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Quote (Cubes @ April 11 2006,16:19) Quote (Ramblinrose @ April 11 2006,13:27) …He has the right to take the throne as King as he IS from the seed of David as Joseph and Mary are his biological parents.
Hi RR,How do you reconcile the following passage to what you said?
Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold,* the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her* firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus.Secondly, what of the verses that say that he was in the beginning WITH God….
Also that he comes FROM God and furthermore, is the only one that has seen God? I have to run but shall try and post the exact verses for the benefit of all.
YHWH's Blessings.
For answers to these questions and others not yet asked please read the following article:
Virgin Birth – True or False – Fact or Fiction
Blessings
Hi Malcolm,
THe NASB does not say IS in the verse from John 3.13, only the quaint old KJV I would expect.I have put up the heavens forum for more insights.
Of course “Kingdom of Heaven” is of entirely different meaning. The newly appointed King, appointed by God in heaven, was speaking to them.
The fullness of the Kingdom was not yet visible and will not be till he returns in the 1000 year reign but the prince of the world had been cast down and the new King, the King of kings, came into their midst “riding on a donkey”For some reason the link I posted above is not working but I can't go in and correct it so here it is again.
Virgin Birth – True or False – Fact or Fiction
This one works.
Hi,
Ramblinrose continues his never ending search for new biblical unitarian converts. Why not grasp something fresh and new and of eternal value RR?Scripture says men prefer old wine.
But the new wine is good so long as you buy a new wineskin.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2006,23:34) Hi,
Ramblinrose continues his never ending search for new biblical unitarian converts. Why not grasp something fresh and new and of eternal value RR?Scripture says men prefer old wine.
But the new wine is good so long as you buy a new wineskin.
NickWhy must you always resort to insulting those who have different views from you?.
I understood this to be a discussion board, did I get that wrong?
You state your views on a verse, I state mine, others state theirs.Where have I stated that everyone MUST agree with what I have written?
I would assume we are all mature enough to make our own decisions as to what we believe.If you consider you have a better viewpoint with verses to support it why not just put them forward and stop making it personal.
I could also throw verses like the following at you:
Matthew 7:6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
But I know this is pointless because these verses are used in an attempt to defend our own beliefs but that does not mean the person saying it has the truth.
You insulted me before on the board to the point that I stopped posting. When I saw you had left I began posting again and have been enjoying discussions with those participating. I do wonder if that is the aim of your jibes, to once again drive me away.
A debate is won by those who bring the best points forward, not by those
who can offer the best insults.I have posted this in defense of the above. I would rather that you did not respond to it and that we could instead move forward from here.
Hi RR,
You are welcome to present your own views.
But you know that bringing in the packaged doctrines such as the ones you often bring is not allowed.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2006,03:26) Hi RR,
You are welcome to present your own views.
But you know that bringing in the packaged doctrines such as the ones you often bring is not allowed.Quote Rules for the Form
By HEAVEN,
Feb 25 20061) No spamming or flooding the forums.
2) No abusing others.
3) No pushing doctrines that are not related to the topic. Pushing them in an appropriate topic is OK.Members can be removed for such conduct.
In addition to these rules, posts will not be removed or edited if requested by members. If you post in Heaven Net, it is here to stay. If you wish to retract something you have said earlier, then do so by explaining it in a new post.
Most of all, enjoy yourself, search, teach, and learn about the wonders of God.
When posting sites for others to read it is so that they can be discussed with members that have points to raise. Sometimes it is easier to just post a site that relates to the topic rather than quoting bits and pieces. It is also better to link the site because of copyright.
Many people on the web have offered great material that we can learn from. Sometimes I read an article and whilst I may not agree with much, sometimes they throw a gem in there that I polish and tuck away. It could simply be a different point of view of a subject, a perspective that I had not seen before.
I have seen you applaud people that post sites that you agree with, but then you state the above to me. Tend to grapple with how that can be fair.
I have posted the Forum Rules above and I don't believe that I have breached them.
Nuff said.
Hi RR,
I have enjoyed many of your own posts. We can learn from each other that way. I would prefer you to post your own views so we can debate with you one to one and grow. Searching through pages and pages of posts provided by others and pasted on the site does not comprise a dialogue with you and that is the purpose of the site.Hi,
So if Christ was born as a son of Mary he inherited our sinful state. I believe along with Ramblinrose that was the victory.That was the purpose of the descent from his divine state with the Father, to partake completely in our difficult condition. He left behind his divine nature and powers and insights to be like us in every away.
