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To everyone here…
I would just like to say that I truly apologize if I have offended
anyone here with my “voting” thread…I forget sometimes…that whats important to me socially…may not be important to everyone else…sometimes I get so caught up in what men should be doing socially that I lose focus on what we should be doing spiritually..to heal the wounds of imperfection
Racism is one of satan's masterful tools of division…and I need to realize that HE the one responsible for most of the problems we see…and that Christ death and resurrection WILL indeed bring and end to these injustices…impatience is one of my bad habits…my thoughts of “saving the world” and “justice NOW” are really evidence of a lack of faith on my part..My timetable and God's timetable…are not the same…
Mine is fleshly while his is spiritual, and I pray that he helps me align my thoughts more with his…“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one”
So again don't stop praying for me..I need you all as much as I need my JW bretheren…I view you all as “brothers in Christ” and would never want to damage that bond…
Hey Nick, awesome post (dude)!
DK,
Your colors shine through, as do other's who responded to you. Quite frankly, I was shocked to read some of the responses you received. And in some instances I was also ashamed….I have two adopted children from Korea. Rasicm and prejudices are real and they do present challenges. It's just that if you are not a minority you have the luxury of not being aware of them on a daily basis. Sure, you may have a black friend or two, but you cannot fully understand or appreciate the impact of racism in all it's forms unless you are among those targeted, or you are related to those that are.
I echo Nick – be of good cheer dude!
Love,
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2008,15:39) Hey Nick, awesome post (dude)! DK,
Your colors shine through, as do other's who responded to you. Quite frankly, I was shocked to read some of the responses you received. And in some instances I was also ashamed….I have two adopted children from Korea. Rasicm and prejudices are real and they do present challenges. It's just that if you are not a minority you have the luxury of not being aware of them on a daily basis. Sure, you may have a black friend or two, but you cannot fully understand or appreciate the impact of racism in all it's forms unless you are among those targeted, or you are related to those that are.
I echo Nick – be of good cheer dude!
Love,
Mandy
Hey Mandy…You are making me
Although i agree and have a lot to say….I will digress for the sake of unity
While I have disagreed with some of your assumptions as well as your conclusions I feel they were done sincerely and without malice, so no apology is needed. I hope likewise you view my responses to you were based on my views and not an attack on your character or experience. I am welcome here despite my spiritual unorthodoxy, so you should be even more so since your spiritual beliefs are more in line with the main stream here then my own. Disagreements are common here, just check the Trinitarian threads, or anything with Stuart our resident athiest. If they were not here it would be too boring to bother posting here.
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 06 2008,15:39) Rasicm and prejudices are real and they do present challenges. It's just that if you are not a minority you have the luxury of not being aware of them on a daily basis. Sure, you may have a black friend or two, but you cannot fully understand or appreciate the impact of racism in all it's forms unless you are among those targeted, or you are related to those that are.
Mandy,While I would agree that racism and prejudice are all too real and I would agree with dk's earlier post that such things are evil's way to distract man from greater truth. I find the claim of since I am not a minority I can't understand unproductive (though I know you meant it in a helpful way). Let me approach it in two ways, first as I stated before, no one can completely understand anyone else be it sex, origin, disability, appearance or whatever so do we stop trying on one hand or on the other side do we say I can not make any judgements at all because I can't fully appreciate their lives. Since any of us can say that about anything it promotes unproductive guilt and/or victimhood, “you can't understand” becomes a defeating justifiction. I think humans can be remarkably empathetic if we are allowed.
The other thing we must realize is that we are all minorites and majorities that shift with the boudaries of definition. Being either does not make you better or worse. Just because you are oppressed in one facet of life does not make you noble or prevent you from being an oppressor in another factor.
