Beelzebub and demons

Participant

Hi Nick, here for you is less insight MORE scripture!!

Psalms 10:2 The wicked in his pride persecutes the poor; Let them be caught in the plots which they have devised. 3 For the wicked boasts of his heart's desire; He blesses the greedy and renounces the Lord. 4 The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts. 5 His ways are always prospering; Your judgments are far above, out of his sight; As for all his enemies, he sneers at them. 6 He has said in his heart, “I shall not be moved; I shall never be in adversity.” 7 His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and oppression; Under his tongue is trouble and iniquity. 8 He sits in the lurking places of the villages; In the secret places he murders the innocent; His eyes are secretly fixed on the helpless. 9 He lies in wait secretly, as a lion in his den; He lies in wait to catch the poor; He catches the poor when he draws him into his net. 10 So he crouches, he lies low, That the helpless may fall by his strength. 11 He has said in his heart, “God has forgotten; He hides His face; He will never see.”

So the hiding wicked spirit, is the spirit of man ready to take advantage of another person due to the fact that God is not in his thoughts but rather his own heart’s desires.

Once again I see a two party here, NOT a three, it's just man and his mind and God and His.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.

Psalms 17:8 Keep me as the apple of Your eye; Hide me under the shadow of Your wings, 9 From the wicked who oppress me, From my deadly enemies who surround me. 10 They have closed up their fat hearts; With their mouths they speak proudly. 11 They have now surrounded us in our steps; They have set their eyes, crouching down to the earth, 12 As a lion is eager to tear his prey, And like a young lion lurking in secret places. 13 Arise, O Lord, Confront him, cast him down; Deliver my life from the wicked with Your sword, 14 With Your hand from men, O Lord, From men of the world who have their portion in this life, And whose belly You fill with Your hidden treasure. They are satisfied with children, And leave the rest of their possession for their babes. 15 As for me, I will see Your face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness.

Proverbs 19:12 The king's wrath is like the roaring of a lion, But his favor is like dew on the grass.

Pr 28:15 Like a roaring lion and a charging bear Is a wicked ruler over poor people.

Ezekiel 22:23 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 24 “Son of man, say to her: 'You are a land that is not cleansed or rained on in the day of indignation.' 25 The conspiracy of her prophets in her midst is like a roaring lion tearing the prey; they have devoured people; they have taken treasure and precious things; they have made many widows in her midst. 26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them. 27 Her princes in her midst are like wolves tearing the prey, to shed blood, to destroy people, and to get dishonest gain. 28 Her prophets plastered them with untempered mortar, seeing false visions, and divining lies for them, saying, 'Thus says the Lord God,' when the Lord had not spoken. 29 The people of the land have used oppressions, committed robbery, and mistreated the poor and needy; and they wrongfully oppress the stranger. 30 So I sought for a man among them who would make a wall, and stand in the gap before Me on behalf of the land, that I should not destroy it; but I found no one. 31 Therefore I have poured out My indignation on them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath; and I have recompensed their deeds on their own heads,” says the Lord God.

Re 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Scripture shows the Devil to SPECIFICALLY represent a persecuting King, and that it is MEN who walk, lurking around seeking whom they may devour!!

May 11, 2009 at 3:59 pm#130653

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ May 12 2009,03:42)

Quote (Gene @ May 11 2009,21:50)

peace and love to you and yours…………………gene

So Jesus. who admitted the existence of demons. is a liar according to you?

Hi Kirwin,

You are doing exactly what Nick does by saying that Gene does not believe in demons.

We believe in them we just don't DEFINE them as mainstream Christianity does.

IMO we choose to define them according to the scriptures and not according to the traditions of man!

May 11, 2009 at 7:14 pm#130656

Participant

Hi Jodi,
Your derivations using logic are thin.
I prefer the plain teachings of the Lord Jesus and his brothers.

