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Quote (david @ May 24 2010,15:50) Quote so i think that the oneness of the true christians i guess would be more than just the message. –SF
Yes, of course, Being “one” means you don't try to kill each other in wars. It means you love one another.
JOHN 13:35
“By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.””
Having love among themselves will be a true mark of genuine Christianity, and of course is needed in true unity, or oneness.Also, you have the same goals in life, the same purpose in life. You should believe the same things about God, and so I think, be preaching the same message. All these things, including love, add to the unity. They would be like brothers and sisters.
“Have love for the whole association of brothers in the world.”
davidare you not contredict your selve by stating ;Also, you have the same goals in life, the same purpose in life. You should believe the same things about God, and so I think, be preaching the same message. All these things, including love, add to the unity. They would be like brothers and sisters.
and now saying this ;;”Have love for the whole association of brothers in the world.”
how could this be true??
HI Ter,
I'm really not sure what you're asking me.I'm stating that Jesus true followers would be “one” united in love, and purpose throughout the world.
Where is the contradiction?Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 23 2010,02:17) Quote (Lightenup @ May 23 2010,13:45) Hi SF, I'm glad we are agreeing on something. That's always nice
About your comments:
Quote t doesnt make since, How can you be full God, and NOT be God. From what your telling me, its like he took a seed and just planted it, and that seed came from him. is that what your saying? yet this seed has no diffrent distingush from God, displays the very same morals, characther, choices and ethics,. They have no difference in personality, and yet say they are not one and the same.
How can someone be fully God and not be God? By being procreated by the Most High God, one can be the begotten God. I don't know how the procreation happened within the Most High God, but the one who designed asexual reproduction would not find it hard to procreate by Himself.
That is all I have time for now. Remember not to stay up too late:) I often listen to my podcasts on my iPod when my mind would otherwise not want to rest and let me sleep. The podcasts help me think about something else. It is good that HN is helping you dig deeper into scripture…let the Holy Spirit lead you and not the members of HN, ok? The Holy Spirit may use the members though.
G'nite!
Ya im glad we agree on something too. =)It just makes the process of understanding you just so much smoother, because we can dont have to back track to debate another topic that we already agreed on.
I dont want it to be that i took a step forward and than took two steps back.
lol we can continue and not have to go back and reargue something. finally discussing with someone who doesnt speak in circles. You have no idea, how much i look forward to your posts. even though we can disagree, your clear. I can understand you.
=) to continue
But i dont get that procreated? so Jesus was begotten before he was made flesh?
so your saying that God is Asexual. You see when i learnd about Asexuality, it meant that the being, made another being thats is exactly like the other.Idk. You see i agree that Jesus was begotten in Flesh, but you make it seem that he was created before created in flesh.
Yet he is full God but not God. Idk….i would like for your elaboartion on this with scripture if possible.
I think with more details i can get what your saying, because right now i cant comprehend.lol im trying not too. every response takes time for me to write. The Holy Spirit is wonderful! im very happy with the things that i have learned recently. lol
I agree, The Holy Spirit very well can use the members!Good night
Note: 2:17am
Hello SF,
I see your 'light' on…go to bed. What time zone are you in?Quote But i dont get that procreated? so Jesus was begotten before he was made flesh? Why do you think that the Son is called the Firstborn of all creation in Col 1?
Col 1:15-17
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
NASUAlso, how does one become the firstborn? See here:
Deu 21:17 NET
Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 1 wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 2 of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 3 – to him should go the right of the firstborn.I believe that He was begotten before He was made flesh. Go to bed and think over this. Let me know what you think later.
G'niteSimply forgiven…Dennison)
Sorry I hadnt been following this thread (theres so many here on trin/anti – trin) so I didnt know what id posted had already been covered.
In answer to your question on these verses..
Quote John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;Thats a good point which has got me thinking lately too.
It seems to be saying HE as another.
Later it says Jesus and The Father will come?
