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Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ.They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 06 2009,18:29) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ.They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Hi BDThis is a total lie and you should repent for making this statement. Surely if you keep lying like this then you will be reported to the moderators. You are totally misrepresenting the Trinitarian view.
We have never said any of the things you are saying. We simply believe what the scriptures say when they call Jesus God, and you dont.
We do not believe that Jesus is the Father nor have we ever said he is not the messiah or the mediator.
WJ
Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Christ is at the Father's right hand which is neither above or below the Father. And Isaiah 9:6 says that the government shall be on Christ's shoulders,Quote For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wondefful Counselor, the Mighty God, everlasting Father, prince of peace thinker
bodhitharta said:
Quote They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ. They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Bd,
Do you not listen when we post? God is the head of Christ in the same manner that the man is the head of the woman. The woman is not less than the man. WJ and I have pointed this out several times. And you say that Paul is a false prophet. Therefore, maybe Paul was lying when he said that God was the head of Christ. You really are an egnima. You have repeatedly said that Paul was a liar and a false prophet. Yet you keep invoking his statements. THIS MAKES NO SENSE!thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2009,10:39) Hi TT,
Neither is he the Father.
You preach a trinity god so please show another at the other hand.
Trinitarians do NOT teach that Christ is the Father.thinker
bodhitharta said:
Quote They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father. God said,
Quote Therefore, God also has highly exalted Him and given Him a name that is above every name, that a the name of jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those in earth, and those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, to the glory of God the Father If you don't bow the knee and confess with your tongue that Jesus Christ is Lord then you do not glorify the Father. It's that simple!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 07 2009,10:37) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Christ is at the Father's right hand which is neither above or below the Father. And Isaiah 9:6 says that the government shall be on Christ's shoulders,Quote For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wondefful Counselor, the Mighty God, everlasting Father, prince of peace thinker
Hi thinker:He is God's Christ, and as you already stated he is God's representative.
In his earthly ministry, he stated that he did nothing on his own but did what his Father was showing him. Through obedience to God, he overcame sin, and now, he has been exalted to the right hand of God, and he watches over his Word, the commandments that have come from God through him to us, and the Word that he also obeyed to perform it.
The scripture states:
Quote Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;We, as born again Christians, are subjected to God through him, that is the written Word that came to us during his ministry, and it is as we learn to apply this Word in our daily lives and by his blood that he shed for our sins that we learn to overcome sin as well.
We have access to the Father as we are in the body of Christ.
Quote Jhn 15:1 ¶ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.It is God's Word that we are obeying. Jesus did not teach his own throughts, and so, although he has been given all power over heaven and earth, he is subjected to God through His Word. The head of Christ is God, and head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man. The Word of God is what we are striving to obey in the body of Christ.
There is only “one God” and one mediator between God and man the “man” Christ Jesus.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 06 2009,15:51) Quote (thethinker @ July 07 2009,10:37) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Christ is at the Father's right hand which is neither above or below the Father. And Isaiah 9:6 says that the government shall be on Christ's shoulders,Quote For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wondefful Counselor, the Mighty God, everlasting Father, prince of peace thinker
Hi thinker:He is God's Christ, and as you already stated he is God's representative.
In his earthly ministry, he stated that he did nothing on his own but did what his Father was showing him. Through obedience to God, he overcame sin, and now, he has been exalted to the right hand of God, and he watches over his Word, the commandments that have come from God through him to us, and the Word that he also obeyed to perform it.
The scripture states:
Quote Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;We, as born again Christians, are subjected to God through him, that is the written Word that came to us during his ministry, and it is as we learn to apply this Word in our daily lives and by his blood that he shed for our sins that we learn to overcome sin as well.
We have access to the Father as we are in the body of Christ.
Quote Jhn 15:1 ¶ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.It is God's Word that we are obeying. Jesus did not teach his own throughts, and so, although he has been given all power over heaven and earth, he is subjected to God through His Word. The head of Christ is God, and head of man is Christ, and the head of woman is man. The Word of God is what we are striving to obey in the body of Christ.
There is only “one God” and one mediator between God and man the “man” Christ Jesus.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Jesus was fully God and fully man. So yes, trinitarians do not deny that Jesus was a man. However, to be just a man is cutting it short. Jesus was both man and God.
TC27
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,14:39) Hi TT,
Neither is he the Father.
You preach a trinity god so please show another at the other hand.
Nick,I have said this before. We do not claim that Jesus is the Father. We claim that Jesus is God. There is a HUGE difference.
TC27
Hi TC,
You do not claim he is his own father?
He is the Son of God then?Did part of your God die?
