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Hi not3,
God is faithful to guard His Word against satan and the wiles of foolish men leaving enough questions to challenge but not overcome faithHi Nick,
That's acutally a pretty good response. However, God has not guarded his written word (if indeed it is his written word). The way it has been mishandled through time is a disgrace! I would not be too quick to give that credit to our dear Father. I don't think he would want his name signed to such a collection of distorted books!!! Surely if God had his protective hand in these books, there would not have been obvious errors even a few hundred years ago. God is perfect, he is holy. His written and living Word should reflect this – no? Why not? Jesus was perfect……why should we expect anything less from the ONLY instruction book left to show us the ONE way home? Nonsense.
Faith helps us to realize that these books are not everything HIM. Faith helps us to look beyond the introduction, and to begin the relationship.
Nick,
The words of God are spirit, he gives HIS Spirit to reveal all truth, his word does not equal the bible, when you read “the word” you read it to mean the bible and that is not the meaning of that word. His words are written down in the bible and his Spirit reveals the meaning of all of his word which are in the bible, however there are mans words written in the bible too, more of them in the OT, some in the NT.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Was the comforter sent just to the apostles to write the NT and not for us?
We are told that the spirit of antichrist was present, and there were false teachers, when the apostles were alive.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 12 2008,18:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 12 2008,13:51) It is the scriptures with the help of the Spirit of truth that will keep the believer from falling. Jesus who is the “living Word” is the foundation.
With all due respect, bro, I can honestly say that this has not been totally true for me.The Scriptures have not kept me from falling, if indeed I have fallen at all. The Scriptures are a collection of words – dried ink! The collection sits on my shelf in a gazillion differnt translations, and versions. I can choose which to read depending on my mood or whim.
The power does not reside in the words; words can be manipulated.
Hi Mandy
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 12 2008,13:51) It is the scriptures with the help of the Spirit of truth that will keep the believer from falling. Jesus who is the “living Word” is the foundation. Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 12 2008,18:10)
With all due respect, bro, I can honestly say that this has not been totally true for me.But because it isn’t true for you does not mean it is not true for others.
But you would say that I have a narrow mind. You are right.
Jesus had a narrow mind and said that the road that leads to life is narrow.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life. That’s pretty narrow minded for him to say that he is the only way to the Father.
Ask your self this question Mandy.
What knowledge do you have about God that you believe to be true is not found in the scriptures or you did not get from the scriptures? Can you name anything about God that you know of that you did not learn from the scriptures or that is not in the scriptures?
The thing is Mandy, you have drawn your own conclusions about the scriptures and about your faith. You developed your belief by making up your own mind what is true and what is not. So in this way Mandy's faith is narrow minded because no one else believes exactly like Mandy. Yet you would fault others by calling them narrow minded for trusting in the written scriptures and not just in their own concepts.
Jesus quoted nothing but scripture in the wilderness when he was tempted of the devil.
So I will be narrow minded enough to do the same The Word of God is quick and Powerful and sharper than any twoedged sword. The scriptures are the plumb line of the Christian faith and without them we would not have the knowledge that we have about our God or our faith.
Blessings
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 12 2008,13:51) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 12 2008,12:43) Nick,
Mandy's faith in Jesus seems strong, her faith in fallible man does not appear strong – she seems to be testing ALL things and holding fast to that is good.
Foundation is the bible or Jesus?
1 Cor 1Cr 3:10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Cr 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.Paul was laying the foundation of JESUS CHRIST not the bible
Hi MKQuote (meerkat @ Dec. 12 2008,12:43)
Paul was laying the foundation of JESUS CHRIST…And just how did he do that? It was by the inspired words that he spoke and penned.
Whosoever cometh to me, and “HEARETH MY SAYINGS, AND DOETH THEM“, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and “LAID THE FOUNDATION ON A ROCK: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.” But he that heareth, and doeth not“, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and “immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. Luke 6:47-49
Paul's message and writings were a direct revelation from Jesus.
It is the scriptures with the help of the Spirit of truth that will keep the believer from falling. Jesus who is the “living Word” is the foundation.
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which “they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION“. 2 Peter 3:16
Peter who was an eye witness and follower of Jesus claims that Paul’s writings are scripture.
“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to THE THINGS WHICH WE HAVE HEARD, LEST AT ANY TIME WE SHOULD LET THEM SLIP“. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; WHICH AT THE FIRST BEGAN TO BE SPOKEN BY THE LORD, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Heb 2:1-3
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the spoken Word of God which has been recorded and preserved in the scriptures.
