Are you happy that jesus died for you?

[Lightenup]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 15 2009,23:32)

I find it interesting that when confronted with the very idea that Jesus was spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion, Most get upset, so I would like to really know does your love for Jesus surpass your salvation?

Hi Bo,
I do not think that people would get upset if Jesus was indeed spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion if it truly was only His willingness to die that was needed for our salvation. However, it was not only His willingness to die but actually the shedding of His blood and death that was required so that we could be cleansed by His blood. To even think that we would be fit to take His place and be able to cleanse ourselves and others with our shed blood would be a grand error. We are blemished and He was not. His blood satisfies, ours would not.

I do not think that you realize that Jesus's shed blood and death was one of His major purposes for coming as a man. If people are upset with those that believe there was no shed blood or death it is probably because they deny His greatest act due to love for us and obedience to His Father.

John 13:6-8
6 So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, “Lord, do You wash my feet?”
7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter.”
8 Peter said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
NASU

In the above passage Peter was trying to appear valiant and humble by refusing Jesus's service towards him. That makes me think of your questions regarding our not allowing Jesus to die because we love Him and insisting that we die for our own sins. I believe that Jesus's answer to us would be “If I do not wash you with MY blood, you have no part with Me.”

Bo, your Islam religion denies one of the greatest acts that Jesus did, that is why people get upset…it is not because we want Him to suffer. His shed blood and death makes Him our conquering hero who now lives again.

If my son went to war and took a fatal bullet because he purposely put himself in front of another man which that bullet was intended for in order to protect the other man, well, don't you think that the fact that he died for another is an important part of the story that would go down in history. Islam wants to water down the gallant act of Christ. If you say that my son purposely put himself in front of another man and the bullet missed them both by a hair, yes that is still courageous and valiant but not as much as dying for the other man. I know that is not a perfect comparison but hopefully you get the idea. If my son died for another soldier and that other soldier didn't realize it and thought that my son just tripped and fell in front of him and accidently took the fatal bullet, the other soldier would have missed the magnitude of the sacrifice and its significance. That is what I think Islam does…it misses the magnitude of the sacrifice and therefore its full significance. IMO

Now, to answer your question…my love for Jesus allows His crucifixion to take place because otherwise I would be in the way of Him completing His mission.

Blessings, Kathi

[Not3in1]

Kathi,

{{{{Applause}}}}

Love,
Mandy

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Lightenup @ July 16 2009,20:34)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 15 2009,23:32) I find it interesting that when confronted with the very idea that Jesus was spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion, Most get upset, so I would like to really know does your love for Jesus surpass your salvation? Hi Bo, I do not think that people would get upset if Jesus was indeed spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion if it truly was only His willingness to die that was needed for our salvation.  However, it was not only His willingness to die but actually the shedding of His blood and death that was required so that we could be cleansed by His blood.  To even think that we would be fit to take His place and be able to cleanse ourselves and others with our shed blood would be a grand error. We are blemished and He was not.  His blood satisfies, ours would not. I do not think that you realize that Jesus's shed blood and death was one of His major purposes for coming as a man.  If people are upset with those that believe there was no shed blood or death it is probably because they deny His greatest act due to love for us and obedience to His Father. John 13:6-8 6 So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, “Lord, do You wash my feet?” 7 Jesus answered and said to him, “What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter.” 8 Peter said to Him, “Never shall You wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.” NASU In the above passage Peter was trying to appear valiant and humble by refusing Jesus's service towards him.  That makes me think of your questions regarding our not allowing Jesus to die because we love Him and insisting that we die for our own sins.  I believe that Jesus's answer to us would be “If I do not wash you with MY blood, you have no part with Me.” Bo, your Islam religion denies one of the greatest acts that Jesus did, that is why people get upset…it is not because we want Him to suffer.  His shed blood and death makes Him our conquering hero who now lives again. If my son went to war and took a fatal bullet because he purposely put himself in front of another man which that bullet was intended for in order to protect the other man, well, don't you think that the fact that he died for another is an important part of the story that would go down in history.  Islam wants to water down the gallant act of Christ.  If you say that my son purposely put himself in front of another man and the bullet missed them both by a hair, yes that is still courageous and valiant but not as much as dying for the other man.  I know that is not a perfect comparison but hopefully you get the idea.  If my son died for another soldier and that other soldier didn't realize it and thought that my son just tripped and fell in front of him and accidently took the fatal bullet, the other soldier would have missed the magnitude of the sacrifice and its significance.  That is what I think Islam does…it misses the magnitude of the sacrifice and therefore its full significance. IMO Now, to answer your question…my love for Jesus allows His crucifixion to take place because otherwise I would be in the way of Him completing His mission. Blessings, Kathi

I appreciate your well thought out post, however there are some questions I have for you.

