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Hi.
Was wondering about this. Please address any replies to all as I wont have time to reply much in the next few days. Thanks.
1st John 4
“Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God”2nd Peter;
But false prophets also arose among the people, as false teachers will also be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them2nd corinthians
And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. It is no great thing therefore if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousnessMat 7;
By their fruits you will know themGalatians 5
“ The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control”.———————————-
http://www.bible-knowledge.com/fruits-of-the-holy-spirit/
Love
Unselfish, benevolent concern for another; brotherly concern; the object of brotherly concern or affection
The self-denying, self-sacrificing, Christ-like love which is the foundation of all other graces
Unselfish, loyal and benevolent concern for the well being of another
The high esteem which God has for His human children and the high regard which they, in turn, should have for Him and other people
To love, to have affection for someone; to like; to be a friend; the love of brothers for each other
———————————-Joy
Great delight; gladness of heart
The happy state that results from knowing and serving God
That deep, abiding, inner rejoicing in the Lord
To rejoice, to be glad
Happy, joyful, cheerful, rejoicing, festive——————————-
Peace
The presence and experience of right relationships
The tranquility of soul
Sense of well-being and fulfillment that comes from God and is dependent on His presence
The inner tranquility and poise of the Christian whose trust is in God through Christ
Tranquility, rest, harmony, the absence of agitation or discord———————————-
Longsuffering
Forbearance, patience
Patient endurance and steadfastness under provocation
Forbearance under ill-will, with no thought of retaliation
Patience, endurance, steadfastness and forbearance
Forbearance under suffering and endurance in the face of adversity
Ability to endure persecution and ill-treatment
——————————Kindness
Quality or state of being kind
The steadfast love that maintains relationships through gracious aid in times of need
Goodness of heart, serviceable, good, gracious, pleasant
Love for mankind, hospitality, acts of kindness, readiness to help, human friendship, benevolence, taking thought of others
Goodness in action, sweetness of disposition, gentleness in dealing with others, affability
The ability to act for the welfare of those taxing your patience
———————————Goodness
Beneficence, ready to do good, love in action
Kindness in actual manifestation, virtue equipped for action, a bountiful propensity both to will and to do what is good, intrinsic goodness producing a generosity and a Godlike state or being
The word beneficence means the fact or quality of being kind or doing good
———————————-Faithfullnes
Fidelity which makes one true to his promise and faithful to his task
Steadfast, dedicated, dependable and worthy of trust
Steadfast, unchanging and thoroughly grounded in relation to the other
Dependability, loyalty and stability———————————
Gentleness
Mildness combined with tenderness
Gracious, kindly disposition, controlled strength
A disposition that is even-tempered, tranquil, balanced in spirit, unpretentious and that has passions under control
A character that is equitable, reasonable, forbearing, moderate, fair and considerate
Power and strength under control
Willing to pardon injuries, correct faults. One who rules his spirit well—————————————
Self Control
Temperance, rational restraint of natural impulses
Sober, temperate, calm and dispassionate approach to life, having mastered personal desires and passions
Calls for a self-disciplined life following Christ’s example of being in the world but not of the world
Restraint or discipline exercised over one’s behaviorNow the thing is I have seen these things (love, peace etc) in people who also deny the Lord ? Who also try to teach…or try to lead people the wrong way ?
Anyone can appear as an angel of light, just as any poet or writer can write amazing pieces, just as any godless councillor can say any words which make the hearer feel good.
So how is one to know ?
Shimmer,
There is always a chink in their armour of belief.At the end of the day, we all know truth. It is how much we seek to hold to it that defines us.
Anyone who professes Jesus must also profess his Father.
Anyone who professes the father must also profess the son.But no one can profess the father or the son in truth and righteousness unless they have the Holy Spirit.
So this is how to tell: the profession of either father or son or both, in the Holy Spirit.
JustAskin debated with WorshippingJesus. When JustAskin locked WorshippingJesus into professing a response of the father and son in the Holy Spirit, WorshippingJesus could not answer.
The same with Mikeboll64, and Istari with Irene.
How is it that they could not reply if they, in themselves, by their own thoughts, could not respond when locked in with the Holy Spirit?