John 18 `I will not leave you bereaved, I come unto you;
23 Jesus answered and said to him, `If any one may love me, my word he will keep, and my Father will love him, and unto him we will come, and abode with him we will make;
So it says that Jesus and then it says Jesus and the Father will come
Yet before that it says HE (it seems the Holy Spirit is seperate) will come?
Earlier it said Jesus goes to the Father and they will see him no more?
Ok understandable if they see him no more if He returns in Spirit.
The rest I dont get.
Maybe someone else can help (us) here cause I dont know but im curious what others make of it.
Ps – Ed is a poster who used to post here but seems to have vanished lately.
Dennison your obviously being led by the Spirit hence the being unable to sleep.. constant thinking searching:) make the most of it….stay ONLY with the Bible dont read anything from any Religeous groups just the Bible stay with that let the Spirit teach you. Talking and Asking is good though remember where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name he is in the midst of them.
Quote (terraricca @ May 24 2010,15:32) sf
i am concluding from your answer to my respond to you that it is useless to continue this conversation ,
you can discredit me if you want you have already started ,by quoting what you did but this is yours and your way so be it .
i will no longer interfere in your quotes in any subject.
bye my friend
Pierre
I dont mind you posting,I just want to understand what your saying
and not end up in a useless debate that we already agree about.
or making claims that have no connection.
oh and i dont like being insulted either. you know those personal comments you make about me being blind, just not nice.
no one is winning Bro.I hope the very best for you,
May God bless you,
Con mucho amor,Quote (david @ May 24 2010,16:02) Quote In this case, the Jews are saying that Jesus is trying to make himself God.
in other words, im thinking they are viewing jesus like this crazy guy in the streets saying he is God.–SF
Quote So the jews believe that Jesus was saying that he was God?
Was Jesus saying that he was one with God?–SF
SF, I believe you are overstating what is said. Nowhere in scripture does Jesus say: “I am God.”
I can give you a list of 50 scriptures where virtually everyone he came in contact with said he was the Son “of God” and hence, not God himself.
Looking at the scripture:
“The Jews answred him, saying, for a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.“Notice the very next scripture:
Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “YOU are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came, and yet the Scripture cannot be nullified, 36 do YOU say to me whom the Father sanctified and dispatched into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, I am God’s Son? –John 10:34-36The Jews believed that Jesus was essentially making himself God. But Jesus never claimed such. Jesus himself said that he said: I AM GOD'S SON. And notice too, that according to JESUS (and not the Jews who accused him) that they were saying that Jesus was blaspheming because he said he was “God's son,” not because he claimed to be God.
What I think the Jews believed: that Jesus was essentially equating himself with God by saying he was God's son.
Does that make sense?
I think we agreed in the other responses.
im not sure. lol. im dazed. oh and the john 17: Im not saying it cannot be used, im more saying its not the same circumstance or event, because im talking abuot the ideas behind Why jesus said what he said, and how the jews reacted to it. i think? lol again im dazed.Im not saying that he said he was God literally. Im saying what did the Jews believe he was saying. Its a psychological approach to answer why they react the way they did. Intresting observation stating the part abotu Gods son.
Its a wayyyy bettter anaylysis from others who stated that he corrected the Jews. Someone said that i forgot who, saying that he corrected himself by stating gods, but more as you know.I again would intern go further into scripture, He also mentioned his works. How do you view that? and in Philipians it also mentions to believe he is in the Father, vise versea or believe in the works.
Quote What I think the Jews believed: that Jesus was essentially equating himself with God by saying he was God's son.
So your saying that the Jews believed that Jesus being the Son of God, and claiming that makes him equal to God.In other words, what did the Jews believe the Messiah was? God personaly rescueing them? because later it mentions that the High Preist because of Jesus popularity was scared of independance that they might be crushed by rome. How do they view the messiah in the jewish religion i guess?
YES BROTHER you do make ALOT of sense!
Thank you for that,
Thank you thank you
even though i might not agree! i do thank you!