God forbids and hates human sacrifice, he prevented Abraham from taking the life of Isaac giving a substitute instead.

Jeremiah 32
35 And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin

God said that human sacrifice never even came to his mind

Also, There is no need to shed blood for the atonement of sins
in-fact all the sins of the people must be placed on the head of a living sacrifice referred to as the SCAPEGOAT and it must be presented ALIVE before GOD. Did you know that?

Leviticus 16:9-11 (New King James Version)
9 And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the LORD’s lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. 10 But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness.

Leviticus 16 (New King James Version)

21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.

Now we all know that baptism is for the remission of sins now here is the mystery of the Baptism of Christ

Luke 7

28 For I say to you, among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist;but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”

Matthew 3 (New King James Version)
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

The baptism of John is for the remission of sin, there is no way getting around that but we know that Jesus did not sin so why be baptised? The answer is this:

Jesus confessed the sins of the Children of Israel because he was anointed to do so and following that he was led out into the wilderness just as The Scapegoat is. Because of this Jesus was tempted of the devil as if he could be made to sin then his baptism would have been void but the most important part is that the scapegoat must be presented ALIVE before the LORD GOD if the scapegoat dies there is no living Sacrifice to bear the iniquities. Because if Jesus died he could not die again for any further sins.

Plus keep in mind that Jesus was not sacrificed by God it is really a horrible thing to say or think God even says:

Genesis 9:5-7 (New King James Version)
5 Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

6 “ Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed;
For in the image of God
He made man.

Now in regards to your analogy you have a misunderstanding in it. There was a murder plot against JESUS one in which he sweated, wept and prayed to be spared from. He begged God to save him but said let it be your will. Now why would Jesus beg to be saved from “saving the world” as you say?

Isn't it true what the scriptures say

Luke 4:10-12 (New King James Version)
10 For it is written:

‘ He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you,’

11 and,

‘ In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’”

Psalm 91:11-13 (New King James Version)

11 For He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you in all your ways.
12 In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.

The mag
nitude of the story is much grander when you consider what God has really done and that is protect His anointed.

If you say that the shedding of blood is required then you must also take that blood and spead it on the alter, is the cross the alter too?

No, The Scapegoat is not killed and Jesus Christ was not killed nor crucified but was raised up Alive in the same flesh and blood he was born in.

Now also to prove to you what I have said about the work of Jesus

John 17:3-5 (New King James Version)
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.

How could he have been finished the work he was given before the cross, before the shedding of blood? But there it is plain for you to see “I have finished”

Jeremiah 26:14-16 (New King James Version)
14 As for me, here I am, in your hand; do with me as seems good and proper to you. 15 But know for certain that if you put me to death, you will surely bring innocent blood on yourselves, on this city, and on its inhabitants; for truly the LORD has sent me to you to speak all these words in your hearing.”
16 So the princes and all the people said to the priests and the prophets, “This man does not deserve to die. For he has spoken to us in the name of the LORD our God.”

Jonah 1:13-15 (New King James Version)
14 Therefore they cried out to the LORD and said, “We pray, O LORD, please do not let us perish for this man’s life, and do not charge us with innocent blood; for You, O LORD, have done as it pleased You.”

And to those men it appeared as though Jonas had perished but it pleased the Lord that Jonas be SAVED and for 3 days and 3 nights Jonah was in the belly of the great fish and did sweat, weep and pray

Jonah 2
1 Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the fish’s belly. 2 And he said:

“ I cried out to the LORD because of my affliction,
And He answered me.

