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Greetings heaven net Friends,
I have claimed to be Apollinarian in my Christology. For an overview of Apollinarius just see the information that Seeking posted yesterday on the Trinity 2 thread. Or type in “Apollinarius of Laodecia” on your url and peruse the many selections you can read.
Apollanarius's basic tenet was that Christ had only one nature which was divine. But orthodox Trinitarianism says that Christ had two natures, divine and human. The Catholic Church denounced Apollinarius as a “heretic” because it thought that his “one divine nature” teaching denied that Christ was truly man.
Let's allow the Scriptures decide. It says this:
Quote On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side.” Now when they had left the multitude, they took Him along in the boat as He was. And other little boats were also with Him. And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling. But He was in the stern, sleeping on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do you not worry that we are perishing.” Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and spoke to the sea, “Peace be still!” And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. But He said to them, Why do you worry? How is it that you have no faith?” And they worried exceedingly, and said to one another, “Who can this be, that even the wind and the sea obey Him!” (Mark 4:35-41) This narrative shows that it is human nature to worry and that Jesus never worried. If Jesus never worried then He did not have a human nature. ALL THOSE WITH A HUMAN NATURE MUST WORRY.
Yet Apollinarius was condemned for his supposed denial that Jesus was a real man.
thinker
thethinker,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote This narrative shows that it is human nature to worry and that Jesus never worried. If Jesus never worried then He did not have a human nature. ALL THOSE WITH A HUMAN NATURE MUST WORRY. Can we make this same application of grief and sorrow?
If not, why not?Mat 26:38 Then he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, ] even to death; remain here, and watch with me.”
] Mar 3:5 And he looked around at them with anger,
grieved at their hardness of heart , and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.Staying with the logic Thinker submitted, it is human nature to grieve and be sorrowful. Jesus grieved and was sorrowful. Since he grieved and was sorrowful, Jesus has a human nature.
Seeking
Quote (SEEKING @ Mar. 17 2009,05:42) Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 16 2009,08:21) Quote This narrative shows that it is human nature to worry and that Jesus never worried. If Jesus never worried then He did not have a human nature. ALL THOSE WITH A HUMAN NATURE MUST WORRY. Can we make this same application of grief and sorrow?
If not, why not?Mat 26:38 Then he said to them, “My soul is very sorrowful, ] even to death; remain here, and watch with me.”
] Mar 3:5 And he looked around at them with anger,
grieved at their hardness of heart , and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was restored.Staying with the logic Thinker submitted, it is human nature to grieve and be sorrowful. Jesus grieved and was sorrowful. Since he grieved and was sorrowful, Jesus has a human nature.
Seeking
Seeking,YHWH was sorrowful and grieved that He had made man upon the earth
Quote And YHWH was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. (Genesis 6:6) It says that God was “sorry and grieved in His heart.” Therefore, sorrow and grief are part of the divine nature.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 17 2009,03:21) Greetings heaven net Friends, I have claimed to be Apollinarian in my Christology. For an overview of Apollinarius just see the information that Seeking posted yesterday on the Trinity 2 thread. Or type in “Apollinarius of Laodecia” on your url and peruse the many selections you can read.
Apollanarius's basic tenet was that Christ had only one nature which was divine. But orthodox Trinitarianism says that Christ had two natures, divine and human. The Catholic Church denounced him as a “heretic” because it thought that Apollinarius's “one divine nature” teaching denied that Christ was truly man.
Let's allow the Scriptures decide. It says this:
Quote On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side.” Now when they had left the multitude, they took Him along in the boat as He was. And other little boats were also with Him. And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling. But He was in the stern, sleeping on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do you not worry that we are perishing.” Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and spoke to the sea, “Peace be still!” And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. But He said to them, Why do you worry? How is it that you have no faith?” And they worried exceedingly, and said to one another, “Who can this be, that even the wind and the sea obey Him!” (Mark 4:35-41) This narrative shows that it is human nature to worry and that Jesus never worried. If Jesus never worried then He did not have a human nature. ALL THOSE WITH A HUMAN NATURE MUST WORRY.
