Are we born with SIN?

Participant

Hi,
This is a very good forum.
A thought. Satan is the god of this world. Could all on earth be considered servants of Satan in the kingdom of darkness till they are transferred to the kingdom of the Son? Could this have something to do with these issues?

April 7, 2006 at 5:15 am#38905

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 07 2006,05:37)

Ephesians 2:1-3 tells us we were once by nature the children of wrath, by nature tending to indicate by the natural birth.
We need a rebirth and a new nature to be considered the children of God.
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 would also tend to indicate that what Nick says is so.

April 7, 2006 at 5:52 am#38906

Participant

Hi Malcolm,
Jesus indicated that the kingdom of darkness had an organised basis.
Lk 11.17
“Any kingdom divided against itself falls. If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I sat out demons by Beelzebub. And if I, by Beelzebub, cast out demons, by who do your sons cast them out? So they will be their judges. But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. But when some one stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him he takes away from him all his armour on which he had relied and distributes his plunder. He who is not with me is against me;and he who does not gather with me scatters”

Is not Jesus saying
Satan is a king and has a kingdom on earth that is powerful and organised. It includes demons as his servants who live in men and control them as part of this work. Satan has plundered the earth so is not king by right but by occupation. Only Jesus is powerful enough to overcome it and establish God's kingdom of light on earth. All men are under Satan's rule and influence unless they are reborn into the Son, recognise the enemy and battle against him alongside Christ.

Try Eph 2. 1-3

April 7, 2006 at 6:10 am#38907

Participant

Nick
Right on
When Satan showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth and told him to bow before him to get them,
Jesus did not say “No they are not yours! they belong to my Father”
neither did he bow, because he knew he would fall hier to them in the 1000 year reign to come.
They belong to Satan for the time being by default. Sin caused this present world to be separated from God.
But Jesus blood has purchased all that are God's on this earth. Jesus snatched the keys to hell and death from Satan I believe and served him notice, an eviction notice that is soon to be acted upon.
I think you are right Satan has an organised kingdom on this earth, it involves organised religion, it seeks to copy and improve upon the plan of God.
Copy and improve upon by being a tree not just of life – (Word of God) but also of Knowledge.
This is a mixed or hybrid tree producing a mixed fruit. As anyone knows hybrid corn looks better than normal corn, yet it is unable to produce another generation (Gen 1:11)
That is why Jesus overcame him by not living on bread alone but every Word of God.
That was why Eve fell, she listend to one who added just one word to that of God.
The word added was “NOT”
God had said “The day you eat it you shall die”
The Serpent said “You shall NOT surely die”
So one word added brought sin into the world
And at the end of the Bible it says not to add to or take from the Word….

April 7, 2006 at 6:51 am#38908

Participant

Hi Malcolm,
So as sons of Satan were we not worthy of wrath?

April 7, 2006 at 6:56 am#38909

Participant

I don't know about the sons of Satan bit.
We were lost sheep not goats.

April 7, 2006 at 1:56 pm#38910

Cubes

Participant

Quote (sandra @ April 06 2006,23:46)

Thus, I believe that Christ's life as the Son of Mary gave him some degree of propensity towards sin, though not as us since he was also born by the holy spirit at birth.

Cubes, Jesus was tempted, is that what you are referring to? When you say, he had a propensity towards sin. But he is most definitely not the son of mary, so please, don't say that, He is the only begotten Son of The Lord Almighty God!

Hi Sandra,

I believe that the reason Jesus could die was because Mary was his mother genetically. Had his chromosomes been wholly 46 holy spirit, how could he die? He could die with Mary's 23 chromosomes because Mary too was affected by the Garden of Eden pronouncements of suffering and death related to eating of that Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Thus King David died, Mary died, and her son too could die though SINLESSLY, because he laid his life down for us to take it up again, per his Father's command.

My original post is on page 1 of this topic, dated February 15, 2006.

April 7, 2006 at 6:40 pm#38911

Participant

Nick, you said,

“Only Jesus is powerful enough to overcome it and establish God's kingdom of light on earth.”

