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Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 22 2012,22:52) This thread got way off topic.
It was originally a response to wakeup's typical bigoted, stereotypical theist opinion of what an atheist is.When people like wakeup know nothing about an issue they are generally too lazy to do any investigation into it. To hide their ignorance they adopt an easily learned stereotype. All pitbulls are vicious, All Mexican food is too spicy etc. and state it with great conviction, as if it is the result of much study.
Generally the atheists stereotype is seen as denying the “truth”, afraid or ignorant of the facts, dangerous, immoral, untrustworthy, self centered, unpatriotic, stupid … the list goes on.
Most atheists are simply content in their own knowledge that there is no god – like children who have figured out that there is no Santa Clause or monster under the bed. It is just another fact in a fact filled world.
Atheists in our society have a tendency to hide their opinions – some folks try to convert them, others try to lump them in with Hitler and Stalin. Granted this is better than the old response of having them convert or die and burn for eternity.
This lack of everyday examples of “normal” atheists leads many folks to have only the stereotype to go by. Since the stereotype is generally so poisonous, many non-atheists would not be seen reading books on, or researching, atheist thinking for fear of being taken for “one of them.
The truth is that many folks you know and respect may well be atheists. They are in all lines of work, come in all colors, both sexes, young, old, grumpy and friendly. Their common bond is that they have independently thought their way through tough questions like, Is there a god(s)? Is there a life after death? Is there good and evil? In most cases they have then come to conclusions different from those of theists.
Tim
Hi Tim,You mean like 'atheists' FOOLISHLY believing
that evolution somehow explains our beginning?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2012,23:16) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 22 2012,07:18) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,15:52)
terraricca the Bronze Age / early Iron Age man.I realise that individuals can grasp hold of christianity as a substitute addiction for alcoholism, but can you give any example of a problem facing humanity generally that has actually been solved by application of the biblical principles you outlined earlier?
Your religion has had 2000 years plus to find a solution to something. What would it be?
Stuart
Hi Stuart,That's an easy one, Christianity is a alternate lifestyle away from evil behavior.
God bless
Ed J
That doesn't really answer the question Ed. Did you read the scriptures that terraricca posted as a cure for sociopaths?Stuart
Hi Stuart, I'm really not sure what verses Pierre posted.A sociopath is not concerned for others, I believe this verse covers what you ask…
“whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.” (Mark 10:44)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (princess @ Jan. 22 2012,23:38) Mike, you are not a believer in the Hebrew God, you are a believer in the Paul God.
Hi Princess,They are one and the same.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,04:53) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 23 2012,06:21) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,02:45) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2012,05:50) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,16:10) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,22:52) Your religion has had 2000 years plus to find a solution to something. What would it be? Stuart
stuanswer ;get rid of the sociopaths,the people that love them selves above all other first and in excess,and also stop to preach evolution crap so that the abuses of others for a profit can stop
and so the love of God can enter mans heart ,
but this is over your head anyway
Pierre
So should I take it that you cannot think of a single problem that has been solved by application of the verses that you claimed should solve the problem of sociopathic behaviour?Nothing? In 2000 plus years? No universal solving of any problem?
And science, including evolution by natural selection, has transformed our lives on a vast scale in the past 200 years, not least of which is the theory that led to the technology you are currently using to communicate with others here.
Can you think of any problem already universally solved by application of any of the verses in your scripture?
Stuart
stuQuote Nothing? In 2000 plus years? No universal solving of any problem? well the scriptures are still teaching the truth of God ,and so brings the best out of people,
but we both know ;if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem ;
and only God of the scriptures as the solution.
Pierre
So, no problem solving by christianity then.Only platitudes.
