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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2010,06:25) Ed J, What is your position,
Do you believe that Christ is the Father?
Hi SF,You said in another thread…
'We cannot compare mortal costumes to immortal inhertance.'
Can we NOW do what you said we cannot do, in order to properly engage your question (without limitations)?God bless
Ed JQuote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,06:50) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2010,06:25) Ed J, What is your position,
Do you believe that Christ is the Father?
Hi SF,You said in another thread…
'We cannot compare mortal costumes to immortal inhertance.'
Can we NOW do what you said we cannot do, in order to properly engage your question (without limitations)?God bless
Ed J
I will explain in the other forum what i meant.
if you address it. (im basically you cant compare human tradition to Gods.. its not realy scriptural.. understanding.. i guess.)
You didnt answer my question.
I did not put a limitation.feel free.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 30 2010,02:53) Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2010,16:07) Take your time SF. Thanks for your consideration on the matter.
Blessings!
I took alot of thinking into this.First born of creation- i think this should be a thread.
Quote
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
I was thinking alot, and considering context. I started to see how Paul made a comparison here. First he mentioned somethings and exhortions to the church in the begeing of the book. I notice that even in Phillipians Paul uses the speech “In whom” Many times i have used this part to show people that everytime he mentions we should be like Jesus, he goes into detail about how Jesus is or who he is.
than 14. he tells how we are redeeme by him.
15. image, is a limited state, so we could say physical, of the invisble God, the firt born of all creation. before all.
16: Jesus created everything. even the invisible by him and for him.
17. before all, everything consists through him.
18. Head of Church, first of the dead to live.
19. all fullness dwell in him.
20. reconciled by him, for himself, earth or in heaven.
21. we were enemies, now reconciled.i kindof just wanted to mention my small thoughts about it above for you can kindof see how i see it.
Observations.
>Paul writes as if Jesus was the creator.
>Paul made a comparsion between The begginging of time and our reconcilation.
>Paul writes as if the Image, as a resperation of God, note: he did not say like the image of God, for ex: Man.
>When time began, Jesus existed. revelations. Alpha Omega.
>Jesus created everything, by him-for himself. not for someone.
>He is literally before all, and that all life and power that was mentioned consisted of him. (breath of life?) (bread of life) (never thirst again)
>Paul writes implying that Jesus is life.
>It please the father that All fullness dwell in him. (its please yaweh to crush him)
>Comparison between the Church with the Begining. in other words as he is the creator of the begginging he is also the head of the church. the first one to live again,
>All things have preeminence, in other words that he may be Superior in ALL THINGS, everything!
>The blood of the cross made peace,
>Major note: Notice how it keeps on talkign about first, it doesnt say it literally, but notice, how it continues to say, the first of all creation, the first of the dead, the first, this and that. before everything, everything came from and and his for him. In other words, there is a concept that is obessed with being First. only God should be First in our lives.Conclusion, Paul is telling me that Jesus is the Creator of the world, and that He is God himself.
espeacilly in comparison in other scripture, like John 1:1 and revelations, and other scriptures that speak of the Alpha and the omega. the study of Melchisdek also having no father or mother.
Notice many say that Melchedek himself is Jesus the high preist. who had no father no mother. no father?
Intresting.
What do you think? im sure someone will disagree. but from what i read, thats what i see. I thought the father was the creator of all things, thank you for showing me that it was actually Jesus.
Much love lighten up!!
=)
Hi SF,
I really appreciate that you took your time on this and didn't just answer without really thinking about it. Thanks!You said:
Quote Conclusion, Paul is telling me that Jesus is the Creator of the world, and that He is God himself. I understand that creation was carried out by both the Father and the Son and in the OT they were the Lord God with the outstretched Arm. I believe that is the way God presented Himself to the Israelites and they understood that as one being, however, now we know that the 'outstretched Arm' is the Son. Col 1 makes it clear that the Son was involved in creation and so does John 1:3
John 1:3
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASUCol 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
NASUHere we see that the Father is the source for all things and the Son is the one that the Father worked through.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
NASUIn the OT we see how the Israelites saw God and His Outstretched Arm as the one God that they worshiped. In the NT we learn that the Outstretched Arm used in creation is really God's Son…the only begotten God.
Jer 32:17-22
17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,
18 who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God. The Lord of hosts is His name;
19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;
20 who has set signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, and even to this day both in Israel and among mankind; and You have made a name for Yourself, as at this day.
21 'You brought Your people Israel out of the land of Egypt with signs and with wonders, and with a strong hand and with an outstretched arm and with great terror;
22 and gave them this land, which You swore to their forefathers to give them, a land flowing with milk and honey.Quote espeacilly in comparison in other scripture, like John 1:1 and revelations, and other scriptures that speak of the Alpha and the omega. the study of Melchisdek also having no father or mother. Notice many say that Melchedek himself is Jesus the high preist. who had no father no mother. no father?
Intresting.
What do you think?
The Alpha and the Omega can apply to the Father because He always existed and was the only being that always existed. He is the first always existent God and He is the last always existent God. Alpha and Omega can also apply to the Son because the Son is the first begotten God and the only/last begotten God. Do you see how they are both unique in their own right. Isn't that what Alpha and Omega can mean…a one and only of something?
As far as Melchizedek, we know that the Son as the root of David, has a Father, and as the descendant of David, the Son has a geneology and a father and a mother. So, I believe that the message about the similarities between Melchizedek and Jesus was that they both did not have a lineage that was required to be a high priest, yet each one was/is. Their priesthood was by divine appointment, not geneology.
