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Nick,
If you read Philippians chapter 2 verses 5-10 it says:
“Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himaelf nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth.”
You keep saying that Jesus is lesser and that he serves the Father. However this passage in Philippians clearly states that Jesus had the choice to be unequal to God and because of that choice he was exalted by the Father. Now if Jesus had the power to choose such a position, how could he TRULY be lesser than God? In order to have the power to choose to be lesser he had to have been equal to God because God would not let something lesser shoose such a fate. Since there is only one God (which you and I can agree on) Jesus would have to be God to have that kind of power.
TC27
TC27 said to Nick:
Quote You keep saying that Jesus is lesser and that he serves the Father. However this passage in Philippians clearly states that Jesus had the choice to be unequal to God and because of that choice he was exalted by the Father. Now if Jesus had the power to choose such a position, how could he TRULY be lesser than God? In order to have the power to choose to be lesser he had to have been equal to God because God would not let something lesser shoose such a fate. Since there is only one God (which you and I can agree on) Jesus would have to be God to have that kind of power. TC27,
Excellent post!! I never thought of that. Christ's choice to be lesser than God proves He was equal with God. Your logic is impeccable.Well done!
thinker
Hi TT,
So part of God chose to be less that God and become a man?
My God is not a man.You are getting confused with humanism.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,11:37) Hi TC,
We do not design our God according to logic applied to scripture.
Nick,Everything you have said so far is based upon your logic. I have not seen any solid Scripture from you that supports your point. What you have said is not an answer. One who is truly less than God does not have the choice to be less than God. Jesus died and bled and suffered. That is my God. The one who loved me enough to die. You give no credit where it is due.
Quote (thethinker @ June 30 2009,07:31) TC27 said to Nick: Quote You keep saying that Jesus is lesser and that he serves the Father. However this passage in Philippians clearly states that Jesus had the choice to be unequal to God and because of that choice he was exalted by the Father. Now if Jesus had the power to choose such a position, how could he TRULY be lesser than God? In order to have the power to choose to be lesser he had to have been equal to God because God would not let something lesser shoose such a fate. Since there is only one God (which you and I can agree on) Jesus would have to be God to have that kind of power. TC27,
Excellent post!! I never thought of that. Christ's choice to be lesser than God proves He was equal with God. Your logic is impeccable.Well done!
thinker
If you will do a word study on “harpagmos” you will find it is used many times in the old testament in one form or another, and ALWAYS references force, robbery, rape, murder, and taking because of strength, not of right.Jesus, being in a form of God, did not consider equality with God his by right of force. There is no question of equality by choice anywhere in the passage.
Quote (thethinker @ June 30 2009,07:31) TC27 said to Nick: Quote You keep saying that Jesus is lesser and that he serves the Father. However this passage in Philippians clearly states that Jesus had the choice to be unequal to God and because of that choice he was exalted by the Father. Now if Jesus had the power to choose such a position, how could he TRULY be lesser than God? In order to have the power to choose to be lesser he had to have been equal to God because God would not let something lesser shoose such a fate. Since there is only one God (which you and I can agree on) Jesus would have to be God to have that kind of power. TC27,
Excellent post!! I never thought of that. Christ's choice to be lesser than God proves He was equal with God. Your logic is impeccable.Well done!
thinker
Did you see this?Quote (Paladin @ June 30 2009,07:53) Quote (thethinker @ June 30 2009,07:31) TC27 said to Nick: Quote You keep saying that Jesus is lesser and that he serves the Father. However this passage in Philippians clearly states that Jesus had the choice to be unequal to God and because of that choice he was exalted by the Father. Now if Jesus had the power to choose such a position, how could he TRULY be lesser than God? In order to have the power to choose to be lesser he had to have been equal to God because God would not let something lesser shoose such a fate. Since there is only one God (which you and I can agree on) Jesus would have to be God to have that kind of power. TC27,
Excellent post!! I never thought of that. Christ's choice to be lesser than God proves He was equal with God. Your logic is impeccable.Well done!
thinker
If you will do a word study on “harpagmos” you will find it is used many times in the old testament in one form or another, and ALWAYS references force, robbery, rape, murder, and taking because of strength, not of right.Jesus, being in a form of God, did not consider equality with God his by right of force. There is no question of equality by choice anywhere in the passage.
