AntiChrist is here

[NickHassan]

Hi mandy,
If you cannot accept him then what is the use of feeding you with his truths?
That was the litmus test for the presence of the Spirit of God in Peter.

[Mandy]

At last you make no sense at all, Nick.

I'm sorry, are you trying to help me? Or are you trying to make yourself appear superior and all-knowing?

You've failed to answer the one and only question I've begged you to answer. Instead you want to banter. I do not want to play anymore. I am searching out God and listening to brother's and sister's who sincerely want to help and point out scriptural truths. I'm not sure what your agenda is, but it is obvious that you cannot point in me in the right direction. Perhaps the guide post needs to look in the mirror to find out where to go next?

Thanks anyway, Nick.

[seek and you will find]

Mandy! Is there anything I can help you with? If you tell me what exactley it is, I will ask my Husband to help us. He really has a good understanding of the scriptures. I know you said that the Old Testsament does not line up with the New. You need to give me which scriptures?
Peace and Love Irene

[Mandy]

Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 28 2008,17:39)

Mandy!  Is there anything I can help you with? If you tell me what exactley it is, I will ask my Husband to help us. He really has a good understanding of the scriptures. I know you said that the Old Testsament does not line up with the New. You need to give me which scriptures? Peace and Love Irene

Yes, sister you can help me (and your dear husband too). I am wondering about the idea of the second coming of the Messiah……where is it written in the OT?

Thanks,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi Mandy,
If you make sure you have followed in the steps of Jesus then you will have received the Spirit of God and will be able to join with Peter. But if you cannot listen to the one who is truth then you will also not listen to us.

[Mandy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2008,17:41)

But if you cannot listen to the one who is truth then you will also not listen to us.

Not true.

Besides, you have given me nothing to listen to anyway.

I have received more heartfelt responses from stranger's than I have from you. You evade questions that you cannot answer and then accuse me of not being open to the truth.

You really are something. Your witness is out there for everyone to see.

[seek and you will find]

Mandy!  My Husband is sleeping right now, but I will ask Him tomorrow, of hamd i have no idea were it is. Will put the answer here. O.K. Love Irene
P.S. I M having problems seing at the present and I cant look anything up in the Strongs Concordiance. Need new Glasses, since I has Caterac Surgery.

[Mandy]

Thanks, Irene.

I guess I'm asking a question that I really already know the answer to. For nowhere is it written of the promised Messiah that he would come once and accomplish his mission partially, and then come “again” to accomplish the rest. It simply is not written anywhere in the prophesies.

The underlying begging of the question is, why then do we believe that Jesus is the Messiah when he did not accomplish all that the promised Messiah was supposed to? Christianity has seem to of invented this “second coming” to make up for the fact that Jesus didn't cause the lion to lay down with the lamb, for instance. Even John the Baptist doubted Jesus was the One when he didn't see the proper evidence.

Nick makes it sound like it's complete and utter blasphemy to question if Jesus is indeed the promised Messiah – but I'm not the only one who has done this throught time.

Anyway, your husband is a spirit filled man of God, let's see what his ideas are about this? Just having faith that Jesus is the Messiah isn't enough, in my opinion, we need to test all things – prove all things. If this second coming cannot stand-up against the testing of it, should we continue in our blind faith of it?
Love,
Mandy

[NickHassan]

Hi Mandy,
No point in blowing your stack at me.

Read again. You need the Spirit. Then we can dialogue.

[Stu]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2008,18:19)

Hi Mandy, No point in blowing your stack at me. Read again. You need the Spirit. Then we can dialogue.

So Nick you would be unsure whether the second coming is scriptural, then? Do you have no opinion, or are you saying it will definitely happen because you know, due to your 'having the spirit', while others don't.

Stuart

[Mandy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2008,18:19)

Read again. You need the Spirit. Then we can dialogue.

Spare me, Nick.

Your posts are becoming more and more laughable, truly!

Are you who “doesn't know much” now capable of discerning whether or not I posses the “Spirit”?

I know it may be hard for you to believe, but God has extended his spirit to me as well as to you…..can we talk now?