John 19:30
When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished.” With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

Luke 17:21
nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.”

Satan has been defeated!

Psalm 110:1
The LORD says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
Luke 20:43
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”
Acts 2:35
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

But Nick, “God's Kingdom of Light, is not scriptural, it sounds like some new age phrase”

Revelation 21:1
[ The New Jerusalem ] Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.

April 7, 2006 at 9:10 pm#38912

Participant

Cubes
I don't know about the whole 50:50 Mary God thing
Doesn't it say in the Bible somewhere man that is born of woman is of few days …
Also was not Mary born with the sin nature?
How then would Jesus be born without sin if a part of his genetic material was Mary?

April 7, 2006 at 11:34 pm#38913

Participant

Quote

How then would Jesus be born without sin if a part of his genetic material was Mary?

During the time that Mary conceived of the Holy Ghost, sin temporarily was not present, that is why she states, “my soul doth magnify the Lord.”

Later,

Luke 11:27
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.” But, he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God and keep it.

April 8, 2006 at 1:41 am#38914

Participant

So Mary's genetic material was altered by being “blessed”?
How does the statement of Mary “my soul magnifies the Lord” cause sin to be temporarily not present?…

April 8, 2006 at 3:24 am#38915

Participant

Here are a few thoughts on the whole sin / sin-nature subject
Thought I'd throw them out there for comment

1 John 3:4 tells us sin is the breaking of the Law.
James 4:17 adds to this definition: to know to do good, and refuse to do it is sin.

Showing 2 aspects of what sin is?
Acts of transgression
and Disobedience or refusal to do what you know is right.

the James definition seems to me to deal with the motives and the other with the outcome or results.

So when we say sin we could mean one or the other.
To me the root of the sin problem is set forth by James : namely disobedience.
Acts of transgression that follow are sin by expression.

If a patient has a headache then the doctor cannot merely dismiss it as only a headache.
The doctor is supposed to examine the root cause of the headache.
It may be a symptom of a more serious problem such as cancer.

So it is with acts of transgression – although they speak of sin, they are not sin itself, they are symptomatic of sin.
This is why the Word of God examines the root cause, the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Due to the nature of our flesh we are subject to failure from time to time.
God does not consider the acts of the flesh in determining the origin of the problem.
Paul said it is not me that sins but sin working in me, through the weekness of my flesh.

Now that sounds like the mother of all excuses until you realize that he is saying – that didn't come from in here, in my heart. It came against the desire of my heart from out here in the weakness of my flesh.

April 8, 2006 at 9:45 am#38916

Ramblinrose

Participant

So Malcolm Ferris

Are we born with SIN? I don't believe we are.

April 8, 2006 at 12:58 pm#38917

Participant

I think what is more important to ask is born with sin or not are we OF that sinful one?
I don't think so, or our names would never have been written in the Lamb's book of Life before the foundation of the world.

April 8, 2006 at 4:57 pm#38918

TJStarfire

Participant

Are we born with sin? Yes of course,
sin is all around us we can't help but be with it.

We are born of sin. We are born in debt because of Adams sin.

April 8, 2006 at 5:24 pm#38919

TJStarfire

Participant

Hi Malcolm

Quote

I think what is more important to ask is born with sin or not are we OF that sinful one?

I don't believe that is the right question either.
I don't believe that the Satans are creators.
They were of God, before they rebelled,
were they not?

We are all of God.

The deciding factor in this struggle,
between the ways of peace and the ways of violence,
is who we chose to follow.

At the END of ones life in the flesh,
and when your works are judged,
the only question that matters is,
Whose way did you follow?

April 8, 2006 at 5:55 pm#38920

Participant

Romans 5:12
[ Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ ] Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:11-13 (in Context) Romans 5 (Whole Chapter)

April 8, 2006 at 9:10 pm#38921

Participant

I believe that 2nd century writings have more writings about Mary.

April 9, 2006 at 9:14 am#38922