Quote (Lightenup @ May 24 2010,18:07) Hello SF,
I see your 'light' on…go to bed. What time zone are you in?Quote But i dont get that procreated? so Jesus was begotten before he was made flesh? Why do you think that the Son is called the Firstborn of all creation in Col 1?
Col 1:15-17
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
NASUAlso, how does one become the firstborn? See here:
Deu 21:17 NET
Rather, he must acknowledge the son of the less loved 1 wife as firstborn and give him the double portion 2 of all he has, for that son is the beginning of his father’s procreative power 3 – to him should go the right of the firstborn.I believe that He was begotten before He was made flesh. Go to bed and think over this. Let me know what you think later.
G'nite
lol Hey Lighten Up,lol you caught me. im going right now. lol… Today i got off early, and i had every oppurtunity to Go to bed. but what Got me today was reading the Hebrew bible lol. took alot of time and the study of temptation and alot of things lol.
time zone….Idk. Im in Texas lol.
lol i will think over it. Tommorow i probably will start with the context.
Much love!
Good night!
Quote (karmarie @ May 24 2010,18:53) Simply forgiven…Dennison) Sorry I hadnt been following this thread (theres so many here on trin/anti – trin) so I didnt know what id posted had already been covered.
In answer to your question on these verses..
Quote John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;Thats a good point which has got me thinking lately too.
It seems to be saying HE as another.
Later it says Jesus and The Father will come?
John 18 `I will not leave you bereaved, I come unto you;
23 Jesus answered and said to him, `If any one may love me, my word he will keep, and my Father will love him, and unto him we will come, and abode with him we will make;
So it says that Jesus and then it says Jesus and the Father will come
Yet before that it says HE (it seems the Holy Spirit is seperate) will come?
Earlier it said Jesus goes to the Father and they will see him no more?
Ok understandable if they see him no more if He returns in Spirit.
The rest I dont get.
Maybe someone else can help (us) here cause I dont know but im curious what others make of it.
Ps – Ed is a poster who used to post here but seems to have vanished lately.
Dennison your obviously being led by the Spirit hence the being unable to sleep.. constant thinking searching:) make the most of it….stay ONLY with the Bible dont read anything from any Religeous groups just the Bible stay with that let the Spirit teach you. Talking and Asking is good though remember where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name he is in the midst of them.
Hey Karmarie,lol its ok! it happens. actualy i think theres more anti-trin than trin. we need to make a list… lol
anyways…
I think i will emphasize tommorw because im out of it right now. but here is the gist/jist (whatever)of my response.
It depends how you look at it. How would the perfect God be omnipresent, Yet be everything that you need in eternal life. omnipotent?
Yet be on a throne, yet another intercedeing yet another inside you.
I will elaborate tommorw.Tell me what you think?
God wants to be your everything, the very center of everything. How does these verses reflect that?
or the Trinity view, or Anti.
im curious as well. i am a curious george, just like that monkey.
I wonder what happened to Ed.
Thank you for your advice, i realy appreciate it.
I think only the Holy Spirit can do such things, and spark my intrests! actually that religious group thing you mention, i firmly believe that. But at times its good to understand what others believe. Ya your right God is always there, in our very conversations. I wonder through all the debates that he observes, that he is just laughing at us, because we know so little. and as we profess to be wise in God, Yet God looks at us like fools. we are fools compared to Gods wisdom lol.God bless
Night!
Dennison I agree we are just so small and (dumb) ha. We think were wise though, but we try and try to work it all out but I think that in the end we'll get it. (with some patience).
I need to learn more.
Its no use me pretending to know things I really know nothing about?
One step at a time.
PS – What I meant by being carefull what you read…watch those doctrine pushers who try to tell you what to believe or what it all means, (You know..Mormans, JWs, Adventists and so on) let the Spirit teach you.. you'l be good.
Dennison you asked this
Quote How would the perfect God be omnipresent, Yet be everything that you need in eternal life. omnipotent? Yet be on a throne, yet another intercedeing yet another inside you.
I myself dont think God sits on an actual throne, I think it simply shows us that there is “Gods throne” and there is another throne next to God maybe? Symbolic?