Stuart
stuwhy do you always trow Christianity in my face ? I ate them ,
they are the devils works ,and any one that is not the problem are leaving her,
you seemed to like to trow things to people that is irrelevant,to the discussion here,
men are increasing in number on a daily base but they have not resolve any of the major problems of the planet,they always finger pointing the cause of being a solution for other to deal with,
IS THIS YOUR TYPE OF MEN AND WORLD
?Pierre
You quote verses written by christians that constitute part of the mythology known as christianity, relating to the messianic figure they describe that is called christ by those who quote these verses, and then you accuse me of throwing christianity in your face?Perhaps you should have agreed with me that christianity is useless!
Stuart
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2012,04:02) What is that, Princess? Did I hear an “Oops, sorry I lied and mislead others about the ten commandments!” ?
Maybe it is that time of the month for you, Mike.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Jan. 23 2012,23:21) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,04:53) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 23 2012,06:21) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 22 2012,02:45) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 22 2012,05:50) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,16:10) Quote (Stu @ Jan. 21 2012,22:52) Your religion has had 2000 years plus to find a solution to something. What would it be? Stuart
stuanswer ;get rid of the sociopaths,the people that love them selves above all other first and in excess,and also stop to preach evolution crap so that the abuses of others for a profit can stop
and so the love of God can enter mans heart ,
but this is over your head anyway
Pierre
So should I take it that you cannot think of a single problem that has been solved by application of the verses that you claimed should solve the problem of sociopathic behaviour?Nothing? In 2000 plus years? No universal solving of any problem?
And science, including evolution by natural selection, has transformed our lives on a vast scale in the past 200 years, not least of which is the theory that led to the technology you are currently using to communicate with others here.
Can you think of any problem already universally solved by application of any of the verses in your scripture?
Stuart
stuQuote Nothing? In 2000 plus years? No universal solving of any problem? well the scriptures are still teaching the truth of God ,and so brings the best out of people,
but we both know ;if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem ;
and only God of the scriptures as the solution.
Pierre
So, no problem solving by christianity then.Only platitudes.
Stuart
stuwhy do you always trow Christianity in my face ? I ate them ,
they are the devils works ,and any one that is not the problem are leaving her,
you seemed to like to trow things to people that is irrelevant,to the discussion here,
men are increasing in number on a daily base but they have not resolve any of the major problems of the planet,they always finger pointing the cause of being a solution for other to deal with,
IS THIS YOUR TYPE OF MEN AND WORLD
?Pierre
You quote verses written by christians that constitute part of the mythology known as christianity, relating to the messianic figure they describe that is called christ by those who quote these verses, and then you accuse me of throwing christianity in your face?Perhaps you should have agreed with me that christianity is useless!
Stuart
stumany years ago (55) I would have agreed with you ,but how could you know if some thing works unless you tested or try it ??
you Know I always wander why could GANGHI a 110 lbs five foot man trow out the british empire of his country and he did not use force ,
he said to the british “I love your Christ but I ate your Christians “
well you would not understand it
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 23 2012,13:58) Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 22 2012,22:52) This thread got way off topic.
It was originally a response to wakeup's typical bigoted, stereotypical theist opinion of what an atheist is.When people like wakeup know nothing about an issue they are generally too lazy to do any investigation into it. To hide their ignorance they adopt an easily learned stereotype. All pitbulls are vicious, All Mexican food is too spicy etc. and state it with great conviction, as if it is the result of much study.
Generally the atheists stereotype is seen as denying the “truth”, afraid or ignorant of the facts, dangerous, immoral, untrustworthy, self centered, unpatriotic, stupid … the list goes on.
Most atheists are simply content in their own knowledge that there is no god – like children who have figured out that there is no Santa Clause or monster under the bed. It is just another fact in a fact filled world.
Atheists in our society have a tendency to hide their opinions – some folks try to convert them, others try to lump them in with Hitler and Stalin. Granted this is better than the old response of having them convert or die and burn for eternity.
This lack of everyday examples of “normal” atheists leads many folks to have only the stereotype to go by. Since the stereotype is generally so poisonous, many non-atheists would not be seen reading books on, or researching, atheist thinking for fear of being taken for “one of them.