I hope that helps, its the way that I see it anyway.
Love you, bless you!Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2010,07:02) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,06:50) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2010,06:25) Ed J, What is your position,
Do you believe that Christ is the Father?
Hi SF,You said in another thread…
'We cannot compare mortal costumes to immortal inhertance.'
Can we NOW do what you said we cannot do, in order to properly engage your question (without limitations)?God bless
Ed J
I will explain in the other forum what i meant.
if you address it. (im basically you cant compare human tradition to Gods.. its not realy scriptural.. understanding.. i guess.)
You didnt answer my question.
I did not put a limitation.feel free.
Hi SF,Thank you! I don't accept ANY limitations by anybody!
Jesus was Not God The Father.
GOD The Father(HolySpirit) was in him at his birth(50% God). (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
and Jesus was given the Spirit without measure at the Baptism by John the baptizer. (John 3:34)
When we are baptized with his spirit, we are also given the Spirit without measure (Psalm 23:5)God bless
Ed J
PS> Let me know if you have any more questions; OK?Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,07:51) Hi SF, Thank you! I don't accept ANY limitations by anybody!
Jesus was Not God The Father.
GOD The Father(HolySpirit) was in him at his birth(50% God). (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
and Jesus was given the Spirit without measure at the Baptism by John the baptizer. (John 3:34)
When we are baptized with his spirit, we are also given the Spirit without measure (Psalm 23:5)God bless
Ed J
PS> Let me know if you have any more questions; OK?
Hey ed,Thanks for responding.
I needed you to be clear with me, because i didnt know how to interpret your posts.
now that its clear i can understand you more clearly =)Quote (Lightenup @ June 02 2010,07:30) Hi SF,
I really appreciate that you took your time on this and didn't just answer without really thinking about it. Thanks!You said:
Quote Conclusion, Paul is telling me that Jesus is the Creator of the world, and that He is God himself. I understand that creation was carried out by both the Father and the Son and in the OT they were the Lord God with the outstretched Arm. I believe that is the way God presented Himself to the Israelites and they understood that as one being, however, now we know that the 'outstretched Arm' is the Son. Col 1 makes it clear that the Son was involved in creation and so does John 1:3
John 1:3
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
NASUCol 1:15-16
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
NASUHere we see that the Father is the source for all things and the Son is the one that the Father worked through.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
NASUIn the OT we see how the Israelites saw God and His Outstretched Arm as the one God that they worshiped. In the NT we learn that the Outstretched Arm used in creation is really God's Son…the only begotten God.
Jer 32:17-22
17 'Ah Lord God! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for You,
18 who shows lovingkindness to thousands, but repays the iniquity of fathers into the bosom of their children after them, O great and mighty God. The Lord of hosts is His name;
19 great in counsel and mighty in deed, whose eyes are open to all the ways of the sons of men, giving to everyone according to his ways and according to the fruit of his deeds;
20 who has set signs and wonders in the land of Egypt, and even to this day both in Israel and among mankind; and You have made a name for Yourself, as at this day.
21 'You brought Your people Israel out of the land of Egypt with signs and with wonders, and with a strong hand and with an outstretched arm and with great terror;
22 and gave them this land, which You swore to their forefathers to give them, a land flowing with milk and honey.Quote espeacilly in comparison in other scripture, like John 1:1 and revelations, and other scriptures that speak of the Alpha and the omega. the study of Melchisdek also having no father or mother. Notice many say that Melchedek himself is Jesus the high preist. who had no father no mother. no father?
Intresting.
What do you think?
The Alpha and the Omega can apply to the Father because He always existed and was the only being that always existed. He is the first always existent God and He is the last always existent God. Alpha and Omega can also apply to the Son because the Son is the first begotten God and the only/last begotten God. Do you see how they are both unique in their own right. Isn't that what Alpha and Omega can mean…a one and only of something?
As far as Melchizedek, we know that the Son as the root of David, has a Father, and as the descendant of David, the Son has a geneology and a father and a mother. So, I believe that the message about the similarities between Melchizedek and Jesus was that they both did not have a lineage that was required to be a high priest, yet each one was/is. Their priesthood was by divine appointment, not geneology.
I hope that helps, its the way that I see it anyway.
Love you, bless you!
Hey lighten up,I think we are going off topic, so i made a thread about it.
lets focus on this there. Consider the topic and post again.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=3246
Points and questions to consider:
1) David says the outstreched arm is the Holy Spirit, most people agree with that. I havent focused on that subject yet.
2)Israel worshiped him as one being?
3)1 cor8:6 great point, lets add that to the other thread.
4) Before Jesus existed as you say, before becomign flesh, he had not mother nor geneology. Melchesdek most say is Jesus.
5)Alpha and omega, refers to time, which is a limitation, for the image of of the invisible God to react.much love lets continue this dicussion in the other thread.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 02 2010,08:00) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2010,07:51) Hi SF, Thank you! I don't accept ANY limitations by anybody!
Jesus was Not God The Father.
GOD The Father(HolySpirit) was in him at his birth(50% God). (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20 / Luke 1:35)
and Jesus was given the Spirit without measure at the Baptism by John the baptizer. (John 3:34)
When we are baptized with his spirit, we are also given the Spirit without measure (Psalm 23:5)God bless
Ed J
PS> Let me know if you have any more questions; OK?
Hey ed,Thanks for responding.
I needed you to be clear with me, because i didnt know how to interpret your posts.
now that its clear i can understand you more clearly =)
Hi SimplyForgiven,Great! :^)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Eccl.9:12-17 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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