I think God being omnipresent -everywhere – its impossible for us to understand. How can we understand when the galaxies and all of creation were created could we do that? No. can we understand how God did that or how God can be everywhere? No. Can we feel Gods love and guidance?
Im like you tonight, done too much thinking and writting, time for the day to end:)
Bless you, Goodnight.
Quote (karmarie @ May 24 2010,02:53) Simply forgiven…Dennison) Sorry I hadnt been following this thread (theres so many here on trin/anti – trin) so I didnt know what id posted had already been covered.
In answer to your question on these verses..
Quote John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;Thats a good point which has got me thinking lately too.
It seems to be saying HE as another.
Later it says Jesus and The Father will come?
John 18 `I will not leave you bereaved, I come unto you;
23 Jesus answered and said to him, `If any one may love me, my word he will keep, and my Father will love him, and unto him we will come, and abode with him we will make;
So it says that Jesus and then it says Jesus and the Father will come
Yet before that it says HE (it seems the Holy Spirit is seperate) will come?
Earlier it said Jesus goes to the Father and they will see him no more?
Ok understandable if they see him no more if He returns in Spirit.
The rest I dont get.
Maybe someone else can help (us) here cause I dont know but im curious what others make of it.
Ps – Ed is a poster who used to post here but seems to have vanished lately.
Dennison your obviously being led by the Spirit hence the being unable to sleep.. constant thinking searching:) make the most of it….stay ONLY with the Bible dont read anything from any Religeous groups just the Bible stay with that let the Spirit teach you. Talking and Asking is good though remember where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name he is in the midst of them.
Hi karamarie,
I'll give you my insight on this passage.First of all, I believe that before Jesus' resurrection, the Holy Spirit was of the Father, the inner-person of the Father that, while remaining in Him, can flow from Him to be everywhere all at once. After the resurrection, that same Spirit that was already filling the Son and united with the spirit of the Son, flowed out of the Son to fill believers. Since then the united inner-person of the Father and the Son was called the Comforter and can fill us. That is how the Father and the Son can abide in us and be with us.
It is pretty awesome to think about…now if we can just walk in it daily and grow in the power and strength of the fullness of the Comforter dwelling within us…that's a worthy goal.
Blessings,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ May 25 2010,04:46) First of all, I believe that before Jesus' resurrection, the Holy Spirit was of the Father, the inner-person of the Father that, while remaining in Him, can flow from Him to be everywhere all at once. After the resurrection, that same Spirit that was already filling the Son and united with the spirit of the Son, flowed out of the Son to fill believers. Since then the united inner-person of the Father and the Son was called the Comforter and can fill us. That is how the Father and the Son can abide in us and be with us. Hi Kathy.
You mean like sunlight (comes from the [actual] sun) but fills everything around it with warmth light? So the Holy Spirit does..(To all who recieve it)…The comforter.
Kathi you said
Quote It is pretty awesome to think about…now if we can just walk in it daily and grow in the power and strength of the fullness of the Comforter dwelling within us…that's a worthy goal. I agree. The comforter brings comfort light love. Without it we are pretty much alone. Looking back thats for sure.
Thanks:)
Im taking my time going back to where I was a couple years ago (reading the bible). I missed so much!
Quote (karmarie @ May 24 2010,21:28) Dennison I agree we are just so small and (dumb) ha. We think were wise though, but we try and try to work it all out but I think that in the end we'll get it. (with some patience). I need to learn more.
Its no use me pretending to know things I really know nothing about?
One step at a time.
PS – What I meant by being carefull what you read…watch those doctrine pushers who try to tell you what to believe or what it all means, (You know..Mormans, JWs, Adventists and so on) let the Spirit teach you.. you'l be good.
Dennison you asked this
Quote How would the perfect God be omnipresent, Yet be everything that you need in eternal life. omnipotent? Yet be on a throne, yet another intercedeing yet another inside you.
