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Hi BD,
Jesus died by hanging on a tree.
Read the holy scriptures.Your teacher has been lying to you.
Why would our God highly favour one you think was blind and deceived?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,14:15) Hi BD,
Jesus died by hanging on a tree.
Read the holy scriptures.Your teacher has been lying to you.
Why would our God highly favour one you think was blind and deceived?
God is no respector of personsQuote (thethinker @ July 11 2009,19:28) Quote (Gene @ July 11 2009,17:02) thinker…….We are told that GOD so loved the world that (HE) gave His uniquely begotten Son. Jesus is also called the Lamb of GOD. And now is before the throne of GOD as a Slain Lamb. Jesus was Slain from the foundations of the world we are told , it was GOD the Fathers Plan all along to redeem the world through The Sacrifice of Jesus. As scripture says. For you are purchased with a price and that price is the blood of Jesus offered for the forgiveness of sins of the world. Had GOD the FATHER not required this sacrifice Jesus would have never given it. “for without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin”. Why do you Trinitarians and Preexistences constantly try to deal the FATHER out of the Salvation Process, something Jesus never did. IMO peace and love to you thinker……………………..gene
Gene,
Trinitarians do not deal the Father out of His role in salvation. Trinitarians deny that salvation is all of the Father. Anti-trinitarians deny that Jesus had His own role. His name is called “Jesus” for “HE shall save HIS people from their sins.” You deny pre-existence and then say that Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world. I can't figure you out.I gave you Hebrews 8 and you deny it. It says that the high priest was “appointed” to offer the sacrifices. Therefore, the Father did not. This was the law of Moses. Jesus was the high priest. He fulfilled the law of Moses by offering up the sacrifice Himself. The Father had nothing to do with it except to accept or reject the sacrifice. We know He accepted it.
thinker
Very Good thinker!To say Jesus was slain from the beginning, is simply a reference to God's plan from before creation.
Jesus references one of several things that were prepared before the world was created:
HIDDEN WISDOM TO BE REVEALED FOR OUR GLORY:
1 Cor 2:7 “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained BEFORE THE WORLD unto our glory:” OUR glory is a reference to “US,” but “WE” were not present before the beginning of the world were we?CHOSE US IN CHRIST BEFORE THERE WAS A CHRIST:
Eph 1:4 “According as he hath chosen us in him BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:” Again, “US” is a reference to who was chosen, and it includes “WE” who are alive to read this post, and WE were chosen before the world was founded, but WE were not present with God prior to the creation, were we?ORDAINED GOOD WORKS FOR THE SAINTS TO PERFORM:
Eph 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath BEFORE ORDAINED that we should walk in them.” God foreordained good works for who? For “US.” WHEN? Before the “US” became a reality.CALLED US WITH A HOLY CALLING IN CHRIST BEFORE THE WORLD WAS: 2 Tim 1:9 “Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN,” Who was given this holy calling? “US.” WHEN were we given this calling? BEFORE the world began. But, we were not present with God before the world began, were we?
PROMISED US ETERNAL LIFE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS:
Titus 1:2 “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN;” God promised US what? ETERNAL LIFE. WHEN was this promise given? Before the world began. TO WHOM was this promise given? TO “US.”PREPARED A SACRIFICIAL LAMB BEFORE THE WORLD WAS:
1 Pet 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but was manifest in these last times for you,PROMISED JESUS GLORY BEFORE THE WORLD WAS:
AS EXPRESSED IN ISAIAH 52:13 Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high. AND FULFILLED IN John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. And John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.WHICH SERVED AS INCENTIVE FOR JESUS TO FULFILL HIS MISSION: Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who FOR THE JOY that was SET BEFORE HIM endured the cross, DESPISING the SHAME, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT JESUS WAS RELUCTANT TO SUFFER THE DEATH PREPARED FOR HIM?
Heb 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;Col 1:16 is a reference to the fact that Jesus made changes in the universe; specifically in the realm of heavenly authorities; WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers.
COL 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, WHETHER THEY BE thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.Jesus is “before all things” because he was elevated to first position in the creation, as the first one to be raised from the dead, without an intermediate prophet; and the first one raised from the dead to die no more. Col 1: 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
When Jonah preached to Ninevah that their city would be destroyed in forty days, the citizens of Ninevah repented, and God adjusted the timeing of the judgment on them for one generation, which is how long it took for the next generation of citizens to rebel against God. It was an adjustment to the age of their destruction.
The Hebrew author recognizes that when the Mosaic dispensation (old covenant) ended, and the new covenant began, it was another “adjustment” of the ages. THAT is the reference of Heb 1:2 and Heb 11:3
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the aiwns [ages];
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the aiwns [worlds] were [adjusted] framed by the reema [word] of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
What has any of this to do with “Jesus being slain before the world began?” It has EVERYTHING to do with how it is to be understood. It was not an historic event that preceeded history, it was a prophetic event that transcended history.
It is a reference to the fact that God predetermined and foreknew all that transpired in the life of Jesus of Nazareth; “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God,” [Acts 2:23].
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 12 2009,14:15) Hi BD,
Jesus died by hanging on a tree.
Read the holy scriptures.Your teacher has been lying to you.
Why would our God highly favour one you think was blind and deceived?
Why do some say he died on a cross?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,06:47) Hi BD,
He was crucified and died.
Perhaps it wasn't him on the cross, maybe it just appeared to be him. Why would Jesus The Christ say “My God, My God why has thou forsaken me”?Trinitarians would have to admit that, that would not sound right if Jesus IS God, it would be like asking your self why you are doing this to yourself.