“ Out of the belly of Sheol I cried,
And You heard my voice.
3 For You cast me into the deep,
Into the heart of the seas,
And the floods surrounded me;
All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight;
Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.’
5 The waters surrounded me, even to my soul;
The deep closed around me;
Weeds were wrapped around my head.
6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains;
The earth with its bars closed behind me forever;
Yet You have brought up my life from the pit,
O LORD, my God.
7 “ When my soul fainted within me,
I remembered the LORD;
And my prayer went up to You,
Into Your holy temple.
8 “ Those who regard worthless idols
Forsake their own Mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice to You
With the voice of thanksgiving;
I will pay what I have vowed.
Salvation is of the LORD.”

he says I will sacrifice to you with the voice of thanksgiving and Jonah was spit out of the belly of the fish ALIVE, so for 3 days AND 3 nights JONAH was ALIVE.

Jesus said that would be the only sign to that wicked and evil generation, he could have walked on water or healed some more people but Jesus says this is the ONLY sign and as you know if he was raised ON the third day then the sign of Jonah is not about the time otherwise he would have to be raised on the fourth day. Jesus makes it clear in the sign of Jonah he says 3 days and 3 nights so if he is raised before 3 days and 3 nights he is not talking about “time” concerning him but of Jonah so how else could he be as Jonah was?

for he says:

Matthew 12:39-41 (New King James Version)
39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.

So Jesus wasn't in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights, he wasn't in the belly of a great fish so what could he mean as Jonah was Jonah was ALIVE

Matthew 12:40-42 (New King James Version)
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.

Now understand this wisdom and knowledge what is such wisdom that is greater than Solomon?

1 Kings 3:24-26 (King James Version)

24 And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king.

25 And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other.

26 Then spake the woman whose the living child was unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, but divide it.

27 Then the king answered and said, Give her the living child, and in no wise slay it: she is the mother thereof.

So this is Islam and Christianity

1 Kings 3 (King James Version)

22 And the other woman said, Nay; but the living is my son, and the dead is thy son. And this said, No; but the dead is thy son, and the living is my son. Thus they spake before the king.

23 Then said the king, The one saith, This is my son that liveth, and thy son is the dead: and the other saith, Nay; but thy son is the dead, and my son is the living.

Islam would rather turn Jesus completely over than to slay him because we love Jesus and we Love God and know the SAVING power of GOD His arms are not too short to save nor does he need sacrifice

Hosea 6:5-7 (King James Version)

5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings

Matthew 12:6-8 (King James Version)

6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.

7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Jesus clearly shows here that they wanted to condemn him it was a murder plot and not a sacrifice by God but God is the best of those who plot and He outplotted them and SAVED Jesus and all those who believe in him.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Jesus died and rose again according to the scriptures.
But scripture is not relevant as far as what you teach is it?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,05:58)

Hi BD, Jesus died and rose again according to the scriptures. But scripture is not relevant as far as what you teach is it?

If what you say is true than why is it Jesus said

John 16:11-13 (King James Version)

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Now at this point Jesus has said he will die he told them when he would rise, he told them how the end would be and how he would return. You tell me what many things are there to say that they wouldn't be able to bear?

Hebrews 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

1 Corinthians 3
2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You have denied, derided and abused the faithful servants of God and the Spirit that led them.
But now you quote them to support your human doctrines?

You cannot have it both ways-if you want to sail in this boat you had better put the bung back in and raise the sails.

Bending over and pulling on your own big toes does not lift many folk very far.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,06:19)

Hi BD, You have denied, derided and abused the faithful servants of God and the Spirit that led them. But now you quote them to support your human doctrines? You cannot have it both ways-if you want to sail in this boat you had better put the bung back in and raise the sails. Bending over and pulling on your own big toes does not lift many folk very far.

Nick,

The scriptures are what you believe in and study so of course I use them. You may not care what I believe but if you care about what the scriptures say then that is the best way to show and prove.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You can prove nothing if you have no faith in what you quote.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,06:52)

Hi BD, You can prove nothing if you have no faith in what you quote.

I have Faith in what I wrote and I have the scriptures

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Wrong order.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,09:01)

Hi BD, Wrong order.

