- This topic is empty.
- Posts
ONE priest said he learnt more about God from Alcoholics Anonymous meetings than the Catholic Church. Another compared the fervour of World Youth Day to the Hitler Youth.
And a 47-year-old, whose only ambition had been to be a priest, said: ''Given the state of the church today, I look forward to the night when I go to sleep and just don't wake up again.”
Such were the varied, often frank and sometimes bleak views of Australia's Catholic clergy revealed in an anonymous survey.
The Charles Sturt University academics Chris McGillion and John O'Carroll approached 1550 active and 160 retired priests for their views on their lives and their church, and 542 took part in the written survey.
The results, plus 50 face-to-face interviews, were the basis of their book Our Fathers, which revealed that many thought the Vatican was out of touch, bishops were bad managers and the future of the church was a cause of great concern.
''You've got a very representative group of mainstream priests responding,'' said Mr McGillion, a former Herald journalist.
What emerged was a priesthood in a professional crisis, rather than a vocational one, he said. While 90.2 per cent said their lives as priests had been fulfilling, 47.4 per cent found the workload ''excessive'' and 54.3 per cent thought they had too little say in the life of the church.
Only 35.4 per cent thought bishops were doing a good job, with one saying their performance was ''between poor and mediocre''. But 43 per cent did not feel nurtured by their bishop while 41.5 per cent did.
Almost 65 per cent did not think Rome understood the challenges facing priests and 70.1 per cent thought it often failed to understand the nature of the Australian church.
This schism was reflected in the respondents' views on church teachings. Only 19.2 per cent thought it sinful for married couples to use birth control.
Almost 70 per cent thought abortion was always a sin but only 40.2 per cent said the same of sex before marriage. More than 70 per cent thought celibacy for priests should be optional and several priests made ''no secret of the fact they were in long-term committed relationships with women''.
Lay involvement was seen as the church's greatest internal challenge, with many acutely aware of – and affected by – dwindling attendances.
The general secretary of the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference, Father Brian Lucas, would not comment on the survey, saying he had not seen the book.
A spokeswoman for the Archbishop of Sydney, Cardinal George Pell, was given a copy this week but would not comment yet.
t8
I am not at all surprised at these polls.
I think that people used to think, and some still do, that becoming a priest was a calling from God.
I say it is a profession that is learned like any other profession, the only thing that you have to have to qualify is, you have to be a good speaker.
I for one have never felt comfortable to go to confession to a man; I wonder how many people feel that way today.
Than you have to expect that there are people that actually read the Bible, and see the contradiction, which then the priest has to explain.
I don't think that this problem exists in Australia only.
I also believe that none Catholic churches are more popular, because they promise the rapture.Georg
all
Ps 9:10 Those who know your name will trust in you,
for you, LORD, have never forsaken those who seek you.
Ps 13:5 But I trust in your unfailing love;
Ps 25:2 in you I trust, O my God.
Do not let me be put to shamePs 31:6 I hate those who cling to worthless idols;
I trust in the LORD.
Ps 31:14 But I trust in you, O LORD?
I say, “You are my God.”
Ps 33:21 In him our hearts rejoice,
for we trust in his holy name.
Ps 37:3 Trust in the LORD and do goodPs 37:5 Commit your way to the LORD?
trust in him and he will do this:
Ps 40:3 He put a new song in my mouth,
a hymn of praise to our God.
Many will see and fear
and put their trust in the LORD.
Ps 40:4 Blessed is the man
who makes the LORD his trust,
who does not look to the proud,
to those who turn aside to false gods.
Ps 44:6 I do not trust in my bow,
my sword does not bring me victory;
Ps 49:6 those who trust in their wealth
and boast of their great riches?
Ps 49:13 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves,
and of their followers, who approve their sayings.Selah
Ps 52:8 But I am like an olive tree
flourishing in the house of God;
I trust in God’s unfailing love
for ever and everthis they fail to do ,
Ps 55:23 But you, O God, will bring down the wicked
into the pit of corruption;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
will not live out half their days.
But as for me, I trust in you.
Ps 56:3 When I am afraid,
I will trust in you.those words are speaking for themselves
Pierre
t8 We have a Catholic here on HN, and having a conversation with Him, He told me that He had send several letters to the Bishop complaining of errors in the Church. They have done nothing about it I second Georg that since they changed from Latin into each Countries languages the Catholics today have educated themselves, and know how wrong some of their doctrines are. Many have left the Church. Before we left, we compared Scriptures, and at one point, the Priest told Georg;” God is calling you.” He to was aware, but I think He was to involved to leave.
I hope that the Priest who said that the Youth is like the Hitler Youth, is wrong. I still have Relatives in Germany. I never talked to them about the Catholic Church, but the next time I will ask my Cousin. They belong to the Church. Have been all their lives….
Peace and love IreneQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2011,23:10) all Ps 9:10 Those who know your name will trust in you,
for you, LORD, have never forsaken those who seek you.
