose of death. but by it it did these things for YOU and ME and ALL.

he was sent to preach and teach and show us god's words and works needed to be done by those who want to seek him.

he came to do his fathers will no matter what it might have turned out to be.

he i'm sure did not want to suffer and be stoned and spit on and hurt and eventually murded. i am not saying that.

the bible clearly says that by his blood we have been cleansed, we have been sanctified. his death did have meaning and did do things for us that you just plain reject even with scriptual proof. he had that sin dominion lifted off of man and we now can have god's forgiveness. it is not what it was from adam down to before jesus died.

jesus cried out to his father ( those who believe the trinity must see this tht he was not crying out to himself) that why have you left me abandoned me when he was put upon the living tree to die.

he did his fathers will with complete devotion and without question.

so your question is not even relevant. what is, is that the bible shows by his blood being shed it had done what i've shown you in numerous scriptures.

it wasn't meaningless or not needed as you say.

the bible says the opposite.

[peace2all]

i showed you scriptures what we were talking about which was his blood ransom did what it did. you deny it does. yuo are trying to argue something that wasn't an arguement before or implied

i never ever said that he was just sent to be killed.

i showed you what you deny and that is christ ransom did cleanse us and sanctify us and shed the dominiom of sin over us. it opened a way to god for forgiveness of sins if u repent your wrongful ways/ now we can just worry about worshiping him and doing his work through spiritual things for that what is gonig to give us the salvation to god's kingdom. but we must do all the bible says of us and follow jesus as example. one cannot just do some thing but not all.

the works of flesh or works of flesh cannot save oneself as the bible says

[bodhitharta]

Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 09 2009,07:39)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 09 2009,05:07) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 09 2009,04:42) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 08 2009,11:46) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,16:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:51) Quote (peace2all @ Dec. 07 2009,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,14:10) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,12:23) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 07 2009,11:26) Quote (princess of the king @ Dec. 07 2009,10:46) Quote For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: Jeremiah 7:21-23 God did not command it so how could it have been neccessary? I have shown you with the scriptures that not only is blood sacrifice not neccessary it was not even commanded. Exo 12:5  a lamb, a perfect one, a male, a son of a year, let be to you; from the sheep or from the goats ye do take it . Exo 12:12  and I have passed over through the land of Egypt during this night, and have smitten every first-born in the land of Egypt, from man even unto beast, and on all the gods of Egypt I do judgments; I am Jehovah. Exo 12:13  `And the blood hath become a sign for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the blood, and have passed over you, and a plague is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt I am so glad you brought this up because you have given me more proof because God says: Every thing that openeth the matrix in all flesh, which they bring unto the LORD, whether it be of men or beasts, shall be thine: nevertheless the firstborn of man shalt thou surely redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts shalt thou redeem. Numbers 18:14-16 The firstborn must be redeemed therefore God would never sacrifice the firstborn of a virgin. You have totally proved my point but it was the firstborn of those against God that were killed so If Jesus is the begotten son of God through a Virgin he could not be a Sacrifice according to the scriptures. Numbers 3:13 (King James Version) 13Because all the firstborn are mine; for on the day that I smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt I hallowed unto me all the firstborn in Israel, both man and beast: mine shall they be: I am the LORD Exo 12:13  `And the BLOOD hath become a SIGN for you on the houses where ye are , and I have seen the BLOOD, and have PASSED OVER you, and a PLAGUE is not on you for destruction in My smiting in the land of Egypt so why the need for the blood? This makes the Quran even more exact because if some blood must be spilled to protect the Firstborn that would mean that instead of Jesus dying on the cross someone else did as Jesus is the first born he cannot be put to death, he must be redeemed. according to the scriptures he was born to be a Priest in the order of Melchezidek and when a High priest dies he is no longer high priest. that in no way pertains to christ and his ransom at all. that has nothing to do with any of it. that was something completly different and at a different time under different covenant and law. a new one was forged by jesus and god by his father having him come here and spread god's word and to show us god's will in actions. if that scripture actualyl referenced jesus and his ranson and suffering for mankind then i nad then it said what you put then i'd say hey wow maybe your right. there it says in scripture jesus ransom not needed only blood of animal or whatever… but it doesn't and has nothing to do with jesus and his purpose and his ransom for mankind. none at all Then keep on trampling the blood underneath your hoofs you do not use scriptures talking about jesus ransom and its meaning and purpose. so you speak of nothing to add to the discussion. matthew 20:28 – just as the son of man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life a ranson for many. wow look at that i used acrpiture that pertains to the topic, not very hard to do unless you have no truth to your own belief. ephesians 1:7 – in him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of his grace. look at that another. wow. 1 timothy 2:5,6 – for there is one god and one mediator  between god and men, jesus christ who gve himself  a ransom for all wow look BOD notice i use scriptures that actually talk about our topic 1 john 4:9,10 – in this love of god was manifested toward us, that god has sent his only begotten son into the world  tht we might live through him. in this is love, not that we loved god but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitation for our sins. again BOD this scripture is in reference to topic tallks about the topic in specific words. hebrews 10:10 – by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of christ once for all colosians 1 :13,14 – he has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the son of his love . in whom we have redemption through hid blood, the forgiveness of sins hebrews 9:14 – how much more shall the blood of christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself without a spot to god so, really i don't know nothing huh, 4 months so that must mean i'm stupid huh. look at those scriptures and read them for what they are. they are th e truth to this topic. all scriptures talk about jesus, his ransom and what it did for us. nothing else. they are not some off topic scriptures with no reference or topical meaning as yours do. looks like it has been a good 4 months,  god giving me his holy spirit to find and understand his word, i have been praying every night for just that for the whole 4 months Whether Christ was crucufied or not you still have to obey God, right? your not doing that by denying jesus and using your quran to call god a liar. u need to use the holy scriptures ,the whole bible and take jesus into your heart. you cannot by having a different messiah and a different god and a different book. its not enough to say i love god and thus not do all the things he asks of you. God never told me to believe Jesus was crucified. Show me the scripture that even says God says he will send his son to be crucified. it cleary does say he was killed and his blood was a ransom to all, to have sin not being dominion over us no longer. opening up that passsage way to god to salvation again a path to god's kingdom. forgiveness of sin. i speak not of him being sent for the sole purpose of death. but by it it did these things for YOU and ME  and ALL. he was sent to preach and teach and show us god's words and works needed to be done by those who want to seek him. he came to do his fathers will no matter what it might have turned out to be. he i'm sure did not want to suffer and be stoned and spit on and hurt and eventually murded. i am not saying that. the bible clearly says that by his blood we have been cleansed, we have been sanctified. his death did have meaning and did do things for us that you just plain reject even with scriptual proof.  he had that sin dominion lifted off of man and we now can have god's forgiveness. it is not what it was from adam down to before jesus died. jesus cried out to his father ( those who believe the trinity must see this tht he was not crying out to himself) that why have you left me abandoned me when he was put upon the living tree to die. he did his fathers will with complete devotion and without question. so your question is not even relevant. what is, is that the bible shows by his blood being shed it had done what i've shown you in numerous scriptures. it wasn't meaningless or not needed as you say. the bible says the opposite.

It's not that it was meaningless it simply never happened God saved Jesus

[Author]

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