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Gal 4:19 – Christ being formed in us. – morphe – taken on the form of
Gal 3:27 – Have put on Christ – enduo – have been clothed in or robed inSo this is the transformation of the soul, it has taken on a new form.
That form is the robe or clothing of Christ.This is not 2 different births. It describes the same thing the form we are robed in is Christ.
Man is not created more than once, then he is given various forms of bodies. Flesh, spirit, glorified flesh…
Hi Malcolm,
Gen 1 26
“Then God said
'Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness…God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them.
'Be fruitful and multiply…”So in what way is man created in the image of God? According to the flesh?
Not so. As Gen 2 clarifies man was first created flesh and the rest of his being comes from the breath of God-soul and spirit.
And since God is not flesh then the likeness to God must be of soul and spirit? Do you agree?
Where does it say the heavenly body we await is not in it's final glorified form and needs another process to bring this about?
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit, but where does it say it is our soul that is sealed? A seal is used to hold something in place like a seal on a letter.By it we are marked and kept, set apart for eternity.
There is no promise anywhere of a spirit body. The terms are mutually exclusive. A body and a spirit are different parts of our being. You say the outer man is a spirit of death? Where is this written? the body of flesh , our earthy nature battles against us as it lives for it's needs, wants and pleasures. Thank God it is already buried in Christ and when we die we will be entirely free from it's compulsions and able to live for God.
Indeed we need to win the battle of the mind. We can by attaining the mind of Christ , by being filled with the Spirit of Christ and feeding on the Word of life. The mind and heart are of the soul. We can become as the nature of Christ by the Spirit of Christ living in us, and as Joshua won the battle of the occupied promised land so we must allow the power of the Spirit to win the battle of the occupied rebellious mind and heart for us. That is the battle of the inner man.
You speak of the spirit of the mind. That too is a foreign and self contradictory term. The spirit is what gives us life and when we die it returns to God. The spirit is not the mind and the mind does not have a spirit.
Indeed Christ is born into us. Eventually we should be able to say like Paul
“It is no longer I that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me.”Genesis 2 is after Genesis 1 in terms of chronology, God took the spirit man created in Gen 1 and formed a body for him (Gen2). The images of God was the spirit man created in Gen 1.
Where does it say the heavenly body we await is not in it's final glorified form and needs another process to bring this about?
Try 1 Cor 15:51-54 and 1 Thess 4:16-17
If they need to be raised what is being raised? If the body was already in a glorified state they would simply appear.Regarding seals, letters were sealed to keep the contents from being viewed by any but the intended recipient. This is the usage that lines up with the sealing of the Holy Spirit.
EPHESIANS 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.Where does it say our souls are sealed?
II CORINTHIANS 1:22
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.PROVERBS 23:7
For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.ROMANS 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Heart and soul are synonyms, clearly the body is not sealed, we need a new one, the spirit is not sealed as you seal something to secure it, our spirit is a work in progress.
There is no promise anywhere of a spirit body.
Okay use the word celestial if you prefer.
You say the outer man is a spirit of death? Where is this written?
ROMANS 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?ROMANS 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.The spirit is not the mind and the mind does not have a spirit.
EPHESIANS 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.II TIMOTHY 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.Hi malcolm,
Thank you.
Can you deny the sequence shown in Gen 2.7? Surely you know that Gen 1 is expanded by Gen 2?The body does simply appear, put on over the perishable body.[1Cor 15] That is the heavenly body in it's complete form and nowhere does it say it is later changed.
“body of this death” “The body is dead”. The spirit is not dead. Body is body. Spirit is spirit.
Can you deny the sequence shown in Gen 2.7? Surely you know that Gen 1 is expanded by Gen 2?
GENESIS 2:4
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.So it seems to be saying that there was no plants growing here yet…
GENESIS 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.So now God creates the man (day 6) And then brings forth the plants? (day 2) …
GENESIS 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.(The word translated as 'created' here is different to the word translated as 'make' and the word translated as 'formed'.)
God created this man both male and female in spirit form first. (Gen 1)
Then formed man out of the dust, then took from his side and made woman. (Gen 2)GENESIS 2:18
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.Hold on if this is an elaboration on Gen 1 then I thought He had already created these creatures before he created the man, what is going on here?
GENESIS 2:21
And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.(Again a different word from the other three used here for 'made')
Now if this is an elaboration it is all out of sequence, you have creation happening all out of order – man, then the garden (plants), then creatures, then woman…
I just don't see how this can be the case.Body is body. Spirit is spirit.
I CORINTHIANS 15:39
All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.Body is body. Spirit is spirit.
I CORINTHIANS 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.I CORINTHIANS 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.Shall be – NOT are raised incorruptible, shall be raised, the resurrection of the mortal (flesh) to immortality is yet to come I believe.
By the way – I am enjoying this discussion immensely and learning a lot from it so far…
Hi Malcolm,
Look at Gen 2.4
“This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made heaven and earth.
Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the earth had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth”
So it is not an account of the whole of creation, but a detail of the day the earth and heaven were created.
