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- February 18, 2013 at 4:33 pm#336166942767Participant
Hi Charity:
You say:
What a Jumble.
To me the Bible is as if two Gods Have shoved all their notes into one book, the gods watch an wait as their words toss an turn, snare an trap, set free an cast into hell.
CUTTING Jesus off was the only way the Romans could stop him fifilling his mission
To you the bible may seem if there are two Gods, but to me, I know that there is Only One God, and yes, the Romans and the Pharisees thought that by killing him they had stopped him from fulfilling his mission, but no, he obeyed God even in spite of what they were to do to him and did to him, and in doing so, he obeyed God without sin even unto death, and God raised him from the dead unto eternal life never to die again, and because he lives, anyone who wants to be reconciled to God can do so by coming to God with a repentant heart confessing Jesus as Lord, and through his sacifice and learning to live their lives through the example of his life, they also will inherit eternal life.
Quote 1Cr 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
1Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Quote Rom 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called [to be] an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Quote Hbr 5:5 ¶ So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. Hbr 5:6 As he saith also in another [place], Thou [art] a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hbr 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Quote Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, , whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.
Love in Christ,
MartyFebruary 18, 2013 at 5:37 pm#336167942767ParticipantQuote (Stu @ Feb. 18 2013,17:21) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2013,09:48) Hi Stu: You ask:
l
Quote How can an opinion be wrong?? An opinion may include factually incorrect assertions, but if you are going to deal in facts perhaps you should start with the question of existence before you tell me that my facts about your completely invisible and inaudible god are wrong. Your opinion is wrong because you obviously do not have a personal relatonship with Him as I do. I know that He exists because I had my own Exodus, deliverance to the bondage from sin, in February 1980 when I asked him for help in keeping my family together if he was a reality when my wife was going to leave and take my son with her. He revealed to me that He is a reality by baptizing me with the Holy Spirit, and although my wife left me for 3 months, she returned to me and we have just celebrated our 48th year anniversary this past January, and she also since that time has had her own Exodus experience. Since I have come into a personal relationship with Him, I know Him as my heavenly Father as my helper as I go through this life, who loves me enough to correct me when He sees me doing something that would be detrimental to me and possibly to others if I continue in my way, who forgives me when I confess my faults with a repentant heart, who gives me an abundant life, providing me with all of my needs in this life, and assurance of eternal life with eternal joy in the world to come.
And so, yes, since I know Him in an intimate way, I know that your opinion of Him is wrong, and you also are wrong about me in your assertion that I serve Him because of my fear of being destroyed, and that I am delusional, and also, that I am an African American.
You see, you say these things about me without even knowing me in a personal way.And so, my personal experiences are historical facts to me. They happened and they are happening.
And so, God's moronic commands are “Love worketh no ill will to His neighbor, therefore “Love” is the fulfillment of the Law?
There are archeological finds such as Ron Wyatts finds that are disputed. The city of Jericho did exist, but there is also some disputations about the time that it existed, and so forth.
But what I know is through personal experience, and none, can dispute what I know to be the truth. Oh, you may say I am delusional or whatever else you may want to say, but that does not change the truth. God's Word is the truth whether you believe it or not.
Love in Christ,
Marty
If you are delusional then it isn't truth. I can't deny your experiences and the fortune you feel. But I'd suggest you have no basis whatever for attributing those experiences to gods. Do you think no non-believers have had the same kinds of experiences as you? Those people who have had the same experiences but never thought they should attribute them to gods, are they wrong? You mumbling to an Imaginary Friend and then seeing a desire come true is no reason to believe the Imaginary Friend actually exists. Are you saying this god that reunited your family is the same one who appeared in the abominable story of Abraham and Isaac, that ordered the killing of the firstborn of Egypt, that set bears to kill unruly youths, that tells people they will be happy smashing the children of Babylon into the stones? Nonsense. It was you building relationships, not your Imaginary Friend.My opinion is still correctly described as my opinion regardless of what your opinion of it is. I'm afraid I can't be impressed by the facts you put before us. My opinion remains that this monstrous god is something you fear (the bible tells you many times to fear it) and yet it supposedly demands your love on pain of burning sulfur.