May 11, 2009 at 7:17 pm#130658

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ May 09 2009,05:06)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 08 2009,18:37)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ May 07 2009,13:38)

I would like to argue that the Pharisees in the New Testament were indeed whores, prostituting themselves to false religion and denying the truth established in the Old Testament by God's faithful prophets. Likewise, Christians who believe that the inflicting demons in the Gospels are rebel spirits to God, have as well gone a whoring, blindingly following after the deceitful traditions of men, giving head to false prophets and false doctrine!!

Mt 12:24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.”

Beelzebub was the False god of the Philistines.

What does the bible tell us about false gods and their demons/evil spirits?

De 32:17 They sacrificed to demons, not to God, To gods they did not know, To new gods, new arrivals That your fathers did not fear.

Psalms 106: 28 They yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor and ate sacrifices offered to lifeless gods; 29 they provoked the Lord to anger by their wicked deeds, and a plague broke out among them.

Isa 37:19 They have thrown their gods into the fire and destroyed them, for they were not gods but only wood and stone, fashioned by human hands.

Isa 45:20 “Gather together and come; assemble, you fugitives from the nations. Ignorant are those who carry about idols of wood, who pray to gods that cannot save.

Jer 1:16 I will pronounce my judgments on my people because of their wickedness in forsaking me, in burning incense to other gods and in worshiping what their hands have made.

Jer 16:19 O Lord, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in time of distress, to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, “Our fathers possessed nothing but false gods, worthless idols that did them no good.

Jer 16:20 Do men make their own gods? Yes, but they are not gods!”

Da 5:23 Instead, you have set yourself up against the Lord of heaven. You had the goblets from his temple brought to you, and you and your nobles, your wives and your concubines drank wine from them. You praised the gods of silver and gold, of bronze, iron, wood and stone, which cannot see or hear or understand. But you did not honor the God who holds in his hand your life and all your ways.

Re 9:20 and the rest of men, who were not killed in these plagues, neither did reform from the works of their hands, that they may not bow before the demons, and idols, those of gold, and those of silver, and those of brass, and those of stone, and those of wood, that are neither able to see, nor to hear, nor to walk,

Demons cannot walk, they cannot talk, their powers are FAKE, but yet their deception by false prophets are REAL.

If these demons have NO power, then how on earth could they be fallen angels or some other sort of rebellious spirit?

There is NO evidence in the bible to suggest that the demons of False religions are fallen angels in disguise. On the contrary scripture directly tells us that the demons or evil spirits of false religions have NO power, YHWH alone brings blessing and Cursing. He sends forth angels who are His Faithful servants to infect people with evil spirits such as madness, blindness and deafness.

Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”

Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”

I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”

Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”

Deuteronomy 28 is such a telling chapter in the bible, it is just so unfortunate to see most Christians preferring to either dismiss it or rather flat out ignore it all together.

20 “The Lord will send on you cursing, confusion, and rebuke in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, because of the wickedness of your doings in which you have forsaken Me

28 The Lord will strike you with madness and blindness and confusion of heart. 29 And you shall grope at noonday, as a blind man gropes in darkness; you shall not prosper in your ways; you shall be only oppressed and plundered continually, and no one shall save you.

34 So you shall be driven mad because of the sight which your eyes see. 35 The Lord will strike you in the knees and on the legs with severe boils which cannot be healed, and from the sole of your foot to the top of your head. 36 The Lord will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you shall serve other gods–wood and stone.

Professing to be wise it seems most Christians are whores, following after the traditions of men. Paul gives warning-

1Co 10:19 What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything? 20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord's table and of the table of demons.

Not only do we see in the Old Testament false prophets teaching of false powers of gods and demons, we see this as well in the New Testament.

I Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Those deceiving spirits, the false prophets, were liars. They were whores just like the Pharisees believing in traditions of men and were as well creating new deceptions, which happen to be found today in Christian beliefs.

The Old Testament tells us that God sends evil unto people cursing them with madness and such things as blindness. So it would then seem clear that the evil spirits referred to as demons in the New Testament that are inflicting people with madness and such things as blindness, muteness, deafness, should be understood as God’s evil spirits. If evil spirits and unclean spirits are interchangeable with the word demon then we could refer to God’s spirits then as demons. God’s demons, or evil spirits are the only spirits with the power to bring on cursing and infliction.