Okay, I have the scriptures and I have faith

Either way, I have both

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Sadly you do not have faith in the scriptures but have rather placed it first in yourself.
Dig deep and lay a proper foundation.Mt7.24f

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,09:13)

Hi BD, Sadly you do not have faith in the scriptures but have rather placed it first in yourself. Dig deep and lay a proper foundation.Mt7.24f

Nick,

I love you but when you start claiming you believe in a triune God I worry about you.

TT worshiping a triune God is him trying to maintain his position but you worshiping a triune God is you falling apart.

Say something to give me hope back in you.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Quote thanks.
Perhaps you need new lenses?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,09:20)

Hi BD, Quote thanks. Perhaps you need new lenses?

I hope so, because I love you and we believe in the same God without a doubt. The God OF Jesus is the only God there is.

He has no partners or equals or associates. God is Sovereign!!!

[NickHassan]

Hio BD,
So where is the quote?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:52)

Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:12) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,15:32) I find it interesting that when confronted with the very idea that Jesus was spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion, Most get upset, so I would like to really know does your love for Jesus surpass your salvation? Hi BD:   Our love for Jesus is based on the fact that while we were yet sinners he died for us.  We could not have been saved if he had not done so, and therefore, we love him by obeying his commandments. Quote Rom 5:6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.   Rom 5:7   For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.   Rom 5:8   But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.   Rom 5:9   Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.   Rom 5:10   For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.   Love in Christ, Marty That was not the question Marty, Does your love for Jesus surpass your desire to be saved? If you could spare Jesus the Cross at your own expense would you do it? Would you suffer for your own sins that the innocent might escape punishment? Hi BD: I did not know about Jesus until God showed me how much he loved me.  Of course, I a sorry that he had to suffer as he did, but no, God could have stopped it, but this is only way that any one could be saved.  So, your question is a foolish question. Look at what Jesus told the Apostle Peter who did not believe Jesus when he was telling him what he had to suffer: Quote Mat 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.   Mat 16:22   Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.   Mat 16:23   But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.   Mat 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.   Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Love in Christ, Marty Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Yes but you want to be SAVED and I am willing to lose my salvation for the sake of Jesus whom I love and will never say he is or was a Curse. and you say that if Jesus didn't die for our sins no one would be saved but look: Mark 10 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Surely the Spirit of God is with me tonight.

Hi BD:

You don't know what you are talking about when you say you would lose your salvation in order to spare Jesus what he went through. There is no salvation apart from what God has done in the person of Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ.

God is a God of justice, and the wages of sin is death. If we do not learn to overcome sin in the body of Christ, we are only in his house temporarily. There will be no sin in the world to come.

Quote

Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. Jhn 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

All things are indeed possible with God, but His plan in the beginning was to make man in his own image, and this the fulfillment of this is accomplished in the body of Christ.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ July 17 2009,09:47)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:52) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:12) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,15:32) I find it interesting that when confronted with the very idea that Jesus was spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion, Most get upset, so I would like to really know does your love for Jesus surpass your salvation? Hi BD:   Our love for Jesus is based on the fact that while we were yet sinners he died for us.  We could not have been saved if he had not done so, and therefore, we love him by obeying his commandments. Quote Rom 5:6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.   Rom 5:7   For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.   Rom 5:8   But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.   Rom 5:9   Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.   Rom 5:10   For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.   Love in Christ, Marty That was not the question Marty, Does your love for Jesus surpass your desire to be saved? If you could spare Jesus the Cross at your own expense would you do it? Would you suffer for your own sins that the innocent might escape punishment? Hi BD: I did not know about Jesus until God showed me how much he loved me.  Of course, I a sorry that he had to suffer as he did, but no, God could have stopped it, but this is only way that any one could be saved.  So, your question is a foolish question. Look at what Jesus told the Apostle Peter who did not believe Jesus when he was telling him what he had to suffer: Quote Mat 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.   Mat 16:22   Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.   Mat 16:23   But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.   Mat 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.   Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Love in Christ, Marty Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Yes but you want to be SAVED and I am willing to lose my salvation for the sake of Jesus whom I love and will never say he is or was a Curse. and you say that if Jesus didn't die for our sins no one would be saved but look: Mark 10 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Surely the Spirit of God is with me tonight. Hi BD: You don't know what you are talking about when you say you would lose your salvation in order to spare Jesus what he went through.  There is no salvation apart from what God has done in the person of Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. God is a God of justice, and the wages of sin is death.  If we do not learn to overcome sin in the body of Christ, we are only in his house temporarily.  There will be no sin in the world to come. Quote Jhn 8:34   Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.   Jhn 8:35   And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.   Jhn 8:36   If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.   All things are indeed possible with God, but His plan in the beginning was to make man in his own image, and this the fulfillment of this is accomplished in the body of Christ. Love in Christ, Marty

