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Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 27 2008,13:46) Quote (Stu @ April 25 2008,22:01) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 25 2008,12:24) Quote (Stu @ April 24 2008,12:10) These are two of the most pathetic apologies I have read.
I don't think they were right out of the top drawer, but made a few good points in addressing some of kejonn's errors. That's why I cited them.Quote It would seem that god shares in common with all the brutal dictators of the 20th century an inability to deal with mockery in a manner worthy of a true leader. If god is omnipotent, he should be able to intellectually outwit his mockers. Instead he sets bears on the mockers and leaves unanswered the issues being raised by a 'large group of young men'. What an incompetent.
No, an incompetent would have let the matter slide and open the door for others to make the same mistake. Making an example of someone(s) is mericiful in the grand scheme of things IMO.
But that is exactly what 'he' has done! Instead of putting the matter to rest by defeating the idea behind the mockery, he has made it clear that it was a good point being raised because his only answer was repression (by murder). I forget what point of the mockery was now, but you can see that because I am interested to find out why such mockery was deemed worthy by young [accountable] men, 'he' will now have to deal with me continuing the mocking as well. Job not done. Competence sorely lacking.Stuart
No the job was done. I imagine mockery of the instrument of God's message, and therefore the message itself, and therefore God was something that was taken a little more seriously from that moment hence. Other's likely took the warning onboard and were saved from the consequence of committing the same mistake.
I haven't seen any bears round here, despite my own mocking of god's outrageous dictatorial proclamations. New Zealand doesn't have any really dangerous species. Will I be pecked to death by a kea do you think?Stuart
Quote (charity @ April 27 2008,20:56) I was told today that a “Pig” can eat a whole entire human body? 
Maybe I will be eaten alive by a pig for my mockery of god. I don't imagine he will send one of the 'clean' animals to deal with my insubordination.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 28 2008,01:33) Quote (charity @ April 27 2008,20:56) I was told today that a “Pig” can eat a whole entire human body?
Maybe I will be eaten alive by a pig for my mockery of god. I don't imagine he will send one of the 'clean' animals to deal with my insubordination.Stuart
If God doesn't exist, you have nothing to worry about.However if God does exists, I'm assuming there will come a day when you will be saddened by your lack of understanding of him. Or angered because you were not given a reliable way to know him…..or recognize him?
Nature works for me, but you turn to science. Perhaps science is also a way to acknowledge that there is a “higher power” at work?
I think if you are looking for God you find him (this is large enough to include many faiths/cultures/religions).
Hi Stu:
This is how you can know God's character:
Quote Jhn 14:7 ¶ If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.Quote (TimothyVI @ April 27 2008,23:57) Quote (charity @ April 27 2008,20:56) I was told today that a “Pig” can eat a whole entire human body?
I don't know about that,
But I could probably eat a whole entire pig, given a little time.
Tim
nice to see you back Tim.Quote (Stu @ April 28 2008,01:33) Quote (charity @ April 27 2008,20:56) I was told today that a “Pig” can eat a whole entire human body?
Maybe I will be eaten alive by a pig for my mockery of god. I don't imagine he will send one of the 'clean' animals to deal with my insubordination.Stuart
A short time, and the true mockers will be revealed as the pigs that consumed.Im off out to lunch now
hey hey Hi Not3in1
Quote If God doesn't exist, you have nothing to worry about.
That is my plan!Quote However if God does exists, I'm assuming there will come a day when you will be saddened by your lack of understanding of him. Or angered because you were not given a reliable way to know him…..or recognize him?
The first question is ‘which god’? Then, were I to meet some such character, say the Judeo-christian one, I would initially be polite and give him/her/it the chance to tell me that the wanton slaughter in the OT for which ‘he’ takes responsibility is all fiction. The rest of the conversation for me will depend on the outcome of that enquiry.It is later that the disappointment would set in. With a god present, the universe is not a beautiful place. It is not awe-inspiring, it is dull. For humans it is not explorable or able to be described with insight and clarity as long as there is divine magic at work. Why wonder that music has such power if there is a god? All you have to say is that god makes it so. Dull, brainless, actually just like it is described by all the anti-science charletans on TBN. No point to go on if you have any intelligence and curiosity, in fact what kind of a cruel game is this god monster playing to give us huge curiosity then just quench that with the death of magic?
