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for sure u can see the total comfusion among poeple if one says that the holly spirit is another name for the father then Jesus was going to ask the holly spirit for the holly spirit aas a comforter in john really some times we need to be serious.thanks
[email protected]For a true evaluation of Biblical Unitarianism, imo, read:
LETTERS Addressed to Relatives and Friends, Chiefly in reply to arguments in support of the doctrine of the Trinity
By Mary S.B. Dana (Boston: 1845)*Reprinted by CES and can be found at: http://www.truthortradition.com Bookstore
Best $20 I've spent in a long while.
Hi,
This is the BU Jesus
” Who is Jesus Christ?Printer Friendly Version
We believe that Jesus Christ is a completely unique (one of a kind) human being.
Why?
He is the only man ever born by way of God putting a seed in the womb of a virgin (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35). God put a perfect seed in the womb of Mary so that Jesus would be born without the sin nature that every other human being inherited from the First Adam. Therefore, Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God (John 3:16) and the Son of Man (John 5:27).
He is the only man who is called “the Last Adam” (1 Cor. 15:45). As the only-begotten Son of God, Jesus was the genetic equivalent to the first “Son of God,” Adam (Luke 3:38). As the only man born without inherent sin, Jesus was thus the only man equipped to be the Savior and Redeemer of mankind. Romans 5:12-21 is the classic comparison of these two Adams and the respective impact each had on mankind.
He is the only man who had perfect faith in God, and who, by his free will choices to trust God, lived a sinless life, always doing the will of his Father (John 8:29). Jesus was not a robot, programmed to obey God. If so, he could not have been genuinely tempted to sin, just like all men he came to save (Heb. 4:15). The absence of a sin nature was not the reason why Jesus did not sin. We know that because the First Adam also had no sin nature, and he sinned royally.
He is the only man who died as the perfect sacrifice for our sins (Heb. 10:12-14; 1 John 4:10). By his virgin birth, Jesus was the “genetically” perfect sacrifice for the sin of mankind. By his lifelong obedience to God, all the way to his dying breath on the Cross, he became the “behaviorally” perfect sacrifice for the sins of mankind (Heb. 2:17). Thus, he was the complete propitiation for fallen men to be redeemed. [For further study read How can a man atone for the sins of mankind?]
He is the only man God ever raised from the dead in order to confirm that he was who he had said he was—the Son of God (Acts 17:31; Rom. 1:4). The resurrection of Jesus Christ was God keeping His promise to His Son, and also His affirmation to all men that Jesus is “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6). [For further study read Resurrection: The “New Birth” of Jesus Christ.]He is the only man whom God highly exalted as “Lord” and “Head of the Church,” and to whom God has given all authority in heaven and on earth (Dan. 7:13-14; Phil. 2:9; Acts 2:36; Eph. 1:22; Matt. 28:18). As Pharaoh exalted Joseph to his right hand and gave him all authority in Egypt (Gen. 41:37-46), so God has given Jesus functional equality with Himself. Jesus Christ is now God’s “right hand man” (Eph. 1:20), carrying out the work that will eventually restore this fallen world.
He is the only man who is now the Mediator between God and mankind (1 Tim. 2:5). It is Jesus Christ to whom God has given the power to “save to the uttermost” all who call upon his name, because he ever lives to make intercession for us (Heb. 7:25).
He is the only man who will gather together all Christians to meet him “in the air” (1 Thess. 4:17) and give each one a new body like his own (Phil. 3:21). As the promised “seed” of the woman (Gen. 3:15), Jesus Christ will produce fruit after his kind, a race of people living forever.
He is the only man who will one day return to the earth, destroy all evil men (and eventually destroy Satan and his evil spirit cohorts), and rule the earth as King for 1000 years (Rev. 19:11-20:7). At his first coming to the earth to Israel, Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb of God, but he will come again as the Lion of Judah to save his people, Israel, and destroy all God’s enemies.
He is the only man who will raise from the dead every human being who has ever lived (John 5:21, 25). As God has given Jesus “life in himself,” so he will raise up all people.