The truth is that many folks you know and respect may well be atheists. They are in all lines of work, come in all colors, both sexes, young, old, grumpy and friendly. Their common bond is that they have independently thought their way through tough questions like, Is there a god(s)? Is there a life after death? Is there good and evil? In most cases they have then come to conclusions different from those of theists.
Tim
Hi Tim,You mean like 'atheists' FOOLISHLY believing
that evolution somehow explains our beginning?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thank you Ed.Thank you for proving my point. Ignorance of what an atheist is, or what an atheist thinks, or for that matter, what evolution is, creates the untrue stereotype.
Evolution just refers to the genetic change in populations that results in new species. Evolution, namely natural selection doesn't even apply to the very first origin of life,
or attempt to explain our beginnings.You don't have to remain ignorant Ed. You are an intellegent man. Open your mind and learn.
Tim
Hi Tim,
You don't get 'new species' through natural selection, that is a myth.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Ed,
It is not a myth.
Biologists have witnessed species changing to new species within the closed-system model of islands. Why would any rational person want to deny what can be easily observed in this day and age.It is a shame that your belief system forces you to remain in the dark ages in regards to science.
Tim
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,22:23) WIT, I brought up the fact that men have dominated woman for the majority of human existence, and that they still do in MANY cultures in our world. I have brought up that it was less than a 100 years ago that women were even allowed to vote in America, and that “women's equality” is a most recent development, and only in a few cultures in the world. Then I mentioned that you kept avoiding this part of my post, to which you replied: No, actually, I quoted that part of your post directly!
From my post:
Quote
By the way, based on your logic, the following is a justification for slavery, using your own words:Millions, perhaps billions, of God-fearing [slaves] understand this, and live completely happy and fulfilled lives under this hierarchy. In fact, it is the way it was for THOUSANDS of years, UNTIL JUST RECENTLY IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES. And it is STILL the way it is in MANY parts of the world.
I still don't understand how accusing me of justifying slavery actually addresses the point I made?
I also brought up the analogy about racism only being seriously addressed less than 50 years ago. Yet, you somehow still can't see the point that I am making. (“Above average intelligence”??!?!?)Let me spell it out for you: Just because something is recent doesn't automatically make it wrong!
If you want to say that sexist societies function better, that would be a valid way to argue your position. But, unfortunately for you, if you show me any modern day sexist society, it is also strongly likely to be a backwards society that still oppresses people generally and barely functions beyond Dark Age thinking.
Of course, you are fine with all of that, so from your point of view, the more backwards a society is the better.
Quote You are wonderfully adept at these kinds of slants and diversions, and I feel like talking to you is a waste of my time. You're not really after truth, but instead seem to be on a mission to belittle others and show how smart you are by being witty. I have no time for games like that…………sorry.
Actually, I am very much after truth, and I did find it while talking to you. The truth is that true believers in the bible must necessarily lock their thinking up with the ancient people who wrote it to the point where they must accept slavery, embrace child sacrifice, justify sexism, and become incapable of accepting objective scientific facts. You have demonstrated that truth quite clearly, and I am genuinely shocked at how easily you did.
Thanks for reminding me of why I left the faith.
As you go back into your safe cocoon of true believers, think about this:
Everyone who has come to this forum (with the exception of Stu) originally came seeking to defend the “truth” about God as revealed in the bible. Yet, the fruits of the bible have been the exact opposite of what you would expect from a book inspired by God. There is division even among the sincerest believers, and many who came here to defend the bible ended up finding it greatly flawed.
If you want to stay a believer, regardless of the truth, you are right to return to the safety of the other believers, because we who are former believers can, and will, show you all the places in your book that simply don't add up.
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 23 2012,14:08) Quote (princess @ Jan. 22 2012,23:38) Mike, you are not a believer in the Hebrew God, you are a believer in the Paul God.