Take the hot button issue of race; minority status shifts constantly. For instance based on world pops I am a minority, in my country I am a majority, In the city I work I am a minority, in my neighborhood there is no majority, in my intimate social circle I am the only one of my so called race, in my family my wife and I are different and our children multiracial, so what does being a minority really mean? Also since I think reincarnation is a possible method of how God will dispense with most of our souls; we'll probably be reborn into the race we have the most problem understanding and we'll get our experience and comprehension that way. That would be real Karma, all of the true racists would be reborn into the group they hated. Oh well that's my thoughts for the day.
On another note without getting too personal how old are the kids? I have three myself 1, 4 and 17.Quote (Cato @ June 07 2008,02:21) Also since I think reincarnation is a possible method of how God will dispense with most of our souls; we'll probably be reborn into the race we have the most problem understanding and we'll get our experience and comprehension that way. That would be real Karma, all of the true racists would be reborn into the group they hated. Oh well that's my thoughts for the day.
On another note without getting too personal how old are the kids? I have three myself 1, 4 and 17.
Hi Cato,
Do you believe reincarnation and Karma as we believe in India I mean in our religion Hinduism?Quote (dirtyknections @ June 06 2008,15:03) To everyone here… I would just like to say that I truly apologize if I have offended
anyone here with my “voting” thread…I forget sometimes…that whats important to me socially…may not be important to everyone else…sometimes I get so caught up in what men should be doing socially that I lose focus on what we should be doing spiritually..to heal the wounds of imperfection
Racism is one of satan's masterful tools of division…and I need to realize that HE the one responsible for most of the problems we see…and that Christ death and resurrection WILL indeed bring and end to these injustices…impatience is one of my bad habits…my thoughts of “saving the world” and “justice NOW” are really evidence of a lack of faith on my part..My timetable and God's timetable…are not the same…
Mine is fleshly while his is spiritual, and I pray that he helps me align my thoughts more with his…“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one”
So again don't stop praying for me..I need you all as much as I need my JW bretheren…I view you all as “brothers in Christ” and would never want to damage that bond…
Why are you apologizing? It does show us that you are a humble man and for that we should be thankful for. As I said I can understand your frustration as a black male in this country. But you need to get yourself a good education and get out of the minority neighborhood that you are living in right now. Don't let Satan get to you. Just also remember that time is short, Jesus will come soon and set all things straight. I wish you all the best and may God be with you always.
Peace and Love IreneGood morning Cato,
Quote I find the claim of since I am not a minority I can't understand unproductive (though I know you meant it in a helpful way).
It may be unproductive, but as I said, it is your luxury to not have to worry about these things on a daily basis. Most folks who are not a minority do not like this and go about trying to prove those who suffer from racism wrong (even though they mean it in a helpful way). But it doesn't come close to the very real pain and rejection those feel who bare different colors of skin, different shape of eyes, and ultimately very different cultures. That is why I like to use the term “luxury” when I am speaking to those who are not a minority – it is our luxury to not wake-up every morning and realize that the odds are somewhat against us. Some of the facts that DK presented are true. We don't like to admit that they are. We like to think that everyone has the same opportunities.We like to believe that if you have the right attitude and get the same education, that our society has evolved enough to put everyone on the same playing filed. It's just not true. But it is our luxury to believe that it is. Why? Because for US it is true. For my children, and perhaps for DK and other's of color – the truth is that the playing field will probably never be the same for whites as it is for various colors of people. Sure, there are zillion of success stories but there are more failures for every success as DK tried to point out. The stats are out there if you care to look.
Are these merely my opinions? No. I have worked extensively with our adoption agency through the years and have headed many talks and groups around the state regarding racism. Like DK, I could go on and on, but I realize who I am preaching to. To some degree, it is no use. No offense, and I hope none is taken, but when people rationalize in their own heads that everyone has the same rights regardless (and these are usually white folks, I might add), there is little anyone can do to show them another view. They will always come up with examples of some black guy they know, or some Army buddie, or some such example to prove that what I am saying (and the experts say) are wrong. Perhaps in their small world of experience the experts are wrong, but not for the majority out there who are in the minority (no pun intended).
