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Quote (Mary @ Mar. 26 2013,13:07) You tell Jesus that 97! You tell him we will not to worship his brutal death as his murders require us to!
Hi Mary:But no, Mary, you are misunderstanding what we celebrate, I don't celebrate his brutal death, but I celebrate the fact that He obeyed God in spite of what man could and did to him, and as a consequence as of His obedience, God has raised him from the dead. Mary, he is not dead. He is alive, and he is seated at the right hand of God, exalted to the head of the church.
But not everyone who states they are Christians, are Christians, some are Cardinals, or go by some other name under the pretense of being part of the Lord's church. Others pretend for the sake of taking peoples money, and so, you do have to be careful that you don't follow someone who is not ordained of God.
Quote Mat 7:15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 ¶ Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Quote Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Quote Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Quote Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 ¶ For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell;
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Stu @ Mar. 25 2013,15:21) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 25 2013,08:08) And what if Jesus had died in his sleep aged 85 years? Stuart
Hi Stu:Jesus obeyed God without sin in spite of what could do to him. Man has the power to kill the body, and because he does have that power, there are some who would try to force you to do what they want you to do through intimidation.
But he as well as we who are his disciples will worship and serve God our heavenly Father. If he had died at in his sleep at the age of 85, he would not have faced this chalenge.
Quote
Mat 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve
Love in Christ,
Marty[/quote]
So it's a good thing that Jesus was killed by the Romans on a Jewish tip-off. It gave him the chance to be faced with a challenge he could then surmount.That's a bit like the nasty line taken by the theologian Richard Swinburne who suggested that the Holocaust gave the Jews an opportunity to be courageous and noble.
I sometimes wonder if it is disappointing that there is no hell for the thinkers of such nasty thoughts to burn in.
Stuart
Stu.This was written 500 yrs before it happened.
I know this will make no difference to you,since your religion
is science.
Just as religions are accepting grants from the government,
so is science. They are both prostitutes.Psalms 22:1 **My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me**? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
Psalms 22:2 *O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent*.
Psalms 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Psalms 22:4 * Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them*.
Psalms 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psalms 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and *despised of the people*.
Psalms 22:7 **All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying**,
Psalms 22:8 *He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him*.
Psalms 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psalms 22:10 *I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly*.
Psalms 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Psalms 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Psalms 22:13 *They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion*.
Psalms 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psalms 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; *and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws*; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: **they pierced my hands and my feet**.
Psalms 22:17 **I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me**.
Psalms 22:18 **They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture**.
Psalms 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psalms 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psalms 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psalms 22:22 **I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee**.
Psalms 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Psalms 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; **but when he cried unto him, he heard**.
Psalms 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
Psalms 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: **and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee**.
Psalms 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and *he is the governor among the nations*.
Psalms 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psalms 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Psalms 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people *that shall be born*, *that he hath done this*.
wakeup.
Quote (Mary @ Mar. 26 2013,13:07) You tell Jesus that 97! You tell him we will not to worship his brutal death as his murders require us to!
Also, Mary, I do not worship Jesus as God, He said:Quote Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
And he said when he was about to ascend into heaven:
Quote Jhn 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jhn 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
What I am trying to do is to let those who are preaching and teaching false doctrines the truth so that we can come into unity and teach God's Word in truth, and then people like yourself will not have such a hard time understanding the truth.
Love in Christ,
MartyPeople have no idea what real light can achieve, judge the murder of Jesus, an c the power that Jesus left you to use!
Quote (Mary @ Mar. 27 2013,05:34) People have no idea what real light can achieve, judge the murder of Jesus, an c the power that Jesus left you to use!
mary.so why dont you tell us about that light?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 27 2013,01:36) This was written 500 yrs before it happened.
Spooky.Quote I know this will make no difference to you,since your religion
is science.
If you think religions are a good thing, then I will accept your compliment. I personally don't think religions are good things though.Quote Just as religions are accepting grants from the government, so is science. They are both prostitutes.
It's one heck of a prostitute.Quote Psalms 22:1 **My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me**? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? Psalms 22:2 *O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent*.
Psalms 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
Psalms 22:4 * Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them*.
Psalms 22:5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psalms 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and *despised of the people*.
Psalms 22:7 **All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying**,
Psalms 22:8 *He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him*.
Psalms 22:9 But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts.
Psalms 22:10 *I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly*.
Psalms 22:11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.
Psalms 22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
Psalms 22:13 *They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion*.
Psalms 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Psalms 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; *and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws*; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
Psalms 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: **they pierced my hands and my feet**.