Jesus said the words that he spoke were spirit and life. The Spirit of God breathed on Holy men of God and they penned the scriptures, now the Spirit of God brings to life the written scriptures in the life of the believer and that living word becomes the foundation of our life in him.
Doubting the scriptures is not wise for the scriptures make us wise unto salvation.
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, “which are able to make thee wise unto salvation” through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 3:15
Blessings WJ
WJ,However a lot of the time how the process goes is you are taught theology, then read the scriptures, then try and use the Holy Spirit to support the theology and the scriptures that have been cut out.
The Holy Spirit is meant to be the leader, we are to follow. The Holy Spirit has come in Jesus name, The scriptures are the litmus test of the truth (test the spirits – not all spirits are of God)
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 13 2008,06:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 12 2008,13:51) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 12 2008,12:43) Nick,
Mandy's faith in Jesus seems strong, her faith in fallible man does not appear strong – she seems to be testing ALL things and holding fast to that is good.
Foundation is the bible or Jesus?
1 Cor 1Cr 3:10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Cr 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.Paul was laying the foundation of JESUS CHRIST not the bible
Hi MKQuote (meerkat @ Dec. 12 2008,12:43)
Paul was laying the foundation of JESUS CHRIST…And just how did he do that? It was by the inspired words that he spoke and penned.
Whosoever cometh to me, and “HEARETH MY SAYINGS, AND DOETH THEM“, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and “LAID THE FOUNDATION ON A ROCK: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.” But he that heareth, and doeth not“, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and “immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great. Luke 6:47-49
Paul's message and writings were a direct revelation from Jesus.
It is the scriptures with the help of the Spirit of truth that will keep the believer from falling. Jesus who is the “living Word” is the foundation.
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which “they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION“. 2 Peter 3:16
Peter who was an eye witness and follower of Jesus claims that Paul’s writings are scripture.
“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to THE THINGS WHICH WE HAVE HEARD, LEST AT ANY TIME WE SHOULD LET THEM SLIP“. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; WHICH AT THE FIRST BEGAN TO BE SPOKEN BY THE LORD, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; Heb 2:1-3
The Gospel of Jesus Christ is the spoken Word of God which has been recorded and preserved in the scriptures.
Jesus said the words that he spoke were spirit and life. The Spirit of God breathed on Holy men of God and they penned the scriptures, now the Spirit of God brings to life the written scriptures in the life of the believer and that living word becomes the foundation of our life in him.
Doubting the scriptures is not wise for the scriptures make us wise unto salvation.
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, “which are able to make thee wise unto salvation” through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 3:15
Blessings WJ
WJ,However a lot of the time how the process goes is you are taught theology, then read the scriptures, then try and use the Holy Spirit to support the theology and the scriptures that have been cut out.
The Holy Spirit is meant to be the leader, we are to follow. The Holy Spirit has come in Jesus name, The scriptures are the litmus test of the truth (test the spirits – not all spirits are of God)
Hi MKQuote (meerkat @ Dec. 13 2008,06:49)
The Holy Spirit is meant to be the leader, we are to follow. The Holy Spirit has come in Jesus name, The scriptures are the litmus test of the truth (test the spirits – not all spirits are of God)I hear this a lot…”test the spirits”, maybe yoiu can shed some light on how you “test the spirits”.
The Holy Spirit will never contradict the scriptures for they are inspired by him.
WJ
Hey Keith,
Quote But because it isn’t true for you does not mean it is not true for others.
That's a given.Quote Jesus had a narrow mind and said that the road that leads to life is narrow.
Actually, Jesus had a pretty open mind. He chatted with sinners, he ate with folks that were not considered mainstream acceptable, he changed rules/laws because he saw no humanity in them and the list goes on……. Jesus is alright with me, indeed he was a progressive believer in his God!Quote What knowledge do you have about God that you believe to be true is not found in the scriptures or you did not get from the scriptures? Can you name anything about God that you know of that you did not learn from the scriptures or that is not in the scriptures?
Goodness, have you not learned anything from God that is not included in the Scriptures? It sounds like this is the case – I pray not. As for the things that I have been taught (because the Spirit does teach so that no man has excuses *even those without bibles*), how long do you have?Quote Yet you would fault others by calling them narrow minded for trusting in the written scriptures and not just in their own concepts.