I myself dont think God sits on an actual throne, I think it simply shows us that there is “Gods throne” and there is another throne next to God maybe? Symbolic?
I think God being omnipresent -everywhere – its impossible for us to understand. How can we understand when the galaxies and all of creation were created could we do that? No. can we understand how God did that or how God can be everywhere? No. Can we feel Gods love and guidance?
Im like you tonight, done too much thinking and writting, time for the day to end:)
Bless you, Goodnight.
Karmarie,
lol =)
we alll need to learn more.
lol I had a friend(aka, Rokkaman in this forum) that invited me to his house the other week because some mormons came by and were talking to him about God. and it was funny how he invited me to come and listen to what they had to say.When i got there, we didnt really let them talk to much, because by the few words they said, it was obvious that they themselves didnt even know what they believed. I have studied alot of different religions and cultures, and denominations. I kindof have too its part of my degree.
But it was funny in the end that we pretty much almost had them convinced, drop many points that was foundation for their doctrine, and pretty much wanted to runaway. Out of the two only one really listened to what we had to say, and probably left convinced. The other one basicaly put her very soul on the morman bible, and said that ask God and he will tell you its true, and I said I have, and what if i told you, that he told me its wrong. Silence….
I think we opened their minds.
I myself want to answer, but i feel that in these questions you should meditate rather than me telling you.
The main Question is What would a Perfect God do?
Hi Dennison, yeah we do (need to learn) but sometimes theres so many different opinions on every thing!
I think sometimes we just need to enter into Gods peace. You ask….what would a perfect God do? A perfect God is our God:)
SimplyForgiven,
Your explanation did help me to understand you more. I hope mine helped you undestand me as well.
Quote (karmarie @ May 24 2010,18:31) Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2010,04:46) First of all, I believe that before Jesus' resurrection, the Holy Spirit was of the Father, the inner-person of the Father that, while remaining in Him, can flow from Him to be everywhere all at once. After the resurrection, that same Spirit that was already filling the Son and united with the spirit of the Son, flowed out of the Son to fill believers. Since then the united inner-person of the Father and the Son was called the Comforter and can fill us. That is how the Father and the Son can abide in us and be with us. Hi Kathy.
You mean like sunlight (comes from the [actual] sun) but fills everything around it with warmth light? So the Holy Spirit does..(To all who recieve it)…The comforter.
Kathi you said
Quote It is pretty awesome to think about…now if we can just walk in it daily and grow in the power and strength of the fullness of the Comforter dwelling within us…that's a worthy goal. I agree. The comforter brings comfort light love. Without it we are pretty much alone. Looking back thats for sure.
Thanks:)
Im taking my time going back to where I was a couple years ago (reading the bible). I missed so much!
Hi Karamarie,
Yes, sort of like light waves. Think 'Spirit waves'Enjoy your time in the Word…your treasure chest of truth, knowledge, and understanding. A lamp to your feet.
God bless!
Quote (karmarie @ May 25 2010,12:15) Hi Dennison, yeah we do (need to learn) but sometimes theres so many different opinions on every thing! I think sometimes we just need to enter into Gods peace. You ask….what would a perfect God do? A perfect God is our God:)
The Perfect God is our God,Exactly.
There will always be opinions, but the Perfect God is our God
and he who seeks him, and Get closer to him,
well know more about him, because he is closer to him that is perfect.my opinion means nothing, yet the Perfect answer only comes fromt the Perfect God, He does what he does best, which is being God, being himself, in every perfect sense.
Ask and you shall receive,
Knock and the door will open to you,
Get closer, Closer, and Closer,
And you will see.Keep your eyes on Jesus,
4.Hebrews 12:1
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,Have Faith, hope, and Love
but the greatest of these is Love,
Love is your answer, For God is Love,
and through Love you may see because the word of God is written out of Love.Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2010,16:12) SimplyForgiven, Your explanation did help me to understand you more. I hope mine helped you undestand me as well.
Kerwin,It did! now that we understand eachother, we can understand why we write the things we write.
Any more questions PM me.
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