Every one dies today even Christians, so what will you say now? that the scriptures speak of a spiritual death? Christ is not spiritually dead so he didn't spiritually die for our sins.

So what will you say now?

In what way did Christ take your place?

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 17 2009,12:15)

Quote (942767 @ July 17 2009,09:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:52) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:12) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,15:32) I find it interesting that when confronted with the very idea that Jesus was spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion, Most get upset, so I would like to really know does your love for Jesus surpass your salvation? Hi BD:   Our love for Jesus is based on the fact that while we were yet sinners he died for us.  We could not have been saved if he had not done so, and therefore, we love him by obeying his commandments. Quote Rom 5:6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.   Rom 5:7   For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.   Rom 5:8   But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.   Rom 5:9   Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.   Rom 5:10   For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.   Love in Christ, Marty That was not the question Marty, Does your love for Jesus surpass your desire to be saved? If you could spare Jesus the Cross at your own expense would you do it? Would you suffer for your own sins that the innocent might escape punishment? Hi BD: I did not know about Jesus until God showed me how much he loved me.  Of course, I a sorry that he had to suffer as he did, but no, God could have stopped it, but this is only way that any one could be saved.  So, your question is a foolish question. Look at what Jesus told the Apostle Peter who did not believe Jesus when he was telling him what he had to suffer: Quote Mat 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.   Mat 16:22   Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.   Mat 16:23   But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.   Mat 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.   Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Love in Christ, Marty Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Yes but you want to be SAVED and I am willing to lose my salvation for the sake of Jesus whom I love and will never say he is or was a Curse. and you say that if Jesus didn't die for our sins no one would be saved but look: Mark 10 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Surely the Spirit of God is with me tonight. Hi BD: You don't know what you are talking about when you say you would lose your salvation in order to spare Jesus what he went through.  There is no salvation apart from what God has done in the person of Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. God is a God of justice, and the wages of sin is death.  If we do not learn to overcome sin in the body of Christ, we are only in his house temporarily.  There will be no sin in the world to come. Quote Jhn 8:34   Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.   Jhn 8:35   And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.   Jhn 8:36   If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.   All things are indeed possible with God, but His plan in the beginning was to make man in his own image, and this the fulfillment of this is accomplished in the body of Christ. Love in Christ, Marty Every one dies today even Christians, so what will you say now? that the scriptures speak of a spiritual death? Christ is not spiritually dead so he didn't spiritually die for our sins. So what will you say now? In what way did Christ take your place?

Hi BD:

This is what Jesus has to say on the subject of the resurrection:

Quote

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

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Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Yes, everyone including Christians
die, but the soul of those who are serving God in Christ is alive to God. The scripture states that the soul of the dead in Christ is asleep awaiting the 1st resurrection which is commonly referred to as the rapture.

Jesus was delivered up to be crucified by the religious leaders in his time and was accused of blasphemy, and so, he was accursed in this condemnation. He broke the law according to the religious leaders and the wages of sin is death which not only means the death of body but spiritual separation from God.