Simple, they were not speaking in truth and they knew it. They knew not to answer with their own thoughts in the Holy Spirit. Yet, as soon as they were released from the Holy Spirit, they resorted to their ungodly thoughts.
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,09:40) Shimmer,
There is always a chink in their armour of belief.At the end of the day, we all know truth. It is how much we seek to hold to it that defines us.
Anyone who professes Jesus must also profess his Father.
Anyone who professes the father must also profess the son.But no one can profess the father or the son in truth and righteousness unless they have the Holy Spirit.
So this is how to tell: the profession of either father or son or both, in the Holy Spirit.
Hi Istari,Thank you for this wonderful insight!
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,11:40) Shimmer,
There is always a chink in their armour of belief.At the end of the day, we all know truth. It is how much we seek to hold to it that defines us.
Anyone who professes Jesus must also profess his Father.
Anyone who professes the father must also profess the son.But no one can profess the father or the son in truth and righteousness unless they have the Holy Spirit.
So this is how to tell: the profession of either father or son or both, in the Holy Spirit.
JustAskin debated with WorshippingJesus. When JustAskin locked WorshippingJesus into professing a response of the father and son in the Holy Spirit, WorshippingJesus could not answer.
The same with Mikeboll64, and Istari with Irene.
How is it that they could not reply if they, in themselves, by their own thoughts, could not respond when locked in with the Holy Spirit?
Simple, they were not speaking in truth and they knew it. They knew not to answer with their own thoughts in the Holy Spirit. Yet, as soon as they were released from the Holy Spirit, they resorted to their ungodly thoughts.
Thats a good answer, thankyou.But there must be more to it than that.
Anyone can profess the Father and the Son. The thing is though; how do they see the Father and the Son ? To say Jesus was nothing more than us, that Jesus did not come from above etc is NOT professing the Father and the Son truthfully is it ? It's making Jesus less than he really is.
Ok I see thats what your meaning.
What about the 'fruits of the spirit' though?
And would the fruits of the spirit change due to it being the last day's ? Example would there be more urgency behind speaking…. which could look like anger to some ?
And how come the same things described ……love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control……can also be found in other faiths example with Muslims there are lots of people who act like that ?
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 17 2011,07:14) Hi. Was wondering about this. Please address any replies to all as I wont have time to reply much in the next few days. Thanks.
1st John 4
“Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God”2nd Peter;
But false prophets also arose among the people, as false teachers will also be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master who bought them2nd corinthians
And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. It is no great thing therefore if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousnessMat 7;
By their fruits you will know themGalatians 5
“ The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control”.———————————-
Consider this, all ministers, and teachers of the word of God, claim they have the spirit of God; if they did, would they not teach what is written in the WORD?
And if their preaching had any GOOD fruit, would the world be in the shape it is in today?Georg
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 17 2011,07:50) Now the thing is I have seen these things (love, peace etc) in people who also deny the Lord ? Who also try to teach…or try to lead people the wrong way ? Anyone can appear as an angel of light, just as any poet or writer can write amazing pieces, just as any godless councillor can say any words which make the hearer feel good.
So how is one to know ?
To
all: Certainly all the things above that you wrote were love expressions. If one interprets scripture as freedom, then that aligns with love. If it aligns with love it aligns with God!If one interprets scripture as a gift of Christ, not requiring works on your behalf to obtain. That = Love.
If one interprets scripture as an easy, light load, workfree- perfection, cleanliness, worthiness, freedom, kindness, non-binding with rules and regulations and laws and punishments and torture for eternity, isn't that Love?
Yet nobody yet, that I am aware of, has accepted the freedom and perfection that I share in Jesus Christ and his work for us. Nobody that I am aware of believes in their sinlessness in Christ.
The gift of God through Jesus is for all. Anyone who will believe. Whosever will believe. No restrictions but faith!!
It seems to me that most dissagree with me, and demand that they retain their sin even if they don't know that they have sinned and look forward to hell and destruction. That belief is a slap in the face of Jesus.