For this god to even comment on love would be sick.
Stuart
Hi Stu:But I am not delusional, and I have a personal relationship with Him, and therefore, I can tell you the truth because of my personal experience.
You do not know Him or me and therefore, because I do know Him or me, I can tell you that your opinion is wrong on both counts.
I don't attribute my experiences to “gods” but unto the “one and only God” and to His Only begoten Son, but you are not the one to tell me to whom to attribute my personal experiences. How do you know?
You say that you can't deny that my experiences happened.Let those who have had similar experiences attribute them to whom they will. I don't know what kind of experiences they have had, but it does not change what I know to be the truth through my personal experience.
God will destroy the first born of Egypt, symbolic of the world, and is speaking of God destroying the firstborn of mankind who have not been born again. The first born, who have not been already been judged, who died in their sins will be raised from the dead to be judged according to their works and destroyed. The firstborn of Egypt who are alive and in their sins when the Lord comes for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues and destroyed.
Quote Jhn 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. Jhn 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.
Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Quote Jhn 12:45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
Love in Christ,
MartyFebruary 19, 2013 at 12:19 am#336183charityParticipantMarty Tell me Do the Pharisee still exist?
If so,
You need to snap onto it Marty..pharisee's used the Bible to survive.
As I said, a clue is not taken, An Judgement failed to commence.
see God an Free will are not compatable.
Charity
February 19, 2013 at 12:27 am#336185942767ParticipantQuote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2013,07:45) Hi Tim: One other thought relative to why God allows women to suffer the same child birth pains that Eve had to suffer because of her disobedience:
When children came forth from the seed of Adam, the children born to them were exactly like them, human flesh and blood.
Quote Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image;[ and called his name Seth: Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Tim, Stu, and Charity:We know that birthpangs are a reality for women in childbearing.
If God does not exist and we have arrived at our present state of humanity as human primates by natural selection, it would seem that this, as you say, “God awful problem”, would have already been fixed for innocent women who had nothing to do with Eve's sin.
But maybe there is hope ahead as these brilliant scientific minds may eventually bring forth children out of a test tube. The only problem is that these children won't have a navel, but then women won't have to suffer in childbearing, and human sex can be done soley for self gratification, and not for the propagation of the human race. And sex can be whatever the mind can imagine, and with whomsoever those human primates desire.
Then only those dumb animals will have sex for the sake of bringing forth their young, and only they will have to go through those “God awful birthpangs”.
What do you think?
Love in Christ,
MartyFebruary 19, 2013 at 1:13 am#336192charityParticipantI take it you Don't believe Jesus ended the curse. which was from the Garden. Which is evident that he didn't.
Two an two should = Jesus will not fifill what was wrong. Again the clues are ignored. an the Pharisee grows to the Largest religious insitution on earth deceiving only those whom are convinced the words are all Gods.
clues sir. clues!
charity
February 19, 2013 at 1:44 am#336199charityParticipantyou may think its right to block some of us from your chats as the enemy, hence there are many clues written by your true enemy, even words That will Make you Hate an condemn us as if we are the problem.
February 19, 2013 at 6:58 am#336227StuParticipantQuote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2013,03:37) Hi Stu: But I am not delusional, and I have a personal relationship with Him, and therefore, I can tell you the truth because of my personal experience.
You do not know Him or me and therefore, because I do know Him or me, I can tell you that your opinion is wrong on both counts.
I can only go on what you post here. On that basis, I think you are deluded.Quote I don't attribute my experiences to “gods” but unto the “one and only God” and to His Only begoten Son, but you are not the one to tell me to whom to attribute my personal experiences. How do you know?
Sorry I couldn’t understand that. Could you clarify?Quote You say that you can't deny that my experiences happened. Let those who have had similar experiences attribute them to whom they will. I don't know what kind of experiences they have had, but it does not change what I know to be the truth through my personal experience.