Ha!

Your not talking, Nick. Your bantering and you know it. I'm not blowing my stack at you, I'm calling a spade a spade.

[Mandy]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2008,18:23)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2008,18:19) Hi Mandy, No point in blowing your stack at me. Read again. You need the Spirit. Then we can dialogue. So Nick you would be unsure whether the second coming is scriptural, then?  Do you have no opinion, or are you saying it will definitely happen because you know, due to your 'having the spirit', while others don't. Stuart

If he admits that the second coming of the promised Messiah is not scriptural, he will then have to look at why he believes something that is not written.

I believe this is too much to ask a former Catholic. Fear has laced his heart together from the inside out. I believe there comes a time in some folks life where they call it good. What they know, they know, and there is no more to it. No more questioning. No doubt. Just hang on tight to what you have been convinced of. And when someone comes along with a valid question of your belief system…….dance or banter, but don't let them see you sweat!

[Mandy]

BTW, Nick, I still love ya. We're talking about serious things here and I'm pressing you for an answer for your belief….but I still respect you. I just think that you are avoiding my question for a deeper reason than you don't think I have the spirit!

[Stu]

Quote (Mandy @ Feb. 28 2008,18:36)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2008,18:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2008,18:19) Hi Mandy, No point in blowing your stack at me. Read again. You need the Spirit. Then we can dialogue. So Nick you would be unsure whether the second coming is scriptural, then?  Do you have no opinion, or are you saying it will definitely happen because you know, due to your 'having the spirit', while others don't. Stuart If he admits that the second coming of the promised Messiah is not scriptural, he will then have to look at why he believes something that is not written. I believe this is too much to ask a former Catholic.  Fear has laced his heart together from the inside out.  I believe there comes a time in some folks life where they call it good.  What they know, they know, and there is no more to it.  No more questioning.  No doubt.  Just hang on tight to what you have been convinced of.  And when someone comes along with a valid question of your belief system…….dance or banter, but don't let them see you sweat!

You know the other disappointing thing for me is that there is no good argument against atheism here. Those who limit the posting rights of atheists, or support that move, articulate no good argument against a non-believing worldview. I think the truth is they would like to massage their own egos by taking any chance they can to pontificate in the persona of some wise guru, pointing lost sheep in the right direction and having the reflection of righteous glory for putting people on the 'right path', but without the inconvenience of having to answer challenging questions about what they believe, questions to which the wise gurus actually have no answers.
You have shown that to be true as much as anyone else has.

Stuart

[Mandy]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2008,18:47)

You know the other disappointing thing for me is that there is no good argument against atheism here.

Fear motivates a lot of folks to stick with what they have been taught or once convinced of. Everything else is of the devil and will cause them to lose their salvation.

Entertaining ideas other than Jesus for a Christian is not something that is encouraged, as you have seen here. When you do look away for a moment to see about something else, boom! you are labeled all sorts of things. Peer pressure and fear keep the flock together.

There is no good argument against atheism here because most Christians are not prepared to answer why they believe what they do. It's like you are bringing steak to the table and all they have to offer is a hot dog. There cannot be a good debate without both parties prepared to answer.

I think t8 has given you a good row. Cato also has some good ideas. Clearly you are in a class all of your own, Stu. Surely you know this by now?

[Stu]

Cato is not bad at it. t8 only gives the impression; he has many different ways of expressing his one argument, one that was debunked 150 years ago.

Stuart

[TimothyVI]

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 28 2008,13:38)

Wow, it seems that people can overtake the power of God. So I guess the lack of similar miracles in modern times is due to a lack of belief in the power of God?

I have to disagree with you there kejohn.
I have personally witnessed many miracles. Quite a few have happened to those that do not believe, so that they may.