Most Christians are not like you, Keith. They have not studied and found the errors…..but decided to believe it all anyway. They haven't bothered to look. It is mainly those that I “fault”. As for you and Nick, I still cannot wrap my brain around why you would follow the steps written down for you —– when you are not even certain who wrote the steps? The scholars don't know for certain, and I know you place a lot of emphasis on their knowledge. Is faith good enough in this case? Must be.Quote The scriptures are the plumb line of the Christian faith and without them we would not have the knowledge that we have about our God or our faith.
God help those who don't have a copy of the KJV, then. I'm sorry bro, but what you believe here is not even scriptural. God said that he would write his laws on our hearts. We wouldn't even need to tell one another, “Know God!” because we have the testimony of nature around us.You put too much confidence in words that are nothing but dried ink. But of course this is yours to do, and you know I respect your choice.
Blessings to you, too!
MandyHi not3,
Jesus picked up the dried ink and read from it telling the listeners it was being fulfilled in their presence.
He constantly proved his mission by the dried ink.
He overcame Satan by the dried ink.Should you not follow him and believe God is in charge?
Yes, and all that he said would be fulfilled was not (but that is another topic for another thread).
Man shall live by every word that comes from God, true. Jesus didn't say that we were to live by every word of a collection of books.
Does following Jesus mean you have to believe the bible? There are other books written about Jesus…..
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 13 2008,07:02) Hi MK Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 13 2008,06:49)
The Holy Spirit is meant to be the leader, we are to follow. The Holy Spirit has come in Jesus name, The scriptures are the litmus test of the truth (test the spirits – not all spirits are of God)I hear this a lot…”test the spirits”, maybe yoiu can shed some light on how you “test the spirits”.
The Holy Spirit will never contradict the scriptures for they are inspired by him.
WJ
I am finding it is a process, and the process doesn't seem to end – trust the Holy Spirit, test with the scriptures, what happens when the scriptures disagree with each other, because they do? You need to then test the scriptures against each other, always listening to the Holy SpiritQuote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2008,07:22) Hi not3,
Jesus confirmed what God had said through them.
But you disagree?
Perhaps those were the scriptures not yet tainted?
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 13 2008,08:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 13 2008,07:02) Hi MK Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 13 2008,06:49)
The Holy Spirit is meant to be the leader, we are to follow. The Holy Spirit has come in Jesus name, The scriptures are the litmus test of the truth (test the spirits – not all spirits are of God)I hear this a lot…”test the spirits”, maybe yoiu can shed some light on how you “test the spirits”.
The Holy Spirit will never contradict the scriptures for they are inspired by him.
WJ
I am finding it is a process, and the process doesn't seem to end – trust the Holy Spirit, test with the scriptures, what happens when the scriptures disagree with each other, because they do? You need to then test the scriptures against each other, always listening to the Holy Spirit
MeerKat,The problem with this line of reasoning is that you will find the “Holy Spirit” tells people different things about the same scripture!!
Hmmmm
Yes, I know – I think it has to do with how many witness scriptures you have and how the relate to the overall plan that God has in mind that he has revealed.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 13 2008,08:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2008,07:22) Hi not3,
Jesus confirmed what God had said through them.
But you disagree?
Perhaps those were the scriptures not yet tainted?
Hi Not3,
Satan is not greater than our God.Quote (Not3in1 @ Dec. 13 2008,08:21) Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 13 2008,08:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 13 2008,07:02) Hi MK Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 13 2008,06:49)
The Holy Spirit is meant to be the leader, we are to follow. The Holy Spirit has come in Jesus name, The scriptures are the litmus test of the truth (test the spirits – not all spirits are of God)I hear this a lot…”test the spirits”, maybe yoiu can shed some light on how you “test the spirits”.
The Holy Spirit will never contradict the scriptures for they are inspired by him.
WJ
I am finding it is a process, and the process doesn't seem to end – trust the Holy Spirit, test with the scriptures, what happens when the scriptures disagree with each other, because they do? You need to then test the scriptures against each other, always listening to the Holy Spirit
MeerKat,The problem with this line of reasoning is that you will find the “Holy Spirit” tells people different things about the same scripture!!
Hmmmm
Hi not3,
There are other religious spirits-one for every denomination it seems.
Then there are the speculating intellects of men.Nick,,
Any relation to Rev 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
The kings of the earth have been wondering they are not literal kings of the physical countries but Gods servants who are called priests and kings
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