Jodi,

While your point was well intended it wasn't actually accurate

Ephesians 6:11-13 (King James Version)

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against t
he rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Hello bodhitharta and thanks for joining this topic!

I disagree with how you understand Ephesians 6.

First let's give context. Paul is in prison, his adversary or Satan, is the King who is in a high position and thus dwells in a heavenly realm. Refer to Old Testament language and history where Kings are referred often as dwelling in heaven.

Why does Paul say we do not wrestle against flesh and blood. I believe that people automatically see this scripture under man's traditions from what they have been told rather then using Pauls own teachings to try and understand what Paul is saying. Paul speaks a lot about putting to death the body, that to be alive in Christ is to be dead to sin and the source of sin of which Paul so elequently tells us is when we follow our flesh and blood or in other words our carnal nature.

Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another–to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.

Romans 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Paul says this just after talking about a physical body and a spiritual body. We cannot inherit the kingdom under flesh and blood with a carnal mind, we must be spiritually minded.

If Christ is in us Paul teaches that our bodies are dead, we no longer wrestle against flesh and blood. Christ has died for our sins, so even though we cannot live a perfect life, sin and our carnal nature is to no longer rules over us, the deeds of the body have been put to death.

Ga 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Now here is the clincher scripture from Paul

2 Corinthians 10:1 Now I, Paul, myself am pleading with you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ–who in presence am lowly among you, but being absent am bold toward you. 2 But I beg you that when I am present I may not be bold with that confidence by which I intend to be bold against some, who think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.

Paul stated that even though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to it, for as Galatians says we have crucified the flesh. Our weapons are not carnal they are Spiritual they are in our mind, we use our mind to strengthen us and to keep us in the faith.

Context tells us that Paul in Ephesians 6 is warning the early Christians of upcoming persecution, of whom he has already been a victim of. Paul's brethren will need the whole armor of God to stand against the war that the Christians will face. This war is a mental one, will the they remain confident in the Spirit, or will they falter under persecution??

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Walking according to the course of the world is walking according to the ruler of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience. What is this spirit?? We are directly told what it is, it is the spirit in man of his carnal nature, the ignorant fool following after his instincts giving into the lust of the flesh.
By NATURE we are children of wrath, not by some invisible rebel spirits. Jesus said woe to the world for the offense, woe to man for by whom the offenses come. The ruler or prince of this world is the carnal driving force within everyman. Kings in their high places feed off of this spirit. This spirit dwells in the air for it is nothing but empty and unfruitful. Man's spirit NEEDS God's Spirit.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

Paul in both these examples uses air to represent emptiness.

Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Man can of his own self do nothing, he is full of emptiness, his mind according to his carnal nature is full of deceit, this is why it is said that we are “born children of wrath”, and “the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth”. Man needs the Spirit of God in him.

Man should not walk according to the course of the world, according to the ruler of this world which is man's carnal nature, because this spirit's power is of the air, meaning it is empty and worthless.

So with all this being said let's get back to

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle agains
t flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Devil means slanderer, the King in his heavenly place is falsely persecuting Christians. Christians must be mentally strong putting on the whole armor of God to be able to stand remaining faithful against their oppressor!

13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; 18 praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints–

To have the Spirit of God is to be in a mental state with God's understanding and truth working in you. The Christians need to prepare themselves not by means of protecting their flesh and blood, they are going to do war in their minds according to their oppressor who will CHALLENGE their faith.

John gives a revelation of warning as Paul did…

The Devil or Slanderer is not some rebel spirit, that Christian idea comes from the early pagan converts who formed the RCC and created Christian doctrine from interpreting scripture not through other scriptures but through their previously held pagan ideologies.

People need to come out of this deceitful doctrine.

The devil spoken of in Revelation is obviously the King. He is a slanderer because he follows after the dark spirit in man, the spirit that does anything to feed it's own flesh. It is the spirit of the air, holding nothing but emptiness and deceit. The King is following after his carnal nature and is a brute beast persecuting innocent people, putting some in jail and hanging thousands of others on a cross.