Since all men have broken God's Law, all men who die in their sins are condemned by the law, but this is what the scripture states:

Quote

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:

When he ascended into heaven into the holy of holies he is our high priest and mediator, because he lives to make intercession for us, when we come to God with a repentant heart through him, he can ask God to forgive us. We all had a part in crucifying him through our sin.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ July 17 2009,13:51)

Quote (bodhitharta @ July 17 2009,12:15) Quote (942767 @ July 17 2009,09:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:52) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,16:12) Quote (942767 @ July 16 2009,16:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 16 2009,15:32) I find it interesting that when confronted with the very idea that Jesus was spared by God from being killed by way of crucifixion, Most get upset, so I would like to really know does your love for Jesus surpass your salvation? Hi BD:   Our love for Jesus is based on the fact that while we were yet sinners he died for us.  We could not have been saved if he had not done so, and therefore, we love him by obeying his commandments. Quote Rom 5:6 ¶ For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.   Rom 5:7   For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.   Rom 5:8   But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.   Rom 5:9   Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.   Rom 5:10   For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.   Love in Christ, Marty That was not the question Marty, Does your love for Jesus surpass your desire to be saved? If you could spare Jesus the Cross at your own expense would you do it? Would you suffer for your own sins that the innocent might escape punishment? Hi BD: I did not know about Jesus until God showed me how much he loved me.  Of course, I a sorry that he had to suffer as he did, but no, God could have stopped it, but this is only way that any one could be saved.  So, your question is a foolish question. Look at what Jesus told the Apostle Peter who did not believe Jesus when he was telling him what he had to suffer: Quote Mat 16:21 ¶ From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.   Mat 16:22   Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.   Mat 16:23   But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.   Mat 16:24 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.   Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Love in Christ, Marty Mat 16:25   For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.   Yes but you want to be SAVED and I am willing to lose my salvation for the sake of Jesus whom I love and will never say he is or was a Curse. and you say that if Jesus didn't die for our sins no one would be saved but look: Mark 10 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible. Surely the Spirit of God is with me tonight. Hi BD: You don't know what you are talking about when you say you would lose your salvation in order to spare Jesus what he went through.  There is no salvation apart from what God has done in the person of Jesus His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. God is a God of justice, and the wages of sin is death.  If we do not learn to overcome sin in the body of Christ, we are only in his house temporarily.  There will be no sin in the world to come. Quote Jhn 8:34   Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.   Jhn 8:35   And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.   Jhn 8:36   If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.   All things are indeed possible with God, but His plan in the beginning was to make man in his own image, and this the fulfillment of this is accomplished in the body of Christ. Love in Christ, Marty Every one dies today even Christians, so what will you say now? that the scriptures speak of a spiritual death? Christ is not spiritually dead so he didn't spiritually die for our sins. So what will you say now? In what way did Christ take your place? Hi BD: This is what Jesus has to say on the subject of the resurrection: Quote Mat 22:31   But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,   Mat 22:32   I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.   Quote Jhn 11:25   Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live :   Jhn 11:26   And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?   Yes, everyone including Christians die, but the soul of those who are serving God in Christ is alive to God.  The scripture states that the soul of the dead in Christ is asleep awaiting the 1st resurrection which is commonly referred to as the rapture. Jesus was delivered up to be crucified by the religious leaders in his time and was accused of blasphemy, and so, he was accursed in this condemnation.  He broke the law according to the religious leaders and the wages of sin is death which not only means the death of body but spiritual separation from God. Since all men have broken God's Law, all men who die in their sins are condemned by the law, but this is what the scripture states: Quote Gal 3:13   Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:   When he ascended into heaven into the holy of holies he is our high priest and mediator, because he lives to make intercession for us, when we come to God with a repentant heart through him, he can ask God to forgive us.  We all had a part in crucifying him through our sin. Love in Christ, Marty

First of all I asked you in what way did Jesus Christ take your place?

Second, How is Abraham, Jacob, and Isaac alive to God through Christ? Or How is it they are dead in Christ?

Breaking the law according to religious leaders does not make you guilty Jesus even said that they were wrong condemning the innocent as guilty.

Jesus did not sin so he could not have earned those wages and he certainly was not seperated from God who raised him up to Himself.

How was Jesus seperated from God, he is at His right hand.

In no way was Jesus cursed and neither is the law you quote Gal 3:13 and so I give you this from the same author: See and recognize truth

1 Corinthians 12:2-4 (King James Version)

3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Psalm 19:6-8 (King James Version)

7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Doesn't sound like a curse to me.

It is amazing to me how you first thingk it is wonderful that someone died for you and then you say that the person became also a curse. Have you never really considered what you were saying or thinking. Even the person who wrote he became a curse said that no one speaketh by the spirit says that Christ is accursed but isn't that what he said?

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