Psalms 22:17 **I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me**.
Psalms 22:18 **They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture**.
Psalms 22:19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psalms 22:20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psalms 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.
Psalms 22:22 **I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee**.
Psalms 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
Psalms 22:24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; **but when he cried unto him, he heard**.
Psalms 22:25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.
Psalms 22:26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psalms 22:27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: **and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee**.
Psalms 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and *he is the governor among the nations*.
Psalms 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.
Psalms 22:30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.
Psalms 22:31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people *that shall be born*, *that he hath done this*.
When you write “This was written 500 yrs before it happened” what you really mean is that it was written down twice, with an interval of hundreds of years in the middle. Why did the gospel writers claim that Jesus did the forsaken routine? Was it because Jesus said those words in Aramaic, or was it because they had a prophecy to fulfill for geopolitical reasons?Stuart
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 26 2013,22:39) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 26 2013,16:43) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:43) Hi Stu and Mary: What is unfortunate is that you have not believed the love of the truth.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
The good news of Jesus is that this is all made up after his death by zealots keen to make political capital. It's not really true, thankfully.Stuart
This is where Stu leaves his testable, empirical hiding place in the laboratory and goes down the hall to enlighten the theology class.That's why I say you aren't a true scientist, you hold the religious to a standard that you yourself don't adhere to.
Colter
Am I supposed to have the best, most robust arguments all the time? I know you have come to expect that from me.I'm not allowed a little bald assertion of my own? And it's not as if what I say is based in no evidence at all.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 27 2013,15:33) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 26 2013,22:39) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 26 2013,16:43) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:43) Hi Stu and Mary: What is unfortunate is that you have not believed the love of the truth.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
The good news of Jesus is that this is all made up after his death by zealots keen to make political capital. It's not really true, thankfully.Stuart
This is where Stu leaves his testable, empirical hiding place in the laboratory and goes down the hall to enlighten the theology class.That's why I say you aren't a true scientist, you hold the religious to a standard that you yourself don't adhere to.
Colter
Am I supposed to have the best, most robust arguments all the time? I know you have come to expect that from me.I'm not allowed a little bald assertion of my own? And it's not as if what I say is based in no evidence at all.
Stuart
Yes Stu, we will let you be the smartest person in the room if you need to be and yes, you are allowed the bald assertions that you make often, but I would equally defend the science lab from the ridiculous assertions of the theology class; young earth, six day creation etc.Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 27 2013,22:10) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 27 2013,15:33) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 26 2013,22:39) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 26 2013,16:43) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:43) Hi Stu and Mary: What is unfortunate is that you have not believed the love of the truth.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
The good news of Jesus is that this is all made up after his death by zealots keen to make political capital. It's not really true, thankfully.Stuart
This is where Stu leaves his testable, empirical hiding place in the laboratory and goes down the hall to enlighten the theology class.That's why I say you aren't a true scientist, you hold the religious to a standard that you yourself don't adhere to.
Colter
Am I supposed to have the best, most robust arguments all the time? I know you have come to expect that from me.I'm not allowed a little bald assertion of my own? And it's not as if what I say is based in no evidence at all.
Stuart
Yes Stu, we will let you be the smartest person in the room if you need to be and yes, you are allowed the bald assertions that you make often, but I would equally defend the science lab from the ridiculous assertions of the theology class; young earth, six day creation etc.Colter
I hardly ever allow myself bald assertion. And it's not me quoting a book that claims the universe is 72 times older than it really is, so your claims about me are hypocritical to say the least.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 27 2013,22:43) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 27 2013,22:10) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 27 2013,15:33) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 26 2013,22:39) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 26 2013,16:43) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:43) Hi Stu and Mary: What is unfortunate is that you have not believed the love of the truth.
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
The good news of Jesus is that this is all made up after his death by zealots keen to make political capital. It's not really true, thankfully.Stuart
This is where Stu leaves his testable, empirical hiding place in the laboratory and goes down the hall to enlighten the theology class.That's why I say you aren't a true scientist, you hold the religious to a standard that you yourself don't adhere to.
Colter
Am I supposed to have the best, most robust arguments all the time? I know you have come to expect that from me.I'm not allowed a little bald assertion of my own? And it's not as if what I say is based in no evidence at all.