He is the only man who will judge all men and women of all time (John 5:22, 27). Jesus will righteously judge all people, granting everlasting life to those who deserve it, and annihilating all the wicked (Acts 17:31; John 5:28, 29).
He is the only man who will restore on a new earth the Paradise that the First Adam lost (1 Cor. 15:24-28). As “the Last Adam,” Jesus was God’s Contingency Plan to salvage His original plan that Adam’s disobedience thwarted, that is, a perfect race of people living forever on a perfect earth. Amen. [For further study read Where Did the Idea Originate that Believers Would Live Forever in Heaven?]
He is the only man who is our Savior, our Redeemer, our Mediator, our Lord, our constant Companion, our Best Friend, our Big Brother, the Light of our lives, our Peace, our Joy, and our Mentor in the art of faith.
He is the Lover of our souls, and that is why we love him and confess him as Lord (Rom. 10:9).
Hi Not3,
He is the monogenes Son who was sent into the world
Christ was conceived of the fallen state of Mary, as well as of God.
He was not thus GENETICALLY PERFECT and neither is any lamb chosen for sacrifice
His choice by God as sacrifice was not that he was born perfect but that he did not sin.
His success was because of his utter submission to the indwelling Spirit of God, not his own strength.
He found the source of goodness and power and was used by God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2005,07:17) Hi,
We know that Jesus, as a child, had to learn through the rod and suffering, obedience.
Surely you jest? Was he not without sin? Is disobedience to one's parents not considered sin? Or are you suggesting that Yeshua was beaten for the sake of obedience even though he was not disobedient? I know this post is old, but I hope you don't still hold this view. If you do, then you say Yeshua DID sin, and if so, he could not be the perfect sacrifice.Quote He was not seen as being physically superior and Isaiah suggests even the opposite. He must have been without blemish though to be the paschal lamb of God. Adam did not have that opportunity as he was created adult.
No disagreement here. It has been my contention that his physical side was from his mother, his spiritual side from his Father.Quote His inner vessel was clean though so God filled him with His Spirit. He had no sin. Sin comes from within and defiles a man, as Jesus explained to the Pharisees, who were told to clean the inside of the cup.
How was his inner vessel clean? What made it so? Was he always able to overcome? What gave him this inner strength? From childhood and to the point of the cross? It is easy to answer after his baptism, because we know we have a greater capacity to overcome sin because of the indwelling of the Spirit after our conversion, but what explains his ability to overcome before his baptism? Is his inner vessel was clean, why did you suggest that Yeshua had to be disciplined as a child? Surely you are not suggesting that only adults sin.If you cannot agree that he always had an indwelling of the Holy Spirit, you have a hard time reconciling that before his baptism he was but another Jew born under the Law. As we all know, none perfectly kept the Law as they only had human strength and willpower to overcome.
Quote The unitarian site says that Christ was created at birth so could not exist before then. So they do say he was only a man denying the glory he had as the only begotten Son of God who came in the flesh.
I would think I might depart ways with the BU doctrine here. At least for now. There are too many statements made that Yeshua existed in some form or fashion before his earthly birth. Else, how could he make the statement he made in John 17:5, “with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”?Hi KJ,
So Jesus was a man with SIDES?
Wedo not have them and he was like us??The washing of the word makes some clean.
Jn 15
3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,18:37) Hi KJ,
So Jesus was a man with SIDES?
Wedo not have them and he was like us??The washing of the word makes some clean.
Jn 15
3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Nick,Not clear cut discernible sides, but do you not have attributes of both of you parents? was the conception merely a miracle because of the Holy Spirit, and therefore were the only genes inherited by Yeshua strictly from his mother? If so, he would have been almost a clone of his mother. What would come from his Father's side of the conception? The Holy Spirit is spirit alone, nothing human about it.
What does John 3 mean to you? What was Yeshua telling Nicodemus? Did Yeshua have to be born again as well? Answer that question and we can clear up our differences I think.
Hi KJ,
The result is a MAN.
The process is poorly understood.
Mary was not cloned and neither was she a surrogate mother.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,18:38) Hi KJ,
When does God ascribe sin to a child?