Paladin,
If what you say is true then Christ's “attitude” is not really exemplary. Paul calls on us to emulate Christ's example. I can do this only by giving up what is truly and properly mine. You just don't get it. Furthermore, you ignored Paul's use of the middle voice. Jesus acted upon HIMSELF. He made HIMSELF nothing.TC's logic is impeccable. So face it man. TC hung Nick out to dry.
thinker
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ June 30 2009,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,11:37) Hi TC,
We do not design our God according to logic applied to scripture.
Nick,Everything you have said so far is based upon your logic. I have not seen any solid Scripture from you that supports your point. What you have said is not an answer. One who is truly less than God does not have the choice to be less than God. Jesus died and bled and suffered. That is my God. The one who loved me enough to die. You give no credit where it is due.
Hi TC,
Offer one verse that teaches God is a trinity and we can dialogue on solid ground.Jesus said
'Thy word is truth'but you prefer traditional teachings and greek logic??
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ June 30 2009,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,11:37) Hi TC,
We do not design our God according to logic applied to scripture.
Nick,Everything you have said so far is based upon your logic. I have not seen any solid Scripture from you that supports your point. What you have said is not an answer. One who is truly less than God does not have the choice to be less than God. Jesus died and bled and suffered. That is my God. The one who loved me enough to die. You give no credit where it is due.
Hi TC,
If Jesus is your God then who is His God?
[Jn20.17]Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ June 30 2009,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,11:37) Hi TC,
We do not design our God according to logic applied to scripture.
Nick,Everything you have said so far is based upon your logic. I have not seen any solid Scripture from you that supports your point. What you have said is not an answer. One who is truly less than God does not have the choice to be less than God. Jesus died and bled and suffered. That is my God. The one who loved me enough to die. You give no credit where it is due.
Jesus did not choose to be less than God, Jesus clearly said that the “Father is greater than I” He didn't say I chose the Father to be greater than me.Also if you say Jesus is your God then keep in mind that your God(Jesus) did not want to die for you he said it was not his will to die for you. Jesus said nevertheless not his will but The Will of His Father so get that straight Jesus only did what was pleasing to God never himself.
So you call on Jesus when you die and say “God Jesus, save me” and when you do you are going to find out he is going to outright reject you and say he does not know you because as Jesus clearly stated not everyone who says lord. lord shall be saved but only those who do the will of The Father
and then again inm scri[pture pertaining to God Almighty (Our Father and God) The scripture says “everyone” who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. So obviously The will of The Father is Absolute. Even Jesus says “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”
You should really repent from the evil you have spoken.
Hi BD,
What God wants is that you believe in the one He has sent, Jesus Christ, the anointed Son of God.
Not raising human religious leaders to be above the appointed Lord of all.bodhitharta said:
Quote Jesus did not choose to be less than God, Jesus clearly said that the “Father is greater than I” He didn't say I chose the Father to be greater than me. bd,
How do you know? You believe the Jewish scriptures have been tampered with. So Jesus may not have said that the Father was greater than Him. That narrative could have been tampered with. John 5 says that Jesus made Himself equal with God. Maybe that narrative was tampered with.Why would you argue form a document you believe has been tampered with? It makes no sense at all. You gave up your ability to persuade people from the Scriptures the moment you claimed that the Quran says that they have been tampered with. No one will believe what you say about anything. You are wasting your time.
thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2009,13:09) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ June 30 2009,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,11:37) Hi TC,
We do not design our God according to logic applied to scripture.
Nick,Everything you have said so far is based upon your logic. I have not seen any solid Scripture from you that supports your point. What you have said is not an answer. One who is truly less than God does not have the choice to be less than God. Jesus died and bled and suffered. That is my God. The one who loved me enough to die. You give no credit where it is due.
Jesus did not choose to be less than God, Jesus clearly said that the “Father is greater than I” He didn't say I chose the Father to be greater than me.Also if you say Jesus is your God then keep in mind that your God(Jesus) did not want to die for you he said it was not his will to die for you. Jesus said nevertheless not his will but The Will of His Father so get that straight Jesus only did what was pleasing to God never himself.