I accept that all of this could be very real inside your head. But none of it is real outside your head.Quote God will destroy the first born of Egypt, symbolic of the world, and is speaking of God destroying the firstborn of mankind who have not been born again. The first born, who have not been already been judged, who died in their sins will be raised from the dead to be judged according to their works and destroyed. The firstborn of Egypt who are alive and in their sins when the Lord comes for the church will be judged by the seven last plagues and destroyed.
I didn’t need more reasons not to be a christian, but you have given me some anyway.Stuart
February 19, 2013 at 7:24 am#336228StuParticipantQuote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2013,10:27) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2013,07:45) Hi Tim: One other thought relative to why God allows women to suffer the same child birth pains that Eve had to suffer because of her disobedience:
When children came forth from the seed of Adam, the children born to them were exactly like them, human flesh and blood.
Quote Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image;[ and called his name Seth: Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi Tim, Stu, and Charity:We know that birthpangs are a reality for women in childbearing.
If God does not exist and we have arrived at our present state of humanity as human primates by natural selection, it would seem that this, as you say, “God awful problem”, would have already been fixed for innocent women who had nothing to do with Eve's sin.
Our species, both male and female need a fairly narrow pelvis in order that we can run, running being an essential adaptation for our ancestors when they moved onto the African Savannah nearly four million years ago. But women's hips need to be wide enough for the birth canal to open when giving birth to children with heads as large as ours, so as usual natural selection has stumbled upon a compromise that works, even if it is less than ideal. Of course the other adaptation that helps birth is that the skull plates are still independent and can change the shape of the child's head to make it fit better through the birth canal.Of course only 100 years ago death during childbirth was commonplace for newborns and mothers alike. So if the Judeo-christian fantasy story is right, it rather understates the “punishment” for Eve's sin: the punishment includes a chance of death or disablement as well as just pain. Some creation, eh!
Of course the concept of Adam and Eve is a fantasy story invented by ignorant ancient Jews, it is an impossible story biologically. So the immoral inter-generational punishment for an ancestor's sin is based on events that never took place.
But eating a forbidden apple is just the kind of thing humans would have done, right?!
Quote But maybe there is hope ahead as these brilliant scientific minds may eventually bring forth children out of a test tube. The only problem is that these children won't have a navel, but then women won't have to suffer in childbearing, and human sex can be done soley for self gratification, and not for the propagation of the human race. And sex can be whatever the mind can imagine, and with whomsoever those human primates desire.
You sound jealous of this utopia. I think it very unlikely. Of course it is none of your business what consenting adults do with one another in private, although so many christians seem to want to make it their business.Quote Then only those dumb animals will have sex for the sake of bringing forth their young, and only they will have to go through those “God awful birthpangs”.
I think humans suffer birthing pain much more than other mammal species.Stuart
February 19, 2013 at 8:38 am#3362382beseeParticipantQuote (Stu @ Feb. 18 2013,23:01) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 18 2013,19:15) Stuart, I can understand what you are saying as i have been there myself and almost decided that I did not want to follow that god, seeing all of the nastiness etc, and the fact that i thought that people only followed that god due to their fear of going to hell, and i thought this was selfish, so I do understand what you are saying however, there is more to it than just that. i personally do not believe in eternal conscious torment in hell and i think this is completely the opposite of what God is – and I do believe that God is love. God offers us eternal life. God gave us life. Man is responsible for the evil that is in the world but they chose instead to put the blame on God or on some other being, and I do not believe this. I believe that God loves us, even you Stuart.
I see that gods can be whatever believers want them to be.I also see that even though gods apparently can do anything they want, and invented everything, nevertheless they bear no responsibility for the bits of their creation that have gone wrong. Perhaps humans are responsible for evil on the planet, but they are also responsible for generating the joy of a rewarding life. You can't give that responsibility away to a god, or else you are a slave. Perhaps you like being a slave.
Why on earth would you want “eternal life”, whatever that means?