However, if the universe is the result of an unguided sequence of big bang, stellar evolution, planetary accretion and evenually biological evolution (as indeed it is) then it is the most dunbstriking thing. It is the ultimate puzzle, an endless physical and chemical cryptic crossword and details to the nth degree to be explored. but with answers millions of times more intnriguing than any crossword setter could produce.
Quote Nature works for me, but you turn to science. Perhaps science is also a way to acknowledge that there is a “higher power” at work?
Science has nothing to say about the existence of gods, except ‘What god”?What is nature? I don’t think of science as anything other than what everyone does at least a few times a day without even realising it. If you overcook the peas, you make a mental note that boiling for 15 minutes is too long. Contained in that is a testable hypothesis and an experiment. If you boil for only 7 minutes the next time and they are still overcooked then you are building a graph in your head of ‘cookedness’ versus boiling time. We make hypotheses all the time and test them. If I buy her flowers will I get away with coming home late? Then we try it and see. You may not think of it in such terms but you are doing science. To my mind science and nature are the same thing. Nature is all the things we can observe, like sunsets and bird nests and humans designing a better television set and beavers constructing a dam and people praying to their gods and penguins selling sex for useful rocks and people having visions of the divine. Science is just a formal method of describing and organising those observations in a useful way.
Quote I think if you are looking for God you find him (this is large enough to include many faiths/cultures/religions).
I am not looking for anyone’s god. I don’t think there is such a thing. If you can make a convincing case, and meet my high standards of probity then I will admit I was wrong. I don’t care to earnestly search for things that are almost certainly imaginary. I do find it fascinating that others can imagine them, though. My mind is both open and made up. That is the provisional nature of science that is foreign to many religious believers, although not to you I suspect.Stuart
Hi 942767
Quote This is how you can know God's character:
Jhn 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.This is firstly an invocation of faith, a kindly way of saying ‘Just shut up and believe’.
If we take the holy ghost as read, are you appealing to the trinity here? I will refer you then to Not3in1, who, while she still believes there is at least one supernatural being, at least is no longer bending her brain in the contortion of a god that killed himself in order to appease himself at the breaking by others of the laws he made up himself, while asking the question about why he forsook himself.
If we put this tract in context, we are to know god through Jesus, yes? How then are we to know Jesus? Paul took charge of the PR side of things between the alleged execution of Jesus and the writings of the Gospels. How do we trust him? He did not meet Jesus and does not mention Jesus doing miracles. The gospels were written 40 years and longer after the supposed death of Jesus, in most cases by anonymous writers, and certainly not by eyewitnesses. Josephus might have mentioned Jesus, or he might not have. His writing is corrupted by early christian editing. Tacitus could have mentioned Jesus. Both men were born after 33CE. Neither was an eyewitness to Jesus. In an age of furious Roman diary writing, Jesus gets nothing more than these two cursory and very unreliable mentions.
As it happens I am happy to give a better than even chance that Jesus did exist, but anyone who claims to know what he did or said is very much misled by the Paul the spin doctor and his fellow zealots.
What actual knowledge do we have about Jesus (and through him knowledge of god) that does not depend on a belief in a god-inspired scripture? Isn’t that the worst kind of self-defeating circular logic?
Stuart
Quote (charity @ April 28 2008,11:52) Quote (Stu @ April 28 2008,01:33) Quote (charity @ April 27 2008,20:56) I was told today that a “Pig” can eat a whole entire human body?
Maybe I will be eaten alive by a pig for my mockery of god. I don't imagine he will send one of the 'clean' animals to deal with my insubordination.Stuart
A short time, and the true mockers will be revealed as the pigs that consumed.Im off out to lunch now
hey hey
Hmmm. Could the true mockers be the ones that deny the pig's evolutionary origins?While we know that atheists enjoy spontaneous remission of disease at the same rate as believers, let's bet that there have been far more christians than atheists eaten by lions!
Stuart
Can the bible be trusted?
How can it be trusted when zillions of believers, who love God, read it and come away with various (sometimes opposing) ideas and theories? I just don't get it.
Do we need the spirit to decode it? And what of all those who say they possess the spirit and yet have different beliefs as others with the same spirit? I just don't get it.
I just don't get it.
Quote (Not3in1 @ May 04 2008,09:58) Can the bible be trusted? How can it be trusted when zillions of believers, who love God, read it and come away with various (sometimes opposing) ideas and theories? I just don't get it.
Do we need the spirit to decode it? And what of all those who say they possess the spirit and yet have different beliefs as others with the same spirit? I just don't get it.