Ps 13:5 But I trust in your unfailing love;
Ps 25:2 in you I trust, O my God.
Do not let me be put to shamePs 31:6 I hate those who cling to worthless idols;
I trust in the LORD.
Ps 31:14 But I trust in you, O LORD?
I say, “You are my God.”
Ps 33:21 In him our hearts rejoice,
for we trust in his holy name.
Ps 37:3 Trust in the LORD and do goodPs 37:5 Commit your way to the LORD?
trust in him and he will do this:
Ps 40:3 He put a new song in my mouth,
a hymn of praise to our God.
Many will see and fear
and put their trust in the LORD.
Ps 40:4 Blessed is the man
who makes the LORD his trust,
who does not look to the proud,
to those who turn aside to false gods.
Ps 44:6 I do not trust in my bow,
my sword does not bring me victory;
Ps 49:6 those who trust in their wealth
and boast of their great riches?
Ps 49:13 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves,
and of their followers, who approve their sayings.Selah
Ps 52:8 But I am like an olive tree
flourishing in the house of God;
I trust in God’s unfailing love
for ever and everthis they fail to do ,
Ps 55:23 But you, O God, will bring down the wicked
into the pit of corruption;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
will not live out half their days.
But as for me, I trust in you.
Ps 56:3 When I am afraid,
I will trust in you.those words are speaking for themselves
Pierre
Pierre! You don't know the peoples heart. I think that judging them, when we don;t know, is wrong. I had several conversation with Mark, and most Catholics really don't know. Some do, but that is not the majority.
Why do you find it so important to do?
Let God do that….We are not their judge. Those who do are judged already. Maybe you need to take that to heart….Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 03 2011,02:26) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 28 2011,23:10) all Ps 9:10 Those who know your name will trust in you,
for you, LORD, have never forsaken those who seek you.
Ps 13:5 But I trust in your unfailing love;
Ps 25:2 in you I trust, O my God.
Do not let me be put to shamePs 31:6 I hate those who cling to worthless idols;
I trust in the LORD.
Ps 31:14 But I trust in you, O LORD?
I say, “You are my God.”
Ps 33:21 In him our hearts rejoice,
for we trust in his holy name.
Ps 37:3 Trust in the LORD and do goodPs 37:5 Commit your way to the LORD?
trust in him and he will do this:
Ps 40:3 He put a new song in my mouth,
a hymn of praise to our God.
Many will see and fear
and put their trust in the LORD.
Ps 40:4 Blessed is the man
who makes the LORD his trust,
who does not look to the proud,
to those who turn aside to false gods.
Ps 44:6 I do not trust in my bow,
my sword does not bring me victory;
Ps 49:6 those who trust in their wealth
and boast of their great riches?
Ps 49:13 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves,
and of their followers, who approve their sayings.Selah
Ps 52:8 But I am like an olive tree
flourishing in the house of God;
I trust in God’s unfailing love
for ever and everthis they fail to do ,
Ps 55:23 But you, O God, will bring down the wicked
into the pit of corruption;
bloodthirsty and deceitful men
will not live out half their days.
But as for me, I trust in you.
Ps 56:3 When I am afraid,
I will trust in you.those words are speaking for themselves
Pierre
Pierre! You don't know the peoples heart. I think that judging them, when we don;t know, is wrong. I had several conversation with Mark, and most Catholics really don't know. Some do, but that is not the majority.
Why do you find it so important to do? Let God do that….We are not their judge. Those who do are judged already. Maybe you need to take that to heart….Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Peace and Love Irene
Ireneare you still catholic?? if yes then you right ,
if not are the catholics your brothers ?? not mine,
are Muslims your brothers ?? not mine
but i will always have a open mine and a will to help them.
anyone who is not true in Christ is not of my family.
righteousness,truth,holiness,faith,obedience,trust,are not emotions, they are actions.
Pierre
Irene
look in the past of the Israelites,they paid because they went there own way,
and were not bad people !!!! what is a bad person? in men eyes ? or in Gods eyes? not the same is it??
Pierre
Pierre! You don't know the peoples heart. I think that judging them, when we don;t know, is wrong. I had several conversation with Mark, and most Catholics really don't know. Some do, but that is not the majority.
Why do you find it so important to do? Let God do that….We are not their judge. Those who do are judged already. Maybe you need to take that to heart….Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Peace and Love Irene[/quote]
Ireneare you still catholic?? if yes then you right ,
if not are the catholics your brothers ?? not mine,
are Muslims your brothers ?? not mine
but i will always have a open mine and a will to help them.
anyone who is not true in Christ is not of my family.
righteousness,truth,holiness,faith,obedience,trust,are not emotions, they are actions.
Pierre[/quote]
Pierre! We left the Catholic Church in 1984, never returned. I do have relatives in Germany who belong there. And Mark is a loving person. say to you leave the judgment to God. Mark knows how wrong they are.