I find it truly unfortunate that people look at Ephesians 6 and all they can see is the deception that' s been handed down to them, believing that there exists some dark world we cannot see that's in the sky full of rebel spirits ready to curse and manipulate people. So unfortunate that people feed into ignorance and superstition, rather that forming biblical understanding from the bible itself!!

Jodi,

I do understand what you are saying and you are partially right because it does say that God will allow these types of things to happen to those who incur His wrath, however we can see plainly in Job that it is Satan who is carrying out these deeds.

also, you quoted a scripture 1 Timothy 4:1 which mentions deceiving Spirits and Doctrines of Demons.

Also, the scripture Re 9:20 says the demons, and the idols it is not talking about whether demons can walk, hear nor sea it is talking about the Idols cannot do those things. When you see a comma and a conjunction those things are separate. This is the same type of mistake when many read “Jesus Christ, and The True God. They will imagine that the scripture is calling Jesus “God” when in fact it is simply mentioning Jesus and then mentioning God.

I haven't been to the forum in the last day or so but God willing I will catch up with this conversation.

BTW,

Nice meeting you too!

May 11, 2009 at 7:32 pm#130663

Participant

Quote (Gene @ May 12 2009,02:50)

peace and love to you and yours…………………gene

So when Jesus cast out an unclean Spirit are you saying that God put the unclean spirit in there? That could not be because the point that Jesus was making about beelzebub casting out evil spirits causing his kingdom to fall would apply likewise if Jesus was casting out demons that God put in them on purpose.

May 11, 2009 at 7:37 pm#130665

Participant

Hi Nick,

and how would you define the god of this world exactly?

Philippians 3:17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame–who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

How would you define what's meant by, “whose god is their belly”?

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

I see a two party here NOT a three, it's just man and his mind and God and His. Notice the spirit of the world is the spirit of man. The nature of man is foolish and spiritually discerned. Notice it is man's wisdom that is in error, not some invisible influencing rebel spirit's wisdom.

May 11, 2009 at 7:49 pm#130666

Participant

Hi Jodi,
It is hard for you to separate the weak vessel from the strongman controlling him.
Jesus came to set men free.

May 11, 2009 at 8:07 pm#130667

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ May 12 2009,07:37)

Hi Nick,

and how would you define the god of this world exactly?

How would you define what's meant by, “whose god is their belly”?

Acts 19:14-16 (King James Version)

14And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

May 11, 2009 at 8:10 pm#130668

Participant

Jodi,

What in your opinion is a Familiar Spirit?

May 11, 2009 at 8:28 pm#130674

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 12 2009,07:32)

Quote (Gene @ May 12 2009,02:50)

peace and love to you and yours…………………gene

Hello, bodhitharta,

Matthew 12:24 Now when the Pharisees heard it they said, “This fellow does not cast out demons except by Beelzebub, the ruler of the demons.” 25 But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out?

It does seem a little confusing doesn't it, but please give this some thought,

The Old Testament particularly Deuteronomy, like in chapter 28, the scriptures tell us that God makes people mad, blind, deaf, and dumb as a form of punishment. God as well, as an additional punishment to the people, tells them that these diseases inflicting them will also be passed down through their families generations.

bodhitharta, when Jesus is healing people from sicknesses and diseases he is healing people from what was God's inflictions. God is not to be compared to the false god beelzebub. God inflicts and heals people as He sees fit under a righteous purpose, so what Jesus was saying to the Pharisees would not apply to His Father.

We see in the Old Testament, actually I gave an example of this early today from Chronicles, that God would curse the Israelites and then He would have mercy on them taking away the plagues.

When God curses and then heals does that mean He is divided against Himself? No of course it doesn't He is Righteous God, and that which He does has a righteous purpose.

Jesus knew the Pharisees thoughts it says. The Pharisees believed strictly that beelzebub was an evil supernatural force, so with that belief of which Jesus knew, makes it understandable why he would tell them how he could not be beelzebub. Forces of evil are forces of evil, they wouldn't heal otherwise they would be divided against itself.

I hope that makes sense.