No advantages, no head start. He overcame all those sin problems and never sinned, and showed us the way.
Quote (david @ April 14 2006,06:12) Why do we die?
My thoughts:When Adam and Eve sinned they were driven from the garden and could not longer take from the Tree of Life.
None of us can take from the Tree of Life – so we all die. Revelation shows that we will one day eat again from the Tree of Life.
Whilst we did not commit the sin we all received the punishment because of them having sinned. We received the punishment – not the sin.
We are not born with sin, we choose to sin. Why keep blaming Adam for our own shortcomings? We all manage to sin real well by ourselves. It is easier to follow the ways of the world than to follow the ways of God.
Yahshua was born in all ways like us but choose to follow YHWH. He was obedient to God. Yahshua proved that you can follow the ways of God.
True RR,
Our short time on earth is a door to eternity. The earth and it's fruit is cursed. We must be born from above and escape the fate of the natural world.Yes the earth will also have to be purged as we are.
The fire judgement to come will accomplish this for the fulfillment of the seventh day (1000 years)
We have to come by water, blood and spirit (holy fire).
God does the earth the same way.
Water flooded it in Noah's day,
The blood of Jesus poured onto it at Calvary
and the next thing is Fire…
Just my 2 cents worth
Hi malcolm,
If Christ is the first fruits[1Cor 15.22] of mankind for God then he must be one of us. You do not offer first fruits of grapes if you are an apple farmer, or a heifer if you are a sheep farmer. First fruits are from the stock you grow. They are the first fruits offered, the beginning of the crop representative of that crop.
1Cor 15 39
“There is one flesh of men”.
Christ was a man.
Acts 2.22f
“…Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed throuhgh him in your midst, just as you know-this man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to the cross by the hands of godless men and put him to death”
It is not written that his flesh was different to ours, a separate creation not of dust.He is the last Adam [1Cor 15.45]. Adam is from the dust.
He too surely was from the dust or how can he be the Last Adam?As in Adam all die, so in the second Adam all live.
Adam also was a man like us, he could die.
Yet Adam was also unlike us in some ways, namely how he came to flesh.
Adam is called in Luke the son of God and he is a son of God.
So is Christ, so are we if we come the way of the new birth by the Spirit of God.
I have not said Christ was not a man. He has to be a man to be our kinsman redeemer.
He is the link back to man which was severed by sin in the garden.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2006,05:01) Hi,
So if Christ was born as a son of Mary he inherited our sinful state. I believe along with Ramblinrose that was the victory.That was the purpose of the descent from his divine state with the Father, to partake completely in our difficult condition. He left behind his divine nature and powers and insights to be like us in every away.
No advantages, no head start. He overcame all those sin problems and never sinned, and showed us the way.
I don't believe he left behind his divine nature, that was the soul.
Just look at what is said of the virtues of the inner man.
This is our true inner nature that was marred due to sin.
Rebirth by the spirit of God brings this inner man to life to reflect our true inner nature which is a son of God.
That's the way I see it…Hi Malcolm,
He left behind his own divine powers and abilities then? As soul he was always a vessel designed as we are to contain the Spirit of God? I can agree with that.Quote (malcolm ferris @ April 14 2006,23:55) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2006,05:01) Hi,
So if Christ was born as a son of Mary he inherited our sinful state. I believe along with Ramblinrose that was the victory.That was the purpose of the descent from his divine state with the Father, to partake completely in our difficult condition. He left behind his divine nature and powers and insights to be like us in every away.
No advantages, no head start. He overcame all those sin problems and never sinned, and showed us the way.
I don't believe he left behind his divine nature, that was the soul.
Just look at what is said of the virtues of the inner man.
This is our true inner nature that was marred due to sin.
Rebirth by the spirit of God brings this inner man to life to reflect our true inner nature which is a son of God.
That's the way I see it…
Hi Malcolm,
But we must be transformed by the renewing of our heart and mind. We must receive the mind of Christ.After we are reborn in to Christ [Gal 3.27], the easy part, we must allow Christ to be reborn into us[Gal 4.19], the hard part.
We must decrease and he must increase until we can say with Paul
“It is no longer I that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me”[Gal 2.20]
being sons of God led by the Spirit of God[Gal 5.16-25].The final nature of the inner man is CHRIST
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