I could ask you the same question. Yeshua often used children in his teachings but we do not know their age. Since we have not biblical reference any answer would be speculation.Did you know that the Christadelphians reject this: “Reject 22. That 'heathens,' idiots, pagans, and very young children will be saved.”
Basically, they are saying that very young children, if they die, will just know death only. They will go to the ground and just cease to know, and will not experience the resurrection. I guess I can accept to this to some extent over the concept that they will “burn in hell”.
But they makes me sad nonetheless, because you could tell that Yeshua loved children. How could he not be reflecting his Father's character in this? To think that children will merely go to the ground and cease to exist is a harsh view.
This is another of their beliefs (they seem to have much in common with BUs):
Baptism – That baptism is total immersion in water of an adult who knows the Gospel followed by a life of discipleship. Baptism is a symbolic death in water and a 'resurrection' to a new life as a son or daughter of God with new brothers and sisters in the family of believers. This symbolic death and resurrection enables disciples to have faith that even if they literally die, they will be raised from death when Jesus returns and have a hope of eternal life in the Kingdom of God.
What is their definition of an adult? I cannot find it on their site. But this goes hand in hand with another rejection of theirs.
Reject 30. That baptism is not necessary to salvation.
So basically they are saying that a 10 year old child, who we both know is not adult, cannot be saved. I find this to be harsh and unbiblical because no where do we see that age was a requirement for conversion.
These beliefs can be found at http://www.thechristadelphians.org/.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2007,18:56) Hi KJ,
The result is a MAN.
The process is poorly understood.
Mary was not cloned and neither was she a surrogate mother.
But you don't seem to know the process either, because you are not forthcoming with an explanation.BTW, you did not answer my question about John 3. Did Yeshua have to be born again, just as he told Nicodemus?
Hi,
The BU understanding was that Christ began life by conception in Mary and was ever like any other man, an anointed man, a prophet of God.
I believe he was the monogenes son who emptied himself, was sent into the world and partook of flesh to become like to us.1Jn4
” 6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.”
Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;Hi KJ,
The Son of God had to be anointed by the Spirit of God at the Jordan so he could share in the Father's life Spirit. We follow him.Hi KJ,
Christ told the disciples to let the children come to him. So if they recognised him and understood his role and were drawn to him they are old enough to come. He told them that they had to become simple like those kids because the kingdom belongs to such as them.In Acts there are somthing like 17 baptsims all involving only adults with the possible exception of the Jailors family.
I believe sin is not ascribed to us till we are nearly adults and till then we are hopefully covered by the faith of our parents[1Cor7].
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2007,18:46) Hi KJ,
The Son of God had to be anointed by the Spirit of God at the Jordan so he could share in the Father's life Spirit. We follow him.
Nick,I'm curious. What do you make of John 1:1-14? What I mean is, do you believe that the Logos was some entity before he was the human Yeshua? Or do you think that he was merely a word that was a plan or a spoken word? I thought this at one time but I think these verses would be unnecessary if that was the case.
If you think that the Word was an entity begotten of God, do you believe he became flesh by physical birth, or did he take on flesh during Yeshua's baptism? I still struggle with the insertion of JTB in verses 1-14. There had to be some significance IMO.
Hi KJ,
Yes, the Monogenes Son begotten of God alone in the beginning.
He had his own glory and this was seen on the mountain.
He partook of our nature conceived in Mary.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2007,19:51) Hi KJ,
Yes, the Monogenes Son begotten of God alone in the beginning.
He had his own glory and this was seen on the mountain.
He partook of our nature conceived in Mary.
Nick,I can see all of that. It would go hand-in-hand with “emptied himself”. Do you think Wisdom and Word are the same? Many have related the two but Irenaeus (sp?) believed Wisdom to be the Spirit and Word to be Yeshua (before he was Yeshua).
Hi KJ,
No. Christ is said to be the wisdom of God but so is scripture.
Luke 11:49
“For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ' I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
Wisdom was imbued in all of God's creation revealing itself in order and harmony.
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