Hi Princess,They are one and the same.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hello Edj,1. Faith or Works (Jesus & James works, Paul faith)
2. Foods eaten (Jesus & Kepha yes, Paul for no)
3. Sabbath (Jesus yes, Paul no)
4. Feasts (Jesus yes, Paul no)
5. Prayer (Jesus enclosed venue, Paul open venue)
6. Feeding the poor (Jesus yes, Paul make them work first)
7. Women (Jesus yes, Paul no)For Jesus to be the Son of God, then one would think his words would superceed all others, not the case with Christianity. It makes a mockery out of it's own.
Quote (TimothyVI @ Jan. 23 2012,23:48) Hi Ed, It is not a myth.
Biologists have witnessed species changing to new species within the closed-system model of islands. Why would any rational person want to deny what can be easily observed in this day and age.It is a shame that your belief system forces you to remain in the dark ages in regards to science.
Tim
Hi Tim,Where is your proof?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 24 2012,02:56) we who are former believers can, and will, show you all the places in your book that simply don't add up.
Hi WIT,You have yet to Prove any part the bible wrong, but you are welcome to keep trying.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,17:13) stu many years ago (55) I would have agreed with you ,but how could you know if some thing works unless you tested or try it ??
you Know I always wander why could GANGHI a 110 lbs five foot man trow out the british empire of his country and he did not use force ,
he said to the british “I love your Christ but I ate your Christians “
well you would not understand it
Pierre
It isn't that I wouldn't understand, it is that I would disagree with Gandhi.In fact I would almost say it the other way round, I love christians but object to christianity.
I agree that the way to find out if something works is to try it, indeed that is a simple way of saying use the scientific method. So, do we know of any problem that can be shown (by trying it) to be solved, universally for all humans, by application of the verses you posted, or indeed any Judeo-christian scriptures.
Stuart
Quote (princess @ Jan. 24 2012,05:49) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 23 2012,14:08) Quote (princess @ Jan. 22 2012,23:38) Mike, you are not a believer in the Hebrew God, you are a believer in the Paul God.
Hi Princess,They are one and the same.
God bless
Ed J
Hello Edj,1. Faith or Works (Jesus & James works, Paul faith)
2. Foods eaten (Jesus & Kepha yes, Paul for no)
3. Sabbath (Jesus yes, Paul no)
4. Feasts (Jesus yes, Paul no)
5. Prayer (Jesus enclosed venue, Paul open venue)
6. Feeding the poor (Jesus yes, Paul make them work first)
7. Women (Jesus yes, Paul no)For Jesus to be the Son of God, then one would think his words would superceed all others, not the case with Christianity. It makes a mockery out of it's own.
Hi Princess,1) Faith + works. (1Peter 4:8 / Luke 6:46)
2) Eating scavenger animals is UNHEALTHY;
but you can eat whatever you want.3) America has two days a week off.
4) The feasts point to Christ…
1. The Passover (Pesach) – Nisan 14-15 (Leviticus 23:5)……………………Passover is the feast of (יה) YÄ's Salvation.
2. Unleavened Bread (Chag Hamotzi) – Nisan 15-22 (Levi.23:6) ………Unleavened Bread is Jesus, the bread of life.
3. First Fruits (Yom Habikkurim) – Nisan 16-17 (Leviticus 23:11)………..First Fruits is resurrection or victory over death.
4. Pentecost (Shavu’ot) – Sivan 6-7 (Leviticus 23:16) …………………………Pentecost is “God’s Spirit” given to indwell in man.
5. Trumpets (Yom Teru’ah) – Tishri 1 (Leviticus 23:24)…………………………Trumpets is our proclamation of liberty through faith.
6. Atonement (Yom Kippur) – Tishri 10 (Leviticus 23:27)………………………is Jesus’ atoning sacrifice for our sins upon (†) a cross.
7. Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) – Tishri 15-22 (Lev.23:34) ………………is the Feast of our ingathering unto The LORD our GOD.Chanaukah symbolizes repentance, which is the rededication of life unto the LORD our GOD (יהוה האלהים YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm).
5) You can pray wherever you want; prayer can be silent, you know.
6) Paul was not talking about the poor, but those not concerned for others.
7) Neither were married, but both supported marriage.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Stu @ Jan. 24 2012,15:17) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 23 2012,17:13) stu many years ago (55) I would have agreed with you ,but how could you know if some thing works unless you tested or try it ??
you Know I always wander why could GANGHI a 110 lbs five foot man trow out the british empire of his country and he did not use force ,
he said to the british “I love your Christ but I ate your Christians “
well you would not understand it
Pierre
It isn't that I wouldn't understand, it is that I would disagree with Gandhi.In fact I would almost say it the other way round, I love christians but object to christianity.
I agree that the way to find out if something works is to try it, indeed that is a simple way of saying use the scientific method. So, do we know of any problem that can be shown (by trying it) to be solved, universally for all humans, by application of the verses you posted, or indeed any Judeo-christian scriptures.
Stuart
STUno Gandhi ad it right ,you have it wrong,but you can chose to have it wrong don't get me wrong,as a unbeliever you do have the right to commit suicide,
you see being a Christian is nothing like you can think or understand ,
see science sits on chairs and wait to see what 's next ,because they do not know ,they mostly do not understand anything ,this is why they always call it a finding because that s what it is a finding not a calculated understanding ,no a finding and most are by accident,
and after they start to understand what really happen ,they start to see that they only have a small part of what they need to know,and so on and on like a blind man with a white cane ,
NOT SO WITH THE MAN OF GOD, HE KNOWS WERE HE GO'S,
HE KNOW AND IS FED WITH ASSURANCE AND CONVICTION TO WERE HE AS TO GO ,NO ONE CAN TAKE HIM OF THE ROAD WERE HE GO'S,
SEE EVEN GANDHI YOU FIND A CRITICISM BUT NO ADMIRATION AND FIND THE REASON OF HIS SUCCESS.
GANDHI DID MORE THEN ANY SCIENTIST DID FOR MANKIND,
THIS SHOWS YOUR INNER HEART IN POOR CONDITION,
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 24 2012,03:01) Hi WIT, You have yet to Prove any part the bible wrong, but you are welcome to keep trying.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
You haven't successfully defended the bible against a single charge, but you're welcome to keep saying so.(Wow. Throwing out unsubstantiated claims is even more fun that I thought! No wonder you keep doing it, Ed.)
Hello Edj,
Your avoiding the matter, faith and works has been an ongoing debate, and will continue. Why?
Who changed Jesus words about it?I have two jobs, one being self empolyed, I work six days a week, and still manage to live in America.
Where did Jesus change the Sabbath?
Where did Jesus change the dietary quidelines?
I know what the feast represent Edj, even though I do not totally agree with yours. Christmas/Chanaukah same book different cover.
Where did Jesus change on how to pray?
Where did Jesus say make them work first then feed them?
Where did Jesus say to be celibate your whole life, due to having a family takes away from your faith?
Why is it so hard for ones to admit that the teachings of Paul are the foundation of Christianity then Christ's own words. I really don't understand, I mean is there a well it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, oh no it is a goose theory out there somewhere I haven't heard about.
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 24 2012,08:01) Quote (WhatIsTrue @ Jan. 24 2012,02:56) we who are former believers can, and will, show you all the places in your book that simply don't add up.
Hi WIT,You have yet to Prove any part the bible wrong, but you are welcome to keep trying.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Would added words or passages be consider the bible being wrong?Quote Hi Tim, You mean like 'atheists' FOOLISHLY believing
that evolution somehow explains our beginning?Easy there Edj, my son and I were talking tonight about the similiar genetic of other species, plants ect.. His quesstimate is we came from coral, it breathes, grows and can expell gamete. Young minds at work !!!!
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