But to you Nick, what do you think?
Hi BD,
Any possiblility that can be offered as an alternative to truth to justify your attack on the Spirit of God you are drawn to.
Do you think crucifixion involved other options than wood ?Why kick against the goad as God is stronger than you?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,06:55) Hi BD,
Any possiblility that can be offered as an alternative to truth to justify your attack on the Spirit of God you are drawn to.
Do you think crucifixion involved other options than wood ?Why kick against the goad as God is stronger than you?
You still don't answer but the point is if he was crucified why are the scriptures unsure of the method?Some say a cross and some say a tree.
If it happened for a certainty then why is it not definite in the scriptures. Perhaps God allowed the discrepency to be recorded in order for the time when it would be revealed that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed but was taken up to heaven Alive by God.
GOD SAVED JESUS CHRIST from the evil plot against him. You should be happy but you want him on that cross for selfish reasons.
Hi BD,
You quote the scriptures but then tell us they are untrue.
Now you would correct the poetic style of the Spirit of God?Quote (bodhitharta @ July 13 2009,07:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,06:55) Hi BD,
Any possiblility that can be offered as an alternative to truth to justify your attack on the Spirit of God you are drawn to.
Do you think crucifixion involved other options than wood ?Why kick against the goad as God is stronger than you?
You still don't answer but the point is if he was crucified why are the scriptures unsure of the method?Some say a cross and some say a tree.
If it happened for a certainty then why is it not definite in the scriptures. Perhaps God allowed the discrepency to be recorded in order for the time when it would be revealed that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed but was taken up to heaven Alive by God.
GOD SAVED JESUS CHRIST from the evil plot against him. You should be happy but you want him on that cross for selfish reasons.
I have never heard anybody denying that Jesus was crucified on the cross! Where in Scripture do you find that? He is our perfect Sacrifice. We need no animal for an offering of our sins. Your theology is rather far fetched to say the least.
Others have doubt that Jesus is our Messiah, but not that He never was crucified on the cross. It is a joke that we want Jesus to be crucified that is slander for sure. God choose so for our Salvation, and if He would have kept the old Law, He would have. But nobody was able to keep all of the Law. Have you read Math.? It is definite in Scripture. It says Cross. Read it.
IreneQuote (Cindy @ July 13 2009,08:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 13 2009,07:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,06:55) Hi BD,
Any possiblility that can be offered as an alternative to truth to justify your attack on the Spirit of God you are drawn to.
Do you think crucifixion involved other options than wood ?Why kick against the goad as God is stronger than you?
You still don't answer but the point is if he was crucified why are the scriptures unsure of the method?Some say a cross and some say a tree.
If it happened for a certainty then why is it not definite in the scriptures. Perhaps God allowed the discrepency to be recorded in order for the time when it would be revealed that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed but was taken up to heaven Alive by God.
GOD SAVED JESUS CHRIST from the evil plot against him. You should be happy but you want him on that cross for selfish reasons.
I have never heard anybody denying that Jesus was crucified on the cross! Where in Scripture do you find that? He is our perfect Sacrifice. We need no animal for an offering of our sins. Your theology is rather far fetched to say the least.
Others have doubt that Jesus is our Messiah, but not that He never was crucified on the cross. It is a joke that we want Jesus to be crucified that is slander for sure. God choose so for our Salvation, and if He would have kept the old Law, He would have. But nobody was able to keep all of the Law. Have you read Math.? It is definite in Scripture. It says Cross. Read it.
Irene
It is revealed in the Glorious Quran. God saved Jesus from the cross and the plot from evil against him. God raised Jesus up to Himself without being crucified or killed, this is certain.They thought that the crucified him but they did not.
The Law was given by God and was good Jesus fulfilled all of the Law proving that it could be kept. He taught the correct interpretation of the Law and exposed the commandments of men and hence God exalted him as a lord amongst men for he was obedient even unto death but God saved Jesus and he did not die and will return as the ancient of days over 2000 years old in perfect health, just like those in Genesis that lived to be 900 years old. Jesus can intercede on your behalf not because he died but because he is the LIVING SACRIFICE.
Hi BDm
Killed by men but alive yet in the Spirit of God he was able to be as High priest to enter the temple for us.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,11:11) Hi BD,
You should not believe those concocted lies.
Believe what holy scripture says.
Is Jesus alive or dead?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,11:12) Hi BDm
Killed by men but alive yet in the Spirit of God he was able to be as High priest to enter the temple for us.
How many deaths by murder of Prophets are recorded in the Bible?Was Noah killed
Was Abraham killed
Was Moses Killed
Was Lot killed
Was Isaiah killed
Was Elijah killed
Was Elisha killed
Was David Killed
Was Solomon killedWHO was killed which one of these God did not save?
Hi BD,
He lives along with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Spirit of his God.
God promised never to leave us or forsake us.The Spirit of God is with our spirit till we die as Jesus did.[Rom 8, Mt27.50]
Then at death our natural spirit returns to God [ecc 12]Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,11:59) Hi BD,
He lives along with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Spirit of his God.
God promised never to leave us or forsake us.
The Spirit of God is with our spirit till we die as Jesus did.[Rom 8, Mt27.50]
Then at death our natural spirit returns to God [ecc 12]
Which one of those were killed?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,12:41) Hi BD,
They all died.
Without his death there is no resurrection from the dead for any.[1Cor15]
Didn't God save them from being killed?
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