This is a hot button for me as well. I get angry with those who show no compassion or empathy towards minorities. Instead they minimalize their challenges and compare them to situations that are really no comparision at all. My favorite comparision to date is comparing my children who are Korean, and their challenges, to someone who is in a wheelchair. Don't even get me started. It just shows ignorance on the side of someone who probably won't even attemp to study and understand racism. Yet they believe in their own minds that they have set the record straight. It doesn't work that way. It may work for them, in their minds, and that would be their luxury.
Quote The other thing we must realize is that we are all minorites and majorities that shift with the boudaries of definition.
Ha, perhaps. But we are talking about color. Black Americans. DK. I have added my Korean children to the mix with this post. What you are saying here is exactly what I am talking about. It is your luxury to compare black minorities with those of other minority definitions at any given time. For instance, there was a time in the Victorian era when women decided not to wear corsets. They were in the minority. They were ostracized from society. But this has little comparision value to someone who cannot take off their color of skin at will. Race does not shift with boundaries of definition – not in the US of A it doesn't. But perhaps I am missing something and please feel free to enlighten me.Quote Just because you are oppressed in one facet of life does not make you noble or prevent you from being an oppressor in another factor.
This statement makes me immediately angry. I guess it's because most whites believe that blacks find their plot of predjudice something to be proud of. Like something they put on a shelf and show off, or something that makes them a martyr for their injustice. It's siimply not true. Just because a minority addresses their challenges (even with justified anger, imo) doesn't mean they are trying to be noble in any sense of the word.Quote Take the hot button issue of race; minority status shifts constantly.
Blacks have always been the minority in America, that has never shifted. This statement, whether you realize it or not, degrades the issue for Blacks. True, if you are a White person in Oakland, CA, for instance, you will be the minority, but you resume your status of a majority the minute you leave that town. That is not a good enough “status shift” to justify oversimplifying the problem faced by many colored minorities, imo.Quote the city I work I am a minority,
Case in point – the minute you leave the city where you work, you are undoubtedly back in the majority. The minority races that work alongside of you do not have this luxury when they leave work. They are Black (or whatever) no matter what city they are in. So the challenges you face are not the same. You may have a peek into their world, but you do not live in their world.Quote Oh well that's my thoughts for the day.
As you know Cato, I always appreciate your thoughts. I still have much respect for you. I hope that you can hear my thoughts today with equal appreciation. This is a sensitive subject for me, obviously. Keep in mind that I comfort my minority children when they are teased, kept out of games because of their “squinty” eyes. Luckily both of my children are fairly popluar, but I am aware of those who are not as liked and isolated because of their color. Where do these children learn these behaviors? Makes one wonder…..Thanks for listening to my rant,
MandyQuote (seek and you will find @ June 07 2008,04:49) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 06 2008,15:03) To everyone here… I would just like to say that I truly apologize if I have offended
anyone here with my “voting” thread…I forget sometimes…that whats important to me socially…may not be important to everyone else…sometimes I get so caught up in what men should be doing socially that I lose focus on what we should be doing spiritually..to heal the wounds of imperfection
Racism is one of satan's masterful tools of division…and I need to realize that HE the one responsible for most of the problems we see…and that Christ death and resurrection WILL indeed bring and end to these injustices…impatience is one of my bad habits…my thoughts of “saving the world” and “justice NOW” are really evidence of a lack of faith on my part..My timetable and God's timetable…are not the same…
Mine is fleshly while his is spiritual, and I pray that he helps me align my thoughts more with his…“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one”
So again don't stop praying for me..I need you all as much as I need my JW bretheren…I view you all as “brothers in Christ” and would never want to damage that bond…
Why are you apologizing? It does show us that you are a humble man and for that we should be thankful for. As I said I can understand your frustration as a black male in this country. But you need to get yourself a good education and get out of the minority neighborhood that you are living in right now. Don't let Satan get to you. Just also remember that time is short, Jesus will come soon and set all things straight. I wish you all the best and may God be with you always.