So you call on Jesus when you die and say “God Jesus, save me” and when you do you are going to find out he is going to outright reject you and say he does not know you because as Jesus clearly stated not everyone who says lord. lord shall be saved but only those who do the will of The Father
and then again inm scri[pture pertaining to God Almighty (Our Father and God) The scripture says “everyone” who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. So obviously The will of The Father is Absolute. Even Jesus says “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”
You should really repent from the evil you have spoken.
Bod,You clearly have not read Philippians chapter 2 then, where it says he made himself nothing. That implies he did it of his own free will. Your point about the Father being greater is true, but what you fail to see is that Jesus chose that position. One with a choice such as that must have authority. Christ was exalted because of his humble choice and he was lifted up. One with the ability to chose cannot be lesser than God. TRULY.
TC27
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,14:27) Hi TC,
So God became nothing?
Not my God.
Nick,Yes. That is what I am saying. However, the fact that He chose to become nothing and take on human likeness proves his humility and his love. Therefore he is greatest in the kingdom of heaven and on earth and therefore deserves all worship and praise.
TC27
Hi TC,
To whom did the Almighty Creator God need to prove his humility and love?
I think you are confusing Him with His obedient and faithful Son.Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ June 30 2009,09:32) Quote (bodhitharta @ June 29 2009,13:09) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ June 30 2009,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,11:37) Hi TC,
We do not design our God according to logic applied to scripture.
Nick,Everything you have said so far is based upon your logic. I have not seen any solid Scripture from you that supports your point. What you have said is not an answer. One who is truly less than God does not have the choice to be less than God. Jesus died and bled and suffered. That is my God. The one who loved me enough to die. You give no credit where it is due.
Jesus did not choose to be less than God, Jesus clearly said that the “Father is greater than I” He didn't say I chose the Father to be greater than me.Also if you say Jesus is your God then keep in mind that your God(Jesus) did not want to die for you he said it was not his will to die for you. Jesus said nevertheless not his will but The Will of His Father so get that straight Jesus only did what was pleasing to God never himself.
So you call on Jesus when you die and say “God Jesus, save me” and when you do you are going to find out he is going to outright reject you and say he does not know you because as Jesus clearly stated not everyone who says lord. lord shall be saved but only those who do the will of The Father
and then again inm scri[pture pertaining to God Almighty (Our Father and God) The scripture says “everyone” who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. So obviously The will of The Father is Absolute. Even Jesus says “Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”
You should really repent from the evil you have spoken.
Bod,You clearly have not read Philippians chapter 2 then, where it says he made himself nothing. That implies he did it of his own free will. Your point about the Father being greater is true, but what you fail to see is that Jesus chose that position. One with a choice such as that must have authority. Christ was exalted because of his humble choice and he was lifted up. One with the ability to chose cannot be lesser than God. TRULY.
TC27
Just to let you know, humility and humbleness requires you to empty yourself. Yes he was humble of his free will as he was also obedient of his free will just like you are obedient of your free will, You choose your position as a servant of God too.But then you say Christ was exalted because of the choices he made. God is not exalted by anyone because God is Most High.
TC27,
Now that I know that you consider yourself God because you have the ability to choose, should I call you God now?
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ June 30 2009,14:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 29 2009,14:27) Hi TC,
So God became nothing?
Not my God.
Nick,Yes. That is what I am saying. However, the fact that He chose to become nothing and take on human likeness proves his humility and his love. Therefore he is greatest in the kingdom of heaven and on earth and therefore deserves all worship and praise.
TC27
God doesn't need a “therefore” to be the greatest in The Kingdom of Heaven as He Owns The King dom of Heaven in fact God is lord of all the worlds.Your view of God is diluted and weak, perhaps it justifies your own weaknessess?
bodhitharta said to TC27:
Quote Just to let you know, humility and humbleness requires you to empty yourself. Yes he was humble of his free will as he was also obedient of his free will just like you are obedient of your free will, You choose your position as a servant of God too. But then you say Christ was exalted because of the choices he made. God is not exalted by anyone because God is Most High.
TC27,
Now that I know that you consider yourself God because you have the ability to choose, should I call you God now?
bd,
Now you agree that Paul taught that Jesus humbled Himself. But you believe that Paul was a self proclaimed liar. You are the most confused person on this board.thinker
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