Can you imagine, not knowing that you have sinned but believing that there might have been a little sneaker sin that got by so even if you don't know for sure, you will still declare, I am in sin!!! God help us, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 18 2011,00:58) Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 17 2011,07:50) Now the thing is I have seen these things (love, peace etc) in people who also deny the Lord ? Who also try to teach…or try to lead people the wrong way ? Anyone can appear as an angel of light, just as any poet or writer can write amazing pieces, just as any godless councillor can say any words which make the hearer feel good.
So how is one to know ?
To
all: Certainly all the things above that you wrote were love expressions. If one interprets scripture as freedom, then that aligns with love. If it aligns with love it aligns with God!If one interprets scripture as a gift of Christ, not requiring works on your behalf to obtain. That = Love.
If one interprets scripture as an easy, light load, workfree- perfection, cleanliness, worthiness, freedom, kindness, non-binding with rules and regulations and laws and punishments and torture for eternity, isn't that Love?
Yet nobody yet, that I am aware of, has accepted the freedom and perfection that I share in Jesus Christ and his work for us. Nobody that I am aware of believes in their sinlessness in Christ.
The gift of God through Jesus is for all. Anyone who will believe. Whosever will believe. No restrictions but faith!!
It seems to me that most dissagree with me, and demand that they retain their sin even if they don't know that they have sinned and look forward to hell and destruction. That belief is a slap in the face of Jesus.
Can you imagine, not knowing that you have sinned but believing that there might have been a little sneaker sin that got by so even if you don't know for sure, you will still declare, I am in sin!!! God help us, TK
Than what is this?Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, “”O vain man””, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father “”justified by works””, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought “”with”” his works, and by “”works was faith made perfect””?
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by “”works”” a man is justified, “”and not by faith only””.
You want to argue that, do it with James.
Georg
Shimmer,
God commands us to love as he loves. In other words that means to be righteous as he is righteous. Jesus is our teacher. If someone comes and state Jesus does not teach you how to become righteous at God is righteous then they are not a servant of God. If someone comes telling you that you will have peace despite you continuing to willfully sin then they are like the false prophets who state peace, peace when there is not peace. If someone teaches you not to believe the promises of God then they are a child of the devil.
How many humans do you know that love as God loves? Anyone content with less than that is self righteous.
Hi Shimmer,
The reason you see Godlyness in other people is that God does not restrict himself to the faithful alone. Remember the woman at the well. She was a Samaritan!
Don't think of Samaritans as seen today. In those times, Samaritans were the cast offs from the Hebrew/Jewish family of God. A Jew would not be seen dead talking to a Samaritan. And notice that even though Jesus asked for water from the woman, she herself displayed reluctance at first not wishing to be seen drawing water for a Jew. Yes, Jesus was a Jew!And the 'Good Samaritan', what was significant was that the Samaritan even bothered to stop, even risk his own life because he too could have been beaten and robbed. Yet he, even he, a Samaritan, had Godliness in him. But he went further by paying for the man's treatment and enquirer afterwards about his welfare and paying any addition costs associated with the man's rehabilitation.
Godliness can be found everywhere, not just among the Faithful.
Given a name, I give it a name, and that name is: 'Common sense', 'Common God Sense'!See, hear! Everyone, but everyone, knows good from bad.
Everyone was made in the image of God, so everyone has Common God Sense, sense even between heathens, even heathens know right from wrong.
But many choose not to exercise their 'Common God Sense' preferring to live in senselessness of the flesh, acquiring unrewarded wealth, wasting godly talents, lying, cheating, misusing and abusing bodily functions, seeking unspiritual pleasures and defying the graces and mercies of the spirit of God within them.
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,01:33) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Jan. 18 2011,00:58) Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 17 2011,07:50) Now the thing is I have seen these things (love, peace etc) in people who also deny the Lord ? Who also try to teach…or try to lead people the wrong way ? Anyone can appear as an angel of light, just as any poet or writer can write amazing pieces, just as any godless councillor can say any words which make the hearer feel good.
So how is one to know ?
To
all: Certainly all the things above that you wrote were love expressions. If one interprets scripture as freedom, then that aligns with love. If it aligns with love it aligns with God!If one interprets scripture as a gift of Christ, not requiring works on your behalf to obtain. That = Love.