Peace and Love Irene
Already done…I have Dual Degrees in Entertainment Business and Recording Arts Music Theory…
I'm also a certified Reading Teacher for greades 6-12 and also Alt School settings..
I'm also half way thru my state reading endorsement…
I currently Operate and manage my own Business called..INK PROFESSIONALS…We offer full service printing and design/ along with printer supplies..basically…banners, business cards, brochures, wedding invitations, etc… call me at 904-371-5166 between the hours of 9-5 est..and I will answer the phone personally…Me and the wife Just purchased our first home together a couple years ago…she is an underwriter for Bank of America..
Here is a pic of my babies…that is my father holding my son..
<img src="
” border=”0″>
So trust…me I refuse to be a statistic…or let my children be one…
lets try again
http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/7536/mybabiesfb8.th.png" target="_blank">http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?….MG]http
ok…last try…
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b441944537.png" target="_blank">http://www.freeimagehosting.net/]
h….mg]http
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2008,05:18) Good morning Cato, Quote I find the claim of since I am not a minority I can't understand unproductive (though I know you meant it in a helpful way).
It may be unproductive, but as I said, it is your luxury to not have to worry about these things on a daily basis. Most folks who are not a minority do not like this and go about trying to prove those who suffer from racism wrong (even though they mean it in a helpful way). But it doesn't come close to the very real pain and rejection those feel who bare different colors of skin, different shape of eyes, and ultimately very different cultures. That is why I like to use the term “luxury” when I am speaking to those who are not a minority – it is our luxury to not wake-up every morning and realize that the odds are somewhat against us. Some of the facts that DK presented are true. We don't like to admit that they are. We like to think that everyone has the same opportunities.We like to believe that if you have the right attitude and get the same education, that our society has evolved enough to put everyone on the same playing filed. It's just not true. But it is our luxury to believe that it is. Why? Because for US it is true. For my children, and perhaps for DK and other's of color – the truth is that the playing field will probably never be the same for whites as it is for various colors of people. Sure, there are zillion of success stories but there are more failures for every success as DK tried to point out. The stats are out there if you care to look.
Are these merely my opinions? No. I have worked extensively with our adoption agency through the years and have headed many talks and groups around the state regarding racism. Like DK, I could go on and on, but I realize who I am preaching to. To some degree, it is no use. No offense, and I hope none is taken, but when people rationalize in their own heads that everyone has the same rights regardless (and these are usually white folks, I might add), there is little anyone can do to show them another view. They will always come up with examples of some black guy they know, or some Army buddie, or some such example to prove that what I am saying (and the experts say) are wrong. Perhaps in their small world of experience the experts are wrong, but not for the majority out there who are in the minority (no pun intended).
This is a hot button for me as well. I get angry with those who show no compassion or empathy towards minorities. Instead they minimalize their challenges and compare them to situations that are really no comparision at all. My favorite comparision to date is comparing my children who are Korean, and their challenges, to someone who is in a wheelchair. Don't even get me started. It just shows ignorance on the side of someone who probably won't even attemp to study and understand racism. Yet they believe in their own minds that they have set the record straight. It doesn't work that way. It may work for them, in their minds, and that would be their luxury.
Quote The other thing we must realize is that we are all minorites and majorities that shift with the boudaries of definition.
Ha, perhaps. But we are talking about color. Black Americans. DK. I have added my Korean children to the mix with this post. What you are saying here is exactly what I am talking about. It is your luxury to compare black minorities with those of other minority definitions at any given time. For instance, there was a time in the Victorian era when women decided not to wear corsets. They were in the minority. They were ostracized from society. But this has little comparision value to someone who cannot take off their color of skin at will. Race does not shift with boundaries of definition – not in the US of A it doesn't. But perhaps I am missing something and please feel free to enlighten me.Quote Just because you are oppressed in one facet of life does not make you noble or prevent you from being an oppressor in another factor.