Stuart
Yes Stu, we will let you be the smartest person in the room if you need to be and yes, you are allowed the bald assertions that you make often, but I would equally defend the science lab from the ridiculous assertions of the theology class; young earth, six day creation etc.Colter
I hardly ever allow myself bald assertion. And it's not me quoting a book that claims the universe is 72 times older than it really is, so your claims about me are hypocritical to say the least.Stuart
You aren't even consistent within threads of the same forum. On another thread you claimed “Science doesn't deal in certainties” while on this thread you have a certain age for the universe?…..and it's not 72 time's, that's just the age of our local universe created by Christ Michael, some have calculated the UB's assertion at 40 trillion years old when considering the age of the first of 7 supper-universe's. These universes are said to expand and contract giving the impression of “young universe” to scientists.
Many former Atheists made these same small minded claims as they insisted on viewing reality in one dimension.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 28 2013,00:03) You aren't even consistent within threads of the same forum. On another thread you claimed “Science doesn't deal in certainties” while on this thread you have a certain age for the universe? …..and it's not 72 time's, that's just the age of our local universe created by Christ Michael, some have calculated the UB's assertion at 40 trillion years old when considering the age of the first of 7 supper-universe's. These universes are said to expand and contract giving the impression of “young universe” to scientists.
Many former Atheists made these same small minded claims as they insisted on viewing reality in one dimension.
Colter
Science does deal with “certainly not”.If the UB was well-written then at least it might serve as mildly diverting science fiction. Some even rate it as such.
But it's poorly written, stolen, and out-of-date.
Stuart
Even the heavens are caught disputing who The Lord is, the beasts around the throne are even in sure of who's feet to fall at an worship! They are so unsure, THE resurrecting of Jesus is as useless in the heavens as it is earth?
Quote (Mary @ Mar. 28 2013,21:16) Even the heavens are caught disputing who The Lord is, the beasts around the throne are even in sure of who's feet to fall at an worship! They are so unsure, THE resurrecting of Jesus is as useless in the heavens as it is earth?
Mary.What are you on about Mary?
What really is your believe?
Do you believe in nature;the universe,carma,or some other?wakeup.
Quote (Mary @ Mar. 28 2013,21:16) Even the heavens are caught disputing who The Lord is, the beasts around the throne are even in sure of who's feet to fall at an worship! They are so unsure, THE resurrecting of Jesus is as useless in the heavens as it is earth?
The Book of Revelation (or book of a lunatic) wasn't added to the cannon until after 397 AD, perhaps decided at The Council of Carthage or even 419, at least 100 years after ther RCC approved the other books of their bible. It reveals nothing but confusion and Halloween ideas.Confusion is a possession of man, Jesus was never surprised or confused about anything.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 30 2013,12:55) The Book of Revelation (or book of a lunatic)
I agree, but your hypocrisy stinks even this far away.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 30 2013,15:49) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 30 2013,12:55) The Book of Revelation (or book of a lunatic)
I agree, but your hypocrisy stinks even this far away.Stuart
Stu.Why dont you like hypocrisy?
What is wrong with hypocrisy?
Are you a prejudice?We are as we are,we are all of nature.
Why can one not steal your goods?
what are you to judge nature,and how it works.One does what one has to do to survive.
If one needs to rob and steal to provide for the family
whats wrong with that?
Can one judge a monkey, because he stole his mates banana?wakeup.
Quote (Stu @ Mar. 30 2013,15:49) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 30 2013,12:55) The Book of Revelation (or book of a lunatic)
I agree, but your hypocrisy stinks even this far away.Stuart
I've read both books, the UB is far more consistent then the bible books.You haven't read all the UB, particularly the Jesus papers, your uneducated opinion is from silence, your claim of objectivity is laughable.
Charity is an honest broker and acknowledges positive aspects of the UB that she agrees with.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 30 2013,21:45) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 30 2013,15:49) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 30 2013,12:55) The Book of Revelation (or book of a lunatic)
I agree, but your hypocrisy stinks even this far away.Stuart
I've read both books, the UB is far more consistent then the bible books.You haven't read all the UB, particularly the Jesus papers, your uneducated opinion is from silence, your claim of objectivity is laughable.
Charity is an honest broker and acknowledges positive aspects of the UB that she agrees with.
Colter
That's fine for her. Your hypocrisy still smells.Stuart
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 30 2013,11:05) Quote (Mary @ Mar. 28 2013,21:16) Even the heavens are caught disputing who The Lord is, the beasts around the throne are even in sure of who's feet to fall at an worship! They are so unsure, THE resurrecting of Jesus is as useless in the heavens as it is earth?
Mary.What are you on about Mary?
What really is your believe?
Do you believe in nature;the universe,carma,or some other?wakeup.
You wouldn't be interested!
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