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Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 09 2010,22:53) Quote (martian @ Aug. 09 2010,21:04) Paul says that all that is required to be saved is that we believe in God and that Christ is the messiah and that he physicaly rose from the dead. I believe that Trinitarians or not can do that in their hearts regardless of their idea of the Godhead.
Hi Martian and Dennison,I totally agree with you all.
God will determine from our hearts our desires for Him and His son, and see what relationship we had with them and others while we were here on this earth.
However, we discuss many things here on the forum and this is one question that bugs me.
Could this be Satan's ultimate coup to get our “souls”?
The Professor
Who say that satan will get our souls?Its either we end up in Gods wrath as will satan will one day suffer,
Or in Gods salvation.
To all,
It is God who determined who is saved and who is not. I can but strive to speak God word on how one can be saved on that day and the Trinitarian tenet is just one more obstacle on the path each of us must travel.
The rest of my answer is based on considering it was Paul who sat by while Steven was murdered and gave his approval and yet would later chose to follow Jesus. Was Paul on the path of salvation even as he approved of Steven's unjust punishment even though he had not yet turned from his wicked ways? For is it not true that despite Paul's embrace of a false doctrine at that time his path would lead him to take the road to Damascus where he would come to know the Anointed he persecuted beforehand. Is it not true that God judges us according to what we know and since Paul did not know Jesus prior to his encounter on the road to Damascus he would have been judged according to that fact. Some would say he was damned when he approved of Steven's death but did not God know what he had planned for him and thus would consider mitigating circumstance in his judgment?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2010,12:01)
Hi Shimmer,
Good insight. We do need to remove the log and then we need to help the brother remove the splinter. This definition of love is God's and it is a pretty awesome challenge:1 Cor 13:3-13
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part;
10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things.
12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.
13 But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
NASUI may be wrong, Shimmer, but it sounds like you have some wounds that need healing. Have you been offended by a brother or sister in Christ? Then you might lovingly go to them if you haven't already, they might not realize that they need to restore a wrong done.
Kathi
It's good now, Thank you, Lightenup.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 10 2010,05:40)
Who would be behind the teaching that “Jesus is God” IF “Jesus wasn't God”?Who taught that Eve, too, “Could be like God”? And what was the consequence?
Satan was able to kill our bodies, is he now trying for our spirits/soul?
Satan tried to get Jesus to claim to be God but Jesus declined. He said to worship God only. “IF” he was God he would've told Satan to worship him. And since Satan couldn't trick Jesus into claiming to be God, what is the next best thing? Getting others to make that claim for him.
Could you see the seriousness of this deception, IF our eternity depended on it?
And do you see why I “question” a person's Salvation? “I” want to make sure “I” give every effort to ensure another's Salvation. It's the same reason I witness for Jesus.
David, that is a good point, one to think about,
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 09 2010,12:16) There have already been many threads on the Trinity and this isn't going to be another. It has to do with the question of SALVATION.
When I witness to others I do so because I feel the desire to share God's love and free gift to others.
I am concerned that if a person doesn't believe in Jesus and they die without accepting Jesus as their Savior that they will be “lost” and eternally damned.
Here's the dilemma:
If a person who is a “Christian” and believes in the Trinity will that person be “saved”?
I believe in Jesus as the “son of God”….not as God, the Son and that is where the split comes. Trinitarians believe in Jesus as God.
What IF Jesus isn't God? THEN the Trinitarians have believed in a “false god” all the time. They would be breaking the first commandment and would've been following a “wrong” Jesus and teaching others to do so too.
Will believing in a “false god” bring about Salvation? Is this false god equivalent to the “false gods” of all the other different religions? As a false god does it make any difference that the people call this “god” Jesus?
Scripture says that whoever calls upon the name of Jesus will be saved. It doesn't qualifiy salvation upon believing in Jesus as God or son of God. So, does it matter if people break the First Commandment and place Jesus as God?
By me, not believing in him as God can't be faulted because I have done what the Bible has asked. I haven't put the additional moniker of God to Jesus….and haven't put him ahead of his Father, God.
What think thee? Is Salvation at risk?
Trinitarians–“IF” you were wrong about Jesus being God, do you think your wrong doing could cost you your Salvation?
The Professor
ProfessorThe problem is this; people believe, because ministers tell them so, that, unless you are saved now (and just what do they mean by being saved now)? you are lost for ever, and will burn in hell!
Well,.. just where in the Bible does it say that?
People don't even understand, what is “HELL”?
“HELL” is nothing more than a hole in the ground, that is where they lay the dead, it's a grave, nothing more.
Jesus said, the dead sleep, why? because there will be an awakening from that sleep, the resurrection.1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Act 24:15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
You see? both, “the just and the unjust”, so there is no condemnation now, just death.
If God were to judge us now, in all this confusion, then you could say, God is not just.Georg
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