This statement makes me immediately angry. I guess it's because most whites believe that blacks find their plot of predjudice something to be proud of. Like something they put on a shelf and show off, or something that makes them a martyr for their injustice. It's siimply not true. Just because a minority addresses their challenges (even with justified anger, imo) doesn't mean they are trying to be noble in any sense of the word.Quote Take the hot button issue of race; minority status shifts constantly.
Blacks have always been the minority in America, that has never shifted. This statement, whether you realize it or not, degrades the issue for Blacks. True, if you are a White person in Oakland, CA, for instance, you will be the minority, but you resume your status of a majority the minute you leave that town. That is not a good enough “status shift” to justify oversimplifying the problem faced by many colored minorities, imo.Quote the city I work I am a minority,
Case in point – the minute you leave the city where you work, you are undoubtedly back in the majority. The minority races that work alongside of you do not have this luxury when they leave work. They are Black (or whatever) no matter what city they are in. So the challenges you face are not the same. You may have a peek into their world, but you do not live in their world.Quote Oh well that's my thoughts for the day.
As you know Cato, I always appreciate your thoughts. I still have much respect for you. I hope that you can hear my thoughts today with equal appreciation. This is a sensitive subject for me, obviously. Keep in mind that I comfort my minority children when they are teased, kept out of games because of their “squinty” eyes. Luckily both of my children are fairly popluar, but I am aware of those who are not as liked and isolated because of their color. Where do these children learn these behaviors? Makes one wonder…..Thanks for listening to my rant,
Mandy
Finally someone who is willing to listen!!!!!!!!!But I still digress
Mandy, Mandy, Mandy…I have a even greater respect for you now…not because you agree..I can tell you don't agree with everthing I said…but because you UNDERSTAND…that these are not just imaginary scenes in some twisted play…but reality for a huge part of the country…
Be blessed as I digress…If more people like you stood up…If more people like you stood up..If more people like you stood..
Thats all thats running thru my mind..over and over…YOU are truly the minority…YOU are the Minority group whos voices are not being listened to…Mandy..this makes my day..
Again not because you share some of my thoughts…but because you UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT I SAID DOES INDEED EXIST…
ALSO…seek and find….I pray for you understand what you went thru being a German in america..
Quote (gollamudi @ June 07 2008,04:34) Hi Cato,
Do you believe reincarnation and Karma as we believe in India I mean in our religion Hinduism?
Not in the same way as the Hindu's do, but I think it may well be a way, and a good one at that of dispensing souls upon death. I think the purpose of life is to learn and evolve and reincarnation and karma seem to be better suited to that end then what is commonly preached in Christianity. I believe God will not accept less then a 100% success rating in the advancement of human souls so I would imagine this may take many lives to work out whatever lessons our individual souls need to progress. Do I know this, of course not it just seems to make more sense then the one life pass or fail test on eternity that mainstream Christianity espouses. That's all I'll say here for this is off-topic for this thread.Quote (dirtyknections @ June 07 2008,05:29) Quote (seek and you will find @ June 07 2008,04:49) Quote (dirtyknections @ June 06 2008,15:03) To everyone here… I would just like to say that I truly apologize if I have offended
anyone here with my “voting” thread…I forget sometimes…that whats important to me socially…may not be important to everyone else…sometimes I get so caught up in what men should be doing socially that I lose focus on what we should be doing spiritually..to heal the wounds of imperfection
Racism is one of satan's masterful tools of division…and I need to realize that HE the one responsible for most of the problems we see…and that Christ death and resurrection WILL indeed bring and end to these injustices…impatience is one of my bad habits…my thoughts of “saving the world” and “justice NOW” are really evidence of a lack of faith on my part..My timetable and God's timetable…are not the same…
Mine is fleshly while his is spiritual, and I pray that he helps me align my thoughts more with his…“The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one”
So again don't stop praying for me..I need you all as much as I need my JW bretheren…I view you all as “brothers in Christ” and would never want to damage that bond…
Why are you apologizing? It does show us that you are a humble man and for that we should be thankful for. As I said I can understand your frustration as a black male in this country. But you need to get yourself a good education and get out of the minority neighborhood that you are living in right now. Don't let Satan get to you. Just also remember that time is short, Jesus will come soon and set all things straight. I wish you all the best and may God be with you always.