Now it speaks of cultivation and not just potential vegetative life, for there was as yet no rain, and neither had the Sun been created [4th day] to allow growth.Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 03 2006,03:04) Gal 4:19 – Christ being formed in us. – morphe – taken on the form of
Gal 3:27 – Have put on Christ – enduo – have been clothed in or robed inSo this is the transformation of the soul, it has taken on a new form.
That form is the robe or clothing of Christ.This is not 2 different births. It describes the same thing the form we are robed in is Christ.
Man is not created more than once, then he is given various forms of bodies. Flesh, spirit, glorified flesh…
Hi Malcolm,
Gal 3.27
“For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ”Now it speaks of cultivation and not just potential vegetative life
GENESIS 1:11-12
And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.GENESIS 2:5
And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.This is the same word here herb in the Hebrew, before it grew – created as a seed?
So it is not an account of the whole of creation, but a detail of the day the earth and heaven were created.
So God created the heavens and the earth in one day?
for there was as yet no rain, and neither had the Sun been created [4th day] to allow growth.
So the sun is created on the forth day – and yet in this day when he is detailing the day he did all of the following it is not created?
Where does it say the sun was not created yet – I can't find it?
There is no rain mentioned in fact until the great flood, we are told a mist went up in the morning instead.Hi Malcolm,
Are any spirit beings, divine or angelic, male and female as you say man was created in the image of God? Are not angels asexual?Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2006,21:41) Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 03 2006,03:04) Gal 4:19 – Christ being formed in us. – morphe – taken on the form of
Gal 3:27 – Have put on Christ – enduo – have been clothed in or robed inSo this is the transformation of the soul, it has taken on a new form.
That form is the robe or clothing of Christ.This is not 2 different births. It describes the same thing the form we are robed in is Christ.
Man is not created more than once, then he is given various forms of bodies. Flesh, spirit, glorified flesh…
Hi Malcolm,
Gal 3.27
“For all of you who were baptised into Christ have clothed yourself with Christ”
So show me how this is two different things, I don't see it.
We are clothed in this flesh2 Cor 5:3 – Paul speaks of being clothed with the celestial body, the word is enduo same word as in Gal 3:27 translated as 'clothed'. Paul is speaking of a tabernacle or building not made with hands that replaces this earthly tabernacle of flesh, in other words we move from one form to the other. Gal 4:19 speaks of Christ being formed in us, the word 'morphe' in the Greek, this is not 2 different things but the same thing. It begins upon baptism of the spirit with a birth, through a process of development, like a child, into maturity or perfection.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2006,22:54) Hi Malcolm,
Are any spirit beings, divine or angelic, male and female as you say man was created in the image of God? Are not angels asexual?
Question for question – do animals have spirits? Did God make them male and female?Hi Malcolm,
I agree.
We must be born again of water AND the Spirit.
We are clothed in Christ through water baptism, we are now part of the body of Christ
but Christ is born into us by the baptism in the Spirit of Christ.The seed of the gospel is watered by the fountain of life to produce a shoot, then a leaf, then the full grown plant as Christ grows to live and work in and through us.
We are also clothed in a new body at the first resurrection, a heavenly body similar to that of the man from heaven.
Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 03 2006,23:00) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 03 2006,22:54) Hi Malcolm,
Are any spirit beings, divine or angelic, male and female as you say man was created in the image of God? Are not angels asexual?
Question for question – do animals have spirits? Did God make them male and female?
Hi Malcolm,
That is unrevealed as far as I know though Eccles 3.21 may suggest they do. Why would spirits who have no reproducible physical bodies be made male and female?Genesis does not say dust was coated on a spirit but it does say God blew His breath into the formed dust.
Do you not then say that woman is derived from the flesh of man if both were formed as spirits first?
Hi malcolm,
A spiritual body is not a spirit. It is a body. Spirits do not have bodies.Bodies do have spirits though. They have their own spirit that gives them life[Jas 2.26].The body of men may also contain the Spirit of Christ or demonic spirits who have found a home there. It may also be that the Spirit of God can rest in a donkey too since God seems to have spoken through one. [Num 22.30].
When scripture says “God is spirit” would you say that could mean God has a physical body?
Hi Malcolm,
When Gen 1 says the earth brought forth grass etc it does not say it happened immediately.It may simply be evidence that what God willed, happened.
Quote (malcolm ferris @ May 03 2006,06:23) ROMANS 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?ROMANS 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.EPHESIANS 4:22
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.II TIMOTHY 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Hi,
Indeed the flesh is the body of this death.The spirit of fear is demonic and is not given by God.
Do you really think our minds also have a spirit or could this not have simpler meaning such as the essential motivation of our minds?
Hi Malcolm,
The field where Adam tended his garden and where they grew was specific-in the location of Eden.The animals created by God were brought to Adam for him to name them. Again it does not necessarily mean they were created after Adam and just before they were brought to him.
Quote We are clothed in Christ through water baptism
Where is the scripture that says that?
I PETER 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:The water baptism is a type of the preparation of the sacrifice in the old testament.
Quote Do you not then say that woman is derived from the flesh of man if both were formed as spirits first? Show me where it says God breathed into Eve the breath of life.
Where then did the spirit for her life come from? It was in Adam but not yet manifest.
He said 'at last this is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.'Check out the Hebrew word translated as bone – it can also mean substance, essence or self.
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