May 11, 2009 at 8:56 pm#130675

Participant

Hi Jodi,
Reliance on the OT alone does not allow the light of Jesus Christ to illuminate the words.
We follow Jesus who shows us from his storehouse things old and new.

May 11, 2009 at 9:21 pm#130679

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 12 2009,08:07)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ May 12 2009,07:37)

Hi Nick,

and how would you define the god of this world exactly?

How would you define what's meant by, “whose god is their belly”?

Acts 19:14-16 (King James Version)

14And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.

15And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?

16And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Romans 16:18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Man is said to serve his fleshly desires,

Romans 13:11 And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. 12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly, as in the day, not in revelry and drunkenness, not in lewdness and lust, not in strife and envy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.

Ro 8:6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;

If man is not controlled by the Spirit he is controlled by the desires of his flesh, thus making him a slave to his flesh, thus his flesh rules over him and is his god.

Philippians 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Those who set their minds on earthly things are thus being CARNALLY minded, their god is their belly and their end is destruction because to be carnally minded is death.

Ro 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

Mt 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

Jesus shows the other master besides God to be man's own fleshly desires….such as selfishness and greed.

Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, F20 drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

All throughout the bible we see the idea of TWO masters, One being God and the other being our fleshly desires.

As far as Acts is concerned, knowing what people are capable of doing while their minds are inflicted with an evil spirit or mental disorder, the scripture makes complete sense to me. The person inflicted is not consciously aware of his behavior the disease has taken over his brain and has made him mad. This is entirely different from people who SERVE, as if it were a god, their sinful fleshly desires and intentionally hurt and oppress other people in the process.

May 11, 2009 at 9:27 pm#130680

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2009,08:56)

Hi Jodi,
Reliance on the OT alone does not allow the light of Jesus Christ to illuminate the words.
We follow Jesus who shows us from his storehouse things old and new.

Hi Nick,

I believe you mistakenly addressed this to me, not exactly sure who you meant it for? You know well I don't rely on the OT, I'm constantly seen here on this forum using the New!! Anyone reading my posts knows that.

May 11, 2009 at 9:30 pm#130682

Participant

Hi Jodi,
You really need to go beyond the study of man and listen to Jesus as he shows the spiritual influences on his behaviours

May 11, 2009 at 9:53 pm#130685

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 12 2009,09:30)

Hi Jodi,
You really need to go beyond the study of man and listen to Jesus as he shows the spiritual influences on his behaviours

These sort of comments are obviously beyond getting old, and everyone knows they don't really put you in the best light.

My process of study is to read the bible and think about what it says, and reach conclusions as to what I believe, then continue studying the scriptures testing and proving those conclusions, and modifying or changing them if necessary. We all hope that God is guiding us in the right direction.

So don't tell me I DON'T listen to Jesus, I quote him all the time, which you are firmly aware of, thus making you a devil. I may understand his teachings differently then you do, that hardly means that I don't listen to him.

May 11, 2009 at 10:08 pm#130687

Participant

Hi Jodi,
Jesus taught about the dominion of darkness and the devil but you cannot accept his words.
Why do you keep quoting him then?

May 12, 2009 at 1:52 am#130703

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ May 12 2009,08:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ May 12 2009,07:32)

Quote (Gene @ May 12 2009,02:50)

peace and love to you and yours…………………gene

Hello, bodhitharta,

It does seem a little confusing doesn't it, but please give this some thought,

We see in the Old Testament, actually I gave an example of this early today from Chronicles, that God would curse the Israelites and then He would have mercy on them taking away the plagues.

When God curses and then heals does that mean He is divided against Himself? No of course it doesn't He is Righteous God, and that which He does has a righteous purpose.

I hope that makes sense.

With the Israelites God says if they change their ways and repent He would heal them but what we have in the cases in the new testaments are people who have not changed anything, they are “under the control of these spirits” and they are cast out. Even Jesus says that some will not be cast out except with much prayer and fasting”

Why is it hard for you to believe that spirits of any type can go rogue? Satan did.

May 12, 2009 at 1:57 am#130705