Peace and Love Irene
Already done…I have Dual Degrees in Entertainment Business and Recording Arts Music Theory…
I'm also a certified Reading Teacher for greades 6-12 and also Alt School settings..
I'm also half way thru my state reading endorsement…
I currently Operate and manage my own Business called..INK PROFESSIONALS…We offer full service printing and design/ along with printer supplies..basically…banners, business cards, brochures, wedding invitations, etc… call me at 904-371-5166 between the hours of 9-5 est..and I will answer the phone personally…Me and the wife Just purchased our first home together a couple years ago…she is an underwriter for Bank of America..
Here is a pic of my babies…that is my father holding my son..
<img src="
” border=”0″>
So trust…me I refuse to be a statistic…or let my children be one…
I am very happy to hear that, so why do you then still feel that racism is in your life. I truly believe that you can be anything if you set your mind to it. We were in Business too in spite of our lack in education. I went to night School and took all kinds of Business courses. My Husband was and is a retired Baker by trade. So we had a Pastry Shop and very successful. I also believe that some blacks use there race and are lazy. For those I am not sorry. For those that are like you, I take my Hat off. But if you look in the white race there are white trash too. All they want to do is smoke dope. I wish I had the answers to our Social Problems here in America, but for that we have to wait til Jesus returns. Yes, waiting on the Lord is hard to do. But one day all will be done. I too can't wait for that day. As Christians I think we see all what is wrong and want to fix it, but we can't. So my Friend have patience, til the day when we meet. And one more thought, maybe God wants to use you to straighten out the ills of Society since you know what they are. We don't know why we have to go through what we do, just put your trust in God and all will work out for all of us.
Peace and Love Mrs.Hi DK:
You haven't offended me in anyway, therefore, no apology is needed. However, I would like to say that we should try to remain focused on what it means to be a Christian rather than focusing on the evils that are in the world. Only God can change the heart of the wicked, and so, one day at a time and one heart at a time.
God Bless
Quote (Cato @ June 07 2008,06:09) Quote (gollamudi @ June 07 2008,04:34) Hi Cato,
Do you believe reincarnation and Karma as we believe in India I mean in our religion Hinduism?
Not in the same way as the Hindu's do, but I think it may well be a way, and a good one at that of dispensing souls upon death. I think the purpose of life is to learn and evolve and reincarnation and karma seem to be better suited to that end then what is commonly preached in Christianity. I believe God will not accept less then a 100% success rating in the advancement of human souls so I would imagine this may take many lives to work out whatever lessons our individual souls need to progress. Do I know this, of course not it just seems to make more sense then the one life pass or fail test on eternity that mainstream Christianity espouses. That's all I'll say here for this is off-topic for this thread.
Hi Cato,
Thanks for sharing your views, here in India we also believe such things but not by Chrstianity. I want to know what are your beliefs on Chrstianity? Sorry to bother you.
AdamQuote (942767 @ June 07 2008,09:54) Hi DK: You haven't offended me in anyway, therefore, no apology is needed. However, I would like to say that we should try to remain focused on what it means to be a Christian rather than focusing on the evils that are in the world. Only God can change the heart of the wicked, and so, one day at a time and one heart at a time.
God Bless
I agree…therefore I digress…Blessings
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