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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2009,16:29) Hi BD,
God greatly used Paul even in ways you might not approve of.
But you would not judge God would you?
I don't recall judging Paul what I said was what I actually showed you in the scriptures. It shows two things it shows that Paul was responsible for really spreading Christianity but it also shows that Christianity at this point is at enmity within itself because of the ambiguous nature of the writings of Paul.Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God
Paul preached the Gospel of JesusHi BD,
Since you do not share with Christ and us the Spirit in Paul you will always be grasping at straws in understanding that wisdom but it is not wise to try and divide the servant from his GodHi bodhitharta,
Correction, Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom. (to Israel only)
Paul preached the gospel of :the grace of God. (to the 'nations')
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 07 2009,16:41) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2009,16:29) Hi BD,
God greatly used Paul even in ways you might not approve of.
But you would not judge God would you?
I don't recall judging Paul what I said was what I actually showed you in the scriptures. It shows two things it shows that Paul was responsible for really spreading Christianity but it also shows that Christianity at this point is at enmity within itself because of the ambiguous nature of the writings of Paul.Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God
Paul preached the Gospel of Jesus
Careful my friend, lest you slander one of God's selected ministers –Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 07 2009,13:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 06 2009,14:29) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ.They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Bod,In no way do we believe that God is Christ. We believe that Christ is God. I have explained this before. You can say that a car is a vehicle, but you cannot say that a vehicle is a car. Why is this? Because every car is a vehicle. Car is a specific word under the broad term vehicle. However, a vehicle is not always a car, so to say that a vehicle is a car would limit the word to that specific type of vehicle. This is the same way with God. God is the broad term, and Christ is the specific term. God is not Christ, but Christ is God.
TC27
Allow me a moment –You say Christ is God, but God is not Christ.
That means the terms are not reciprocal.You say The Father is God. Is God the Father? (reciprocal terms).
If The father is God, and the Father is in Christ, and Christ is God, then you have God in God.
Sounds like circularity to me.
Quote (Paladin @ July 07 2009,21:35) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 07 2009,13:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 06 2009,14:29) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ.They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Bod,In no way do we believe that God is Christ. We believe that Christ is God. I have explained this before. You can say that a car is a vehicle, but you cannot say that a vehicle is a car. Why is this? Because every car is a vehicle. Car is a specific word under the broad term vehicle. However, a vehicle is not always a car, so to say that a vehicle is a car would limit the word to that specific type of vehicle. This is the same way with God. God is the broad term, and Christ is the specific term. God is not Christ, but Christ is God.
TC27
Allow me a moment –You say Christ is God, but God is not Christ.
That means the terms are not reciprocal.You say The Father is God. Is God the Father? (reciprocal terms).
If The father is God, and the Father is in Christ, and Christ is God, then you have God in God.
Sounds like circularity to me.
Paladin,
You should read your reply to TC27 again. Her logic is linear. It is yours that is circular. Think about it.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,18:06) Hi TC,
So Jesus is not your God?God is in him.
Who assigns these tasks or do they have regular meetings?
Who is the Son of this trinity god?
Nick,The Son is part of the trinity God.
TC27
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:22) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,18:06) Hi TC,
So Jesus is not your God?God is in him.
Who assigns these tasks or do they have regular meetings?
Who is the Son of this trinity god?
Nick,The Son is part of the trinity God.
TC27
TC,The Son didn't know that he was a part of a “Trinity God”. We can see this by following his words:
John 17:3 (New International Version)
3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.The “you” in the above scripture is the Father. The “Jesus Christ” in the above scripture is someone other than the true God.
If Jesus knew he was part of the Trinity, where did he say so? He said to see him was to see the Father, but he never made any mention of the Holy Ghost? Hmmm. It's quite a curious dogma.
Love,
MandyQuote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:23) If Jesus is not God, then why do you worship him? TC27
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”The boys worshipped him because he was the Son of God. Not because he was God.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:29) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:23) If Jesus is not God, then why do you worship him? TC27
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”The boys worshipped him because he was the Son of God. Not because he was God.
Not3,The why does the Bible say to worship the Lord your God only? If Jesus is not God, then he should not be worshiped. That would be idolatry.
TC27
Everyone,
Why would Jesus say this to the devil if he was not God?
Matthew 4:7
Quote Jesus said to him, “It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'” We all know that JESUS was the one being tempted here. So why would he pull out a phrase saying you shall not tempt the Lord you God, if he was not God? The Father was not the one being tempted, but Jesus. So if Jesus is not God, then his statement to the devil is invalid.
TC27
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:29) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:23) If Jesus is not God, then why do you worship him? TC27
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”The boys worshipped him because he was the Son of God. Not because he was God.
Not3,The why does the Bible say to worship the Lord your God only? If Jesus is not God, then he should not be worshiped. That would be idolatry.
TC27
The word “worship” has been translated so many times. There are some pretty fabulous discussions on this board about this very question. It has been determined that “worship” can also mean “homage”. Two different situations.The ONE true God is to be worshipped over all. Even Jesus will bow down to him and give it all back to him, on that Day. It is clear…..there is ONE to be worshipped, and that ONE is the Father (who is God). This excludes Jesus as being that ONE.