Our God is immortal.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 06 2009,14:29) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ.They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Bod,In no way do we believe that God is Christ. We believe that Christ is God. I have explained this before. You can say that a car is a vehicle, but you cannot say that a vehicle is a car. Why is this? Because every car is a vehicle. Car is a specific word under the broad term vehicle. However, a vehicle is not always a car, so to say that a vehicle is a car would limit the word to that specific type of vehicle. This is the same way with God. God is the broad term, and Christ is the specific term. God is not Christ, but Christ is God.
TC27
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,17:51) Hi TC,
You do not claim he is his own father?
He is the Son of God then?Did part of your God die?
Our God is immortal.
Nick,To be honest, your question makes no sense. However, I will say this. I never claimed a part of my God to die. I said that it is inaccurate to claim that Jesus is the Father. This is because the Father and the Son are SEPARATE parts of ONE God. To say the Father is God is correct. To say that Jesus is God is correct. To say that the Holy Spirit is God is correct. But to say that Jesus is the Father, or that the Holy Spirit is Jesus, etc. is inaccurate because they are separate persons who perform different tasks.
TC27
Hi TC,
So Jesus is not your God?God is in him.
Who assigns these tasks or do they have regular meetings?
Who is the Son of this trinity god?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 07 2009,10:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 06 2009,18:29) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ.They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Hi BDThis is a total lie and you should repent for making this statement. Surely if you keep lying like this then you will be reported to the moderators. You are totally misrepresenting the Trinitarian view.
We have never said any of the things you are saying. We simply believe what the scriptures say when they call Jesus God, and you dont.
We do not believe that Jesus is the Father nor have we ever said he is not the messiah or the mediator.
WJ
It's interesting that you identified with my statement because I didn't even say who “they” are.Do you believe God is His Christ?
If God is not above Christ then Christ is not Christ but you have said repeatedly that Christ is equal to God.
I didn't say that you think that Jesus is The Father.
Quote (thethinker @ July 07 2009,10:45) bodhitharta said: Quote They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ. They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Bd,
Do you not listen when we post? God is the head of Christ in the same manner that the man is the head of the woman. The woman is not less than the man. WJ and I have pointed this out several times. And you say that Paul is a false prophet. Therefore, maybe Paul was lying when he said that God was the head of Christ. You really are an egnima. You have repeatedly said that Paul was a liar and a false prophet. Yet you keep invoking his statements. THIS MAKES NO SENSE!thinker
You must be confused. You said the exalted Christ was equal to God and now you admit that God is the Head of Christ which is it?BTW, You just made another fatal error in your logic consider this:
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it
Notice The Command was given to Adam and not to Eve therefore we know in regards to rank the Man was Higher and had more authority than the woman and God has more authority than Christ which is Jesus.
You keep calling Paul all these things, I have only Quoted Paul from paul so if I say that Paul used guile and Paul says it as well than Paul agrees with me through the scriptures.
Hi BD,
God greatly used Paul even in ways you might not approve of.
But you would not judge God would you?Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 07 2009,13:53) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 06 2009,14:29) Quote (942767 @ July 07 2009,10:13) Hi WJ and thethinker: Are you saying that in his position as head of the church, Jesus is not subjected to the Father?
Love in Christ,
Marty
They don't believe that God is the head of Christ. They believe that God is Christ which is anti-Christ.They don't believe that Jesus is their mediator they have thrown out the office of Christ and since they claim Jesus as their God and not their Christ they are Anti-Christ they are of the ones that Jesus will say he doesn't know them because they have disposed of the Will of The Father.
Bod,In no way do we believe that God is Christ. We believe that Christ is God. I have explained this before. You can say that a car is a vehicle, but you cannot say that a vehicle is a car. Why is this? Because every car is a vehicle. Car is a specific word under the broad term vehicle. However, a vehicle is not always a car, so to say that a vehicle is a car would limit the word to that specific type of vehicle. This is the same way with God. God is the broad term, and Christ is the specific term. God is not Christ, but Christ is God.
TC27
Jesus said that God is the FatherJesus said that the Father is his God in the same way that the Father is your God and My God.
is that right? because if it is Jesus is not that same God, right?
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 07 2009,13:57) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2009,17:51) Hi TC,
You do not claim he is his own father?
He is the Son of God then?Did part of your God die?
Our God is immortal.
Nick,To be honest, your question makes no sense. However, I will say this. I never claimed a part of my God to die. I said that it is inaccurate to claim that Jesus is the Father. This is because the Father and the Son are SEPARATE parts of ONE God. To say the Father is God is correct. To say that Jesus is God is correct. To say that the Holy Spirit is God is correct. But to say that Jesus is the Father, or that the Holy Spirit is Jesus, etc. is inaccurate because they are separate persons who perform different tasks.
TC27
You just admitted that a part of God died and a 2 parts did not die.You say that Jesus died and he was God and you say that the Father and the Holy Spirit didn't die and they were God.
However you also say that the fullness of the Godhead dwelled in him so did they all die?
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