Yet Apollinarius was condemned for his supposed denial that Jesus was a real man.
thinker
Hi thethinker:Is it a witten law that all those with a human nature must worry?
942767 wrote:
Quote Is it a written law that all those with a human nature must worry? It is a natural law that all those with a human nature must worry. Jesus never worried. Therefore, He did not have a human “nature.”
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 16 2009,08:21) Quote On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side.” Now when they had left the multitude, they took Him along in the boat as He was. And other little boats were also with Him. And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling. But He was in the stern, sleeping on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do you not worry that we are perishing.” Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and spoke to the sea, “Peace be still!” And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. But He said to them, Why do you worry? How is it that you have no faith?” And they worried exceedingly, and said to one another, “Who can this be, that even the wind and the sea obey Him!” (Mark 4:35-41) What version do you use that translates “worry” in verse
38 where the versions I read use “care”? In verrse 41 you again insert “worried” where the versions I read say “feared.”Seeking
Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 17 2009,11:58) 942767 wrote: Quote Is it a written law that all those with a human nature must worry? It is a natural law that all those with a human nature must worry. Jesus never worried. Therefore, He did not have a human “nature.”
thinker
Hi thethinker:Jesus trusted in God, and therefore, he did not worry. And we also, as God's children should trust in God, and not worry. I don't worry because I trust in God's promises.
That men who do not know God worry that much is true, but I don't know of any law which says that anyone with a human nature “must worry”. These worry because of the uncertainties of their lives.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (thethinker @ Mar. 17 2009,03:21) Greetings heaven net Friends, I have claimed to be Apollinarian in my Christology. For an overview of Apollinarius just see the information that Seeking posted yesterday on the Trinity 2 thread. Or type in “Apollinarius of Laodecia” on your url and peruse the many selections you can read.
Apollanarius's basic tenet was that Christ had only one nature which was divine. But orthodox Trinitarianism says that Christ had two natures, divine and human. The Catholic Church denounced Apollinarius as a “heretic” because it thought that his “one divine nature” teaching denied that Christ was truly man.
Let's allow the Scriptures decide. It says this:
Quote On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side.” Now when they had left the multitude, they took Him along in the boat as He was. And other little boats were also with Him. And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling. But He was in the stern, sleeping on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do you not worry that we are perishing.” Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and spoke to the sea, “Peace be still!” And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. But He said to them, Why do you worry? How is it that you have no faith?” And they worried exceedingly, and said to one another, “Who can this be, that even the wind and the sea obey Him!” (Mark 4:35-41) This narrative shows that it is human nature to worry and that Jesus never worried. If Jesus never worried then He did not have a human nature. ALL THOSE WITH A HUMAN NATURE MUST WORRY.
Yet Apollinarius was condemned for his supposed denial that Jesus was a real man.
thinker
Humans worry because their nature is in a fallen state. Jesus came in the weakness of flesh, but he was without sin and he had faith.It is written that Jesus existed in the form of God (not as God) and that he emptied himself and found himself as a man. He then returned to the glory that he had with the Father.
It is of the Antichrist Spirit to deny that Jesus came in the flesh.
I should add that flesh is the nature of man. If Jesus didn't come as one of us, then perhaps his death wouldn't affect us either. After all, his sacrifice hasn't been extended to angels.
Seeking said:
Quote What version do you use that translates “worry” in verse
38 where the versions I read use “care”? In verrse 41 you again insert “worried” where the versions I read say “feared.”Seeking,
You're correct that it says they “feared” which of course we know has a strong element of worry to it. I fail to see how your parsing words will disprove me. I think I know where you're going to go with this and I am ready. Anyway, Jesus never feared, therefore, He did not have a human nature.You did not reply to my point that sorrow and grief was in the heart of YHWH,
Quote And YHWH was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. (Genesis 6:6) When Jesus sorrowed and grieved He was acting in His divine nature. But you think that sorrow and grief is part of the human nature. We must discuss this because it is crucial to my thought. Both “orthodox” Trinitarianism and non-Trinitarianism attribute emotions to the human nature. But this is not correct. It is negative emotions that belong to human nature.