Stuart
Stuart,To be in contact with the creator of the whole world can be quite an amazing thing. I will tell you that true contact is not what you imagine it to be. From experience, I know. As you sit in silence in the presence of the almighty, you are one with not only the creator but also with creation. God has great power. perhaps if I could show you that power then you would believe me, but today we have what scripture says, that men will have a form of godley devotion, proving false to it's power.
God loves you.
I know, you probably heard that before. But i can tell you, that God still loves you.2nd Peter 3:9
'The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.'You ask what eternal life is supposed to mean……… Well, think this life now, the good side of it, the best side of it, magnified uncountable times, where there is no more sadness, no more suffering, no more death, no more illness. In fact, scripture tells us that it has not even entered the mind of what good God has in store for those who love Him.
If you loved somebody then you would only what is best for them, all of the time, true?
Well, that is God.But the one thing that God has not taken from us is our choice to choose.
February 19, 2013 at 8:41 am#3362402beseeParticipantGod and Charity and all here,
Do you believe that God does care about creation? Do you believe that God feels compassion on us? Well, in answer, God does. I know this, I have felt it when in prayer. It is sad.
February 19, 2013 at 8:43 am#3362412beseeParticipantQuote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,20:41) God and Charity and all here, Do you believe that God does care about creation? Do you believe that God feels compassion on us? Well, in answer, God does. I know this, I have felt it when in prayer. It is sad.
lol, sorry, big typo!!It was supposed to say Stuart and Charity and all here!
February 19, 2013 at 9:10 am#336247StuParticipantQuote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,18:38) Stuart, To be in contact with the creator of the whole world can be quite an amazing thing. I will tell you that true contact is not what you imagine it to be. From experience, I know. As you sit in silence in the presence of the almighty, you are one with not only the creator but also with creation. God has great power. perhaps if I could show you that power then you would believe me, but today we have what scripture says, that men will have a form of godley devotion, proving false to it's power.
to choose.
That sounds exactly like what Tom Cruise said in his Scientology rant that can be seen on YouTube. Not the exact words, but the exact same megalomania and tragic delusion.Quote God loves you. I know, you probably heard that before. But i can tell you, that God still loves you.
The fairies in my garden love me. And Santa Claus. And the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I have so many other sources of imaginary love that I don’t feel I need your god’s “love” too. Especially not when it supposedly comes from a monster that has slaughtered perhaps 24,000,000 of my fellow humans, if your fantasy conspiracy theory is right. I think I can do without that kind of “love” thanks.Quote You ask what eternal life is supposed to mean……… Well, think this life now, the good side of it, the best side of it, magnified uncountable times, where there is no more sadness, no more suffering, no more death, no more illness. In fact, scripture tells us that it has not even entered the mind of what good God has in store for those who love Him.
How perfectly dreadful. Why would you want that? It destroys the meaning of the one life you definitely know you have, regardless of what fantasy stories you believe. Real life is so wasted on christians.Quote If you loved somebody then you would only what is best for them, all of the time, true?
Well, that is God.
And do you think your god gave the Midianites what was best for them?Quote But the one thing that God has not taken from us is our choice to choose.
And Cold War era East Berliners had the option to jump the Berlin Wall. The East German guards didn’t burn the attempted escapees in sulfur like your god would have done, they would shoot them, but the principle is the same.Stuart
February 19, 2013 at 9:19 am#336248StuParticipantQuote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,18:43) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,20:41) God and Charity and all here, Do you believe that God does care about creation? Do you believe that God feels compassion on us? Well, in answer, God does. I know this, I have felt it when in prayer. It is sad.
lol, sorry, big typo!!It was supposed to say Stuart and Charity and all here!
If you are asking me (I'm not speaking for charity!) then don't you think that is a pretty ridiculous question to pose to an atheist?You are asking me whether I agree that a being which exists only in some human imaginations cares about a universe that came about as a result of no intent by any being.
Had you considered what the world looks like from my point of view?