1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.Love,
MandyQuote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:45) Everyone, Why would Jesus say this to the devil if he was not God?
Matthew 4:7
Quote Jesus said to him, “It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'” We all know that JESUS was the one being tempted here. So why would he pull out a phrase saying you shall not tempt the Lord you God, if he was not God? The Father was not the one being tempted, but Jesus. So if Jesus is not God, then his statement to the devil is invalid.
TC27
Read it again, please. Satan is asking Jesus – to ask God – to do things for him. Jesus tells Satan that that would be tempting God.Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:47) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:29) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:23) If Jesus is not God, then why do you worship him? TC27
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”The boys worshipped him because he was the Son of God. Not because he was God.
Not3,The why does the Bible say to worship the Lord your God only? If Jesus is not God, then he should not be worshiped. That would be idolatry.
TC27
This question is too easy, my friend.The word “worship” has been translated so many times. There are some pretty fabulous discussions on this board about this very question. It has been determined that “worship” can also mean “homage”. Two different situations.
The ONE true God is to be worshipped over all. Even Jesus will bow down to him and give it all back to him, on that Day. It is clear…..there is ONE to be worshipped, and that ONE is the Father (who is God). This excludes Jesus as being that ONE.
1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.Love,
Mandy
Not3,Show me from the greek that the word worship in the case of Jesus is different than actual worship. Show me how it means only mere homage. Jesus bled and died, and you do not want to actually worship him?
Philippians 2 states that Jesus was exalted to the highest place so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. How do you answer Philippians 2:9-11?
Quote 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
TC27Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:54) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:47) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:29) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:23) If Jesus is not God, then why do you worship him? TC27
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”The boys worshipped him because he was the Son of God. Not because he was God.
Not3,The why does the Bible say to worship the Lord your God only? If Jesus is not God, then he should not be worshiped. That would be idolatry.
TC27
This question is too easy, my friend.The word “worship” has been translated so many times. There are some pretty fabulous discussions on this board about this very question. It has been determined that “worship” can also mean “homage”. Two different situations.
The ONE true God is to be worshipped over all. Even Jesus will bow down to him and give it all back to him, on that Day. It is clear…..there is ONE to be worshipped, and that ONE is the Father (who is God). This excludes Jesus as being that ONE.
1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.Love,
Mandy
Not3,Show me from the greek that the word worship in the case of Jesus is different than actual worship. Show me how it means only mere homage. Jesus bled and died, and you do not want to actually worship him?
Philippians 2 states that Jesus was exalted to the highest place so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. How do you answer Philippians 2:9-11?
Quote 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
TC27
TC,With all due respect, I don't have time to look it up. It's all here if you want to dig for it yourself.
I totally understand that there are those Christians who believe that because of Jesus' ultimate sacrifice, that we are to worship his as God. But the bible simply does not support that view. We are told to worship God, the Father, only. No where are we told to give such glory to the Son.
Isaiah 42:8
“I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.The Father did not give his glory to the Son. The Son has his own glory – that of the One and Only Son. It was as the One and Only Son that his followers gave him homage/worship. Not as the One True God. Scriptures supports this theory quite well.
Love,
MandyQuote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:45) Everyone, Why would Jesus say this to the devil if he was not God?
Matthew 4:7
Quote Jesus said to him, “It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'” We all know that JESUS was the one being tempted here. So why would he pull out a phrase saying you shall not tempt the Lord you God, if he was not God? The Father was not the one being tempted, but Jesus. So if Jesus is not God, then his statement to the devil is invalid.
TC27
Hi TC,
Jesus was being tempted by Satan.And he was being tempted to tempt God to fulfill His promises about Jesus.
That is not righteousness.
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:54) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:47) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:34) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2009,09:29) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 08 2009,05:23) If Jesus is not God, then why do you worship him? TC27
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”The boys worshipped him because he was the Son of God. Not because he was God.
Not3,The why does the Bible say to worship the Lord your God only? If Jesus is not God, then he should not be worshiped. That would be idolatry.
TC27
This question is too easy, my friend.The word “worship” has been translated so many times. There are some pretty fabulous discussions on this board about this very question. It has been determined that “worship” can also mean “homage”. Two different situations.
The ONE true God is to be worshipped over all. Even Jesus will bow down to him and give it all back to him, on that Day. It is clear…..there is ONE to be worshipped, and that ONE is the Father (who is God). This excludes Jesus as being that ONE.
1 Corinthians 15:28
When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.Love,
Mandy
Not3,Show me from the greek that the word worship in the case of Jesus is different than actual worship. Show me how it means only mere homage. Jesus bled and died, and you do not want to actually worship him?
Philippians 2 states that Jesus was exalted to the highest place so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. How do you answer Philippians 2:9-11?
Quote 9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
TC27
Hi TC,
Do you think obesience to King Jesus is the sort of Worship God requires of men?Jesus answered that question in Jn 4.
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