Positive emotions are divine and were communicated to us when God made us in His image. Sorrow and grief are positive emotions and therefore divine. And to the extent we display positive emotions is the extent that we are God like. These emotions become “human” when they lack trust and hope. Now what do you say about Genesis 6:6? Did Jesus display the divine nature when He sorrowed and grieved? Or will you continue with your belief that His sorrow and grief proved He had a human nature?
thinker
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 17 2009,20:09) I should add that flesh is the nature of man. If Jesus didn't come as one of us, then perhaps his death wouldn't affect us either. After all, his sacrifice hasn't been extended to angels.
t8,
Flesh is the nature we share with the animals. Flesh is our animal nature. The mind of Christ was Divine alone.thinker
942767 said:
Quote esus trusted in God, and therefore, he did not worry. And we also, as God's children should trust in God, and not worry. I don't worry because I trust in God's promises. That men who do not know God worry that much is true, but I don't know of any law which says that anyone with a human nature “must worry”. These worry because of the uncertainties of their lives.
Marty,
All men are prone to worry and fear. And all men at some point worry or fear. This is human nature and Jesus never worried or feared. Therefore. He did not have a human nature. Physhologically He was Divine alone.What Scripture can you offer that proves your assertion that Jesus “trusted” God.
thinker
t8 said:
Quote Humans worry because their nature is in a fallen state. Jesus came in the weakness of flesh, but he was without sin and he had faith. Jesus had no human weakness.
Quote And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the regulation as to his ancesrty but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life (Heb. 7:15-16) Did you catch this!? Jesus' appointment as high priest was on the basis of the power of His indestructible life!
Long live Apollinarius!!
again,
Quote For the law appoints men as high priests who have weakness. But the oath, which came after the law appointed the Son. (Heb. 7:28) This clearly infers that Jesus has no weakness because He was NOT appointed by the law but by oath. Jesus was incapable of death because He had no sin!! It wasn't until OUR sins were laid upon Him that He was able to die!
Therefore, Jesus had only one Divine nature.
Where does the Bible say that Jesus had faith in God?
thinker
Hi tt,
Do you also now partake of the divine nature?
2 Peter 1:4
through which to us the most great and precious promises have been given, that through these ye may become partakers of a divine nature, having escaped from the corruption in the world in desires.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2009,05:45) Hi tt,
Do you also now partake of the divine nature?
2 Peter 1:4
through which to us the most great and precious promises have been given, that through these ye may become partakers of a divine nature, having escaped from the corruption in the world in desires.
Yes I am a partaker of the divine nature because I was created in the image of the Gods. But I also have a human nature which Jesus did not have.thinker
Hi TT,
So as a man you are a GOD?Then how is it scripture says you MAY BECOME SHARERS in the divine nature??
2 Peter 1:4
through which to us the most great and precious promises have been given, that through these ye may become partakers of a divine nature, having escaped from the corruption in the world in desires.
The divine nature is of the anointing of the divine Spirit.Scripture says Jesus was a man but you beg to differ?
Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2009,06:04) Hi TT,
So as a man you are a GOD?Then how is it scripture says you MAY BECOME SHARERS in the divine nature??
2 Peter 1:4
through which to us the most great and precious promises have been given, that through these ye may become partakers of a divine nature, having escaped from the corruption in the world in desires.
The divine nature is of the anointing of the divine Spirit.Scripture says Jesus was a man but you beg to differ?
Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Nick,
Show where Jesus had a human nature like ours. He had the power of an “indestructible life” (Heb. 7). This is not true of all other men. No mere man has such power.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2009,06:05) Hi tt,
Is Jesus not SON OF MAN?
He is the Son of Man that came down from heaven (John 3:13). He was NOT the physical Son of Man for He was NOT conceived by a man's sperm. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit who is not a man. Therefore, He could not have had a human nature.Chew on that one for a while.
thinker
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