Stuart
February 19, 2013 at 9:34 am#3362552beseeParticipantQuote (Stu @ Feb. 19 2013,21:19) Had you considered what the world looks like from my point of view? Stuart
No.
I have always believed in a creator, even when I chose not to follow the creator.What is it like to be an Atheist?
February 19, 2013 at 10:33 am#336273StuParticipantQuote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,19:34) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 19 2013,21:19) Had you considered what the world looks like from my point of view? Stuart
No.
I have always believed in a creator, even when I chose not to follow the creator.What is it like to be an Atheist?
It is the sensation of basing your spirituality only on things that can reasonably be shown to be true.Stuart
February 19, 2013 at 11:16 am#3362852beseeParticipantStuart,
“basing your spirituality only on things that can reasonably be shown to be true”.
What to you is hope, and dreams?
Is that spirit?
February 19, 2013 at 11:50 am#336304StuParticipantQuote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,21:16) Stuart, “basing your spirituality only on things that can reasonably be shown to be true”.
What to you is hope, and dreams?
Is that spirit?
As far as I know I am a member of the only species that can know something about the universe and how we fit into it. We are the way the universe can know itself. Spirituality is my sense of awe in regards to that realisation.Stuart
February 19, 2013 at 12:52 pm#336310charityParticipantQuote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,18:41) God and Charity and all here, Do you believe that God does care about creation? Do you believe that God feels compassion on us? Well, in answer, God does. I know this, I have felt it when in prayer. It is sad.
wouldn't it be nice if God just answered everybodyNot all the creation are compassionate…
An they do reflect God threw their own awareness.
Harsh or caring is subject to morals.Old Israel could Hardly feel Love emotions while being Punished by God. A clue Dose God Punish Whole Nations as guilty.
I dont think so…That sounds Like a bully dictator cashing up On Human emotions.
Have you ever Had someone over you that keeps you feeling guilty, feeling to yourself, this person really Hates me, An cares enough not leave me. so toxic you cant Rise up an breath your own worth because some ones feeding of your very existence.for a good reason really well hidden.February 19, 2013 at 10:07 pm#3363222beseeParticipantQuote (charity @ Feb. 20 2013,00:52) Quote (2besee @ Feb. 19 2013,18:41) God and Charity and all here, Do you believe that God does care about creation? Do you believe that God feels compassion on us? Well, in answer, God does. I know this, I have felt it when in prayer. It is sad.
wouldn't it be nice if God just answered everybodyNot all the creation are compassionate…
An they do reflect God threw their own awareness.
Harsh or caring is subject to morals.Old Israel could Hardly feel Love emotions while being Punished by God. A clue Dose God Punish Whole Nations as guilty.
I dont think so…That sounds Like a bully dictator cashing up On Human emotions.
Have you ever Had someone over you that keeps you feeling guilty, feeling to yourself, this person really Hates me, An cares enough not leave me. so toxic you cant Rise up an breath your own worth because some ones feeding of your very existence.for a good reason really well hidden.Quote
Have you ever Had someone over you that keeps you feeling guilty, feeling to yourself, this person really Hates me, An cares enough not leave me. so toxic you cant Rise up an breath your own worth because some ones feeding of your very existence.for a good reason really well hidden.Charity, yes I do know.
God knows everything that happens, God is watching, but God often waits, and sometimes He will lead you to where it is safer and better, if you are willing.
Sin is doing harm to another, either seen or unseen.
God is love, do not be fooled by what some claim.
Even the OT, I see the OT as words within a book, meaning, I do not even know the storyline. “Here a little, there a little” and a communication tool to every individual at whatever stage in their life, ultimately leading to the promise of the freedom that Christ gives, and the truth.Christianity is only a label of a group of people believing similar, but, a Christian is one in their heart, do not be fooled.
February 19, 2013 at 10:14 pm#3363232beseeParticipantStuart,
What is spirit, what are dreams, what are visualizations? Are they spirit? Do they have solidity? Are they real? - AuthorPosts
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