Tim

[kejonn]

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2008,01:47)

Quote (Mandy @ Feb. 28 2008,18:36) Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2008,18:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 28 2008,18:19) Hi Mandy, No point in blowing your stack at me. Read again. You need the Spirit. Then we can dialogue. So Nick you would be unsure whether the second coming is scriptural, then? Do you have no opinion, or are you saying it will definitely happen because you know, due to your 'having the spirit', while others don't. Stuart If he admits that the second coming of the promised Messiah is not scriptural, he will then have to look at why he believes something that is not written. I believe this is too much to ask a former Catholic. Fear has laced his heart together from the inside out. I believe there comes a time in some folks life where they call it good. What they know, they know, and there is no more to it. No more questioning. No doubt. Just hang on tight to what you have been convinced of. And when someone comes along with a valid question of your belief system…….dance or banter, but don't let them see you sweat! You know the other disappointing thing for me is that there is no good argument against atheism here. Those who limit the posting rights of atheists, or support that move, articulate no good argument against a non-believing worldview. I think the truth is they would like to massage their own egos by taking any chance they can to pontificate in the persona of some wise guru, pointing lost sheep in the right direction and having the reflection of righteous glory for putting people on the 'right path', but without the inconvenience of having to answer challenging questions about what they believe, questions to which the wise gurus actually have no answers. You have shown that to be true as much as anyone else has. Stuart

I suggested and support the action. Look, I'm in the non-believer's section too. I really don't mind, but its not too fair to address me in threads I can't respond in. Bring your questions to the heretics and outcasts section .

As far as there being a good argument against atheism, I would not disagree. Its all a matter of what you believe because there presently exists no way to “prove” God. And no, you can't do it with a banana.

It all boils down to what we accept on an individual level. As you said, there are likely many closet atheists in every religion. I'd bet there were more closet Muslims than closet Christians.

The belief in God, and then in Jesus or Mohammed or whoever, is a matter of personal choice. We choose to believe no matter what people say. So in the end, it is up to you to say “yes” or “no”.

I have chosen “yes”. I don't believe my faith gives me divine favor, it is just my choice. It is what I enjoy. And if my belief in God aids me in good thoughts, good words and good deeds, so much the better!

[kejonn]

Quote (TimothyVI @ Feb. 28 2008,07:02)

Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 28 2008,13:38) Wow, it seems that people can overtake the power of God. So I guess the lack of similar miracles in modern times is due to a lack of belief in the power of God? I have to disagree with you there kejohn. I have personally witnessed many miracles. Quite a few have happened to those that do not believe, so that they may. Tim

That was just a counter to what Nick was trying to prove.

Just curious, can you give me examples of miracles you've encountered? Gene mentioned the same and I asked him but he never gave any examples.

The reason I ask is because our Abrahamic teaching leads us to see miracles as a sign from God. Jesus said he was not going to give signs yet he supposedly did. What's up with that?

If faith is based on miracles, you'll be let down when the miracles don't come.

[kejonn]

Quote (Mandy @ Feb. 28 2008,02:00)

Quote (Stu @ Feb. 28 2008,18:47) You know the other disappointing thing for me is that there is no good argument against atheism here. Fear motivates a lot of folks to stick with what they have been taught or once convinced of. Everything else is of the devil and will cause them to lose their salvation. Entertaining ideas other than Jesus for a Christian is not something that is encouraged, as you have seen here. When you do look away for a moment to see about something else, boom! you are labeled all sorts of things. Peer pressure and fear keep the flock together. There is no good argument against atheism here because most Christians are not prepared to answer why they believe what they do. It's like you are bringing steak to the table and all they have to offer is a hot dog. There cannot be a good debate without both parties prepared to answer. I think t8 has given you a good row. Cato also has some good ideas. Clearly you are in a class all of your own, Stu. Surely you know this by now?

Seriously, people will try to prove the validity of Christianity or even Islam by throwing out numbers. But both religions are based on fear of the unknown. In Christianity, if you don't believe, you burn in hell.

I think Paul was having little luck in spreading his new religion. Then it dawned on him to use fear because it is well known that fear is effective. Not nice, but effective.

So basically its like this —

Paul: “Believe in Jesus”
Joe: “Who? why should I believe in Jesus”
Paul: “Hmmm. Uh, because if you don't you'll burn in Hades”
Joe: “Hades! Yikes! Yes, I'll believe in Jesus!”

And a new religion spread…

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