Jesus also told us to love our enemies and pray for those who despise us. Our Son goes to the Baptist Church. I can't tell him what to do, I tried, but to get into an argument is wrong, so I pray for all our family, and don't judge them!!!!!Peace Irene
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 04 2011,15:14) Pierre! You don't know the peoples heart. I think that judging them, when we don;t know, is wrong. I had several conversation with Mark, and most Catholics really don't know. Some do, but that is not the majority.
Why do you find it so important to do? Let God do that….We are not their judge. Those who do are judged already. Maybe you need to take that to heart….Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Peace and Love Irene[/quote]
Ireneare you still catholic?? if yes then you right ,
if not are the catholics your brothers ?? not mine,
are Muslims your brothers ?? not mine
but i will always have a open mine and a will to help them.
anyone who is not true in Christ is not of my family.
righteousness,truth,holiness,faith,obedience,trust,are not emotions, they are actions.
Pierre[/quote]
Pierre! We left the Catholic Church in 1984, never returned. I do have relatives in Germany who belong there. And Mark is a loving person. say to you leave the judgment to God. Mark knows how wrong they are.
Jesus also told us to love our enemies and pray for those who despise us. Our Son goes to the Baptist Church. I can't tell him what to do, I tried, but to get into an argument is wrong, so I pray for all our family, and don't judge them!!!!!Peace Irene
Irenecould you or georg,explain me what it mean to love your enemy??
and who is the enemy??
and who are the brothers and sisters??
Pierre
Irene
Pierre[/quote]
Pierre! We left the Catholic Church in 1984, never returned. I do have relatives in Germany who belong there. And Mark is a loving person. say to you leave the judgment to God. Mark knows how wrong they are.
Jesus also told us to love our enemies and pray for those who despise us. Our Son goes to the Baptist Church. I can't tell him what to do, I tried, but to get into an argument is wrong, so I pray for all our family, and don't judge them!!!!!Peace Irene
======================================
i do not jusge anyone ,but at the same time ,wen people tell me scriptures quotes and they are not in line with truth ,then i feel i have the right to respond.
what people do with or in there live is not my affaire ,like you say they have to take full responsibility for there action,sons,daugters,or any,
and we do not know who and why God pick one or the other ,but we know that scriptures says that all will come to judgement either in the second resurrection or in our live time and so be in the first resurrection.Just understand that your actions are direct related to you spirit mind and hearth ,we can say manythings and the actions will define better our real intention.
Mk 3:35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”
and this is why it is importante to ;Mt 18:35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”
Pierre
Pierre! It is not our place to judge anyone, even by Scriptures. Who is our enemy? Anybody that does not like us, or those who you consider not your Brothers or Sisters, you should pray for, rather then to judge them. We do not have that right. We can not call any one to Christ, only our Heavenly Father can. Since you know that we all come before the Judgment of God, then you should also know that you should not judge anybody, right? Pray rather for them…..Many are called, but few are chosen…..so make your calling sure, do what God wants you to do….Jesus said if you judge others, the same way you will be judged. Of hand i don't know where that Scripture is, andI need to go ….
Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Mar. 04 2011,17:51) Pierre! It is not our place to judge anyone, even by Scriptures. Who is our enemy? Anybody that does not like us, or those who you consider not your Brothers or Sisters, you should pray for, rather then to judge them. We do not have that right. We can not call any one to Christ, only our Heavenly Father can. Since you know that we all come before the Judgment of God, then you should also know that you should not judge anybody, right? Pray rather for them…..Many are called, but few are chosen…..so make your calling sure, do what God wants you to do….Jesus said if you judge others, the same way you will be judged. Of hand i don't know where that Scripture is, andI need to go ….
Peace Irene
IreneI will never judge a person of not being in tittle to be saved by God.
this is only God that can do that,
I always help my fellow men if i can ,i will always be nice to all kind of people no matter there race,color or language,as for people that are in direct oposition to Gods law and known to me to be so ,i will avoid them,and they always have avoid me too,because all people around me know my faith and believes.
but those are not my brothers only a could be brother,
Paul says to stay separated from the world ,so is Christ,and Peter,
Pierre
Quote (Baker @ Mar. 04 2011,17:51) Pierre! It is not our place to judge anyone, even by Scriptures. Who is our enemy? Anybody that does not like us, or those who you consider not your Brothers or Sisters, you should pray for, rather then to judge them. We do not have that right. We can not call any one to Christ, only our Heavenly Father can. Since you know that we all come before the Judgment of God, then you should also know that you should not judge anybody, right? Pray rather for them…..Many are called, but few are chosen…..so make your calling sure, do what God wants you to do….Jesus said if you judge others, the same way you will be judged. Of hand i don't know where that Scripture is, andI need to go ….
Peace Irene
Ireneour enemy is not the flesh but the spirit of it ,i think you do not understand all the things you are saying to me ,
the world is enmity toward God and so as to be rejected ,
so love your enemy means the soul ,the spirit who defile it self
and who is like Satan a adversary of God,
Pierre
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