If one interprets scripture as an easy, light load, workfree- perfection, cleanliness, worthiness, freedom, kindness, non-binding with rules and regulations and laws and punishments and torture for eternity, isn't that Love?
Yet nobody yet, that I am aware of, has accepted the freedom and perfection that I share in Jesus Christ and his work for us. Nobody that I am aware of believes in their sinlessness in Christ.
The gift of God through Jesus is for all. Anyone who will believe. Whosever will believe. No restrictions but faith!!
It seems to me that most dissagree with me, and demand that they retain their sin even if they don't know that they have sinned and look forward to hell and destruction. That belief is a slap in the face of Jesus.
Can you imagine, not knowing that you have sinned but believing that there might have been a little sneaker sin that got by so even if you don't know for sure, you will still declare, I am in sin!!! God help us, TK
Than what is this?Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, “”O vain man””, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father “”justified by works””, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought “”with”” his works, and by “”works was faith made perfect””?
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by “”works”” a man is justified, “”and not by faith only””.
You want to argue that, do it with James.
Georg
bump for TimQuote (shimmer @ Jan. 17 2011,07:50) Now the thing is I have seen these things (love, peace etc) in people who also deny the Lord ? Who also try to teach…or try to lead people the wrong way ? Anyone can appear as an angel of light, just as any poet or writer can write amazing pieces, just as any godless councillor can say any words which make the hearer feel good.
So how is one to know ?
Greetings Shimmer……A meaningfull question that that is deserving of an honest answer….The answer is,you don't know, unless God sees fit to bless you with the wisdom to discern the things that pertain to him….you are way ahead of a vast majority that refuse to acknowledge the beguiling cleverness that is satan, by paying attention to the fact that there are many ways to emulate the gifts of the spirit….for this reason the liar appears to be an angel of light….welcome to the real world…Hi Tim. Bumped is when you bring up a thread again to remind someone about a post to them, in case they never saw it or never replied.
Hi all. Good points, which got me thinking more.
The samaritan woman and the good samaritan would be the same as those in other religion today. They have never known Jesus or been taught the truth about him. The danger is in those who HAVE known Christ and have left, and gone after other religions, have denied Christ as they knew Him.
I don't know that many Christians in real life, I don't go to Church so I will use myself as an example. I looked into other religions in my search for truth. I looked at Islam, and Juduism and others. So with Islam there were thing's I liked about it. I listened one day to a sermon done by a Muslim, and he was saying “God does not have a son” He was making a joke of thoses who believe God has a son. He was a Christian who converted to Islam. This got me thinking. In the end I had the choice……be a Muslim and deny Christ or not. I couldnt do it. I walked away from Islam permanantly. There are those though, who have decided to reject Christ who they knew, in favour of another religion.
So the state of them is different than those who are like the good samaritan or the samaritan woman, as the good samaritan or the samaritan woman never knew Christ.
False teachers arose from among them, among the believers in Christ. Like wolves in sheeps clothing, even satan appears as an angel of light and goodness.
There are lures and traps everywhere among us so we have to beware. And these lures and traps can for a while appear to either have the fruits of the spirit or appear to help. I think the first test is how do they see Christ ?
The second one is not quite so easy (the fruits of the spirit)
Maybe it has to do with consistency ?
Yes Shimmer, the fruits of the Spirit…consistency!
The European Unity (EU) is demanding that Bananas all be straight; that apples are all the same size and weight and colour texture; that pairs are all the same bell shape!
Why, so that packing is easier, weighing is simpler and supermarkets can stack them better!And all under the guise of 'it's what the consumers tell us they want'
Well, I can safely say that no one asked me!
Haha.
But like a family member of mine, she is consistant in the way she is. Friendly, humble, kind, welcoming, gentle, happy, the only thing I have ever seen her get angry with is technology. Even then she will pray for forgivness ? I tell her theres no need to…….. God hates those things anyway, and theyll all be destroyed ! She says its the anger that she felt, which is why she prayed for forgiveness !
But she is consistant. Shes like that all of the time. She doesnt change.
So I guess there is a way to tell. Amongst the believers in Christ. And as long as they also believe Jesus is who he is, nothing less.
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