I just don't get it.
The only way that you will get 100 people to agree on what the bible says is if you only let one person read it and then tell the other 99 what to believe.
The Catholics had the right idea for 1500 years.Even today many Catholics do not read the biible, they simply believe what the priest tells them.
Tim
Tim, two words for you: nail, head.
Thanks, bro. You help me not to feel so isolated and crazy. I don't know how to say it any other way.
Love,
MandyQuote (TimothyVI @ May 04 2008,10:15) Quote (Not3in1 @ May 04 2008,09:58) Can the bible be trusted? How can it be trusted when zillions of believers, who love God, read it and come away with various (sometimes opposing) ideas and theories? I just don't get it.
Do we need the spirit to decode it? And what of all those who say they possess the spirit and yet have different beliefs as others with the same spirit? I just don't get it.
I just don't get it.
The only way that you will get 100 people to agree on what the bible says is if you only let one person read it and then tell the other 99 what to believe.
The Catholics had the right idea for 1500 years.Even today many Catholics do not read the Bible, they simply believe what the priest tells them.
Tim
YES that is very sad that a lot of Catholics still do not read the Bible. We used to be there too. But I believe that God calls certain people out for whatever reason He has for us. I am very thankful that God has done that for me and my Husband, Also that God had called us both together. Another thing that we have realized if God does not open their minds to the truth, you can talk to them until you are blue in the face. We had many conversations with our Son who goes to the Baptist Church and believes in the trinity.
For letting me realize that I am also thankful. But I do think that you can get 100 or more people to agree, just take the J.W. alone. It is also sad to me that you think that the Catholic had it right. They are deceived and that is not right, Timothy.
Peace and Love Mrs.Nah, even within the JW's there are splinter groups. Some believe it's OK to receive blood transfusions, for instance. Some practice holidays, and some even believe in the trinity! I've talked to a few of these, and I've chatted with some who have left the fellowship and have “broke free” from their doctrine.
Personally, I like a lot of their teachings and have studied with the two ladies that visit me regularly. But it all boils down to who they believe Jesus to be, for me. And I just don't buy their doctrine on Jesus being Michael. I don't see it, although I've desperately wanted to. I've wanted to belong to their great group, I confess. But I just cannot see it.
I don't believe there will ever be any unity. Just use this board for example. There are not even two people of the same camp that can agree on everything. I have a lot in common with many believers here, but even sometimes I think, “Holy cow, what are they thinking?”. And I laughed just now wondering what they think of me sometimes. I've gone on so many rabbit trails over the past 6 months that I think I'll never find my way back to the straight and narrow (where ever that is).
Quote (seek and you will find @ May 04 2008,16:33) It is also sad to me that you think that the Catholic had it right. They are deceived and that is not right, Timothy.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs.
I meant that they had the right idea in how to keep the church in unity.
Do not let them read the bible and tell them what to believe.It was not a compliment.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ May 04 2008,22:51) Quote (seek and you will find @ May 04 2008,16:33) It is also sad to me that you think that the Catholic had it right. They are deceived and that is not right, Timothy.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs.
I meant that they had the right idea in how to keep the church in unity.
Do not let them read the bible and tell them what to believe.It was not a compliment.
Tim
Timothy O,K, and please I hope that in the future you make yourself more clearer, I do not want to misunderstand anybody.
Peace to You Mrs.Quote (TimothyVI @ May 04 2008,22:51) Quote (seek and you will find @ May 04 2008,16:33) It is also sad to me that you think that the Catholic had it right. They are deceived and that is not right, Timothy.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs.
I meant that they had the right idea in how to keep the church in unity.
Do not let them read the bible and tell them what to believe.It was not a compliment.
Tim
That's how I understood it.
Thanks, Tim.Quote (Not3in1 @ May 05 2008,12:01) Quote (TimothyVI @ May 04 2008,22:51) Quote (seek and you will find @ May 04 2008,16:33) It is also sad to me that you think that the Catholic had it right. They are deceived and that is not right, Timothy.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs.
I meant that they had the right idea in how to keep the church in unity.
Do not let them read the bible and tell them what to believe.It was not a compliment.
Tim
That's how I understood it.
Thanks, Tim.
Yes, I Know, you know it all.
Peace to you Irene
You are just like my kids sometimes sis, needing to have the last word. I guess I should let you have the last word, but I'm feeling a bit onery tonight.
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