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Another anti-Jesus is God fallacy that came up today.
I have heard this statement that goes something like this:
Jesus can't be God because God will not share His glory with another:“I am the LORD, that is My name; I will not give My glory to another, Nor My praise to graven images.
If they assume that the LORD (Jehovah) is just the Father, then we can see the problem of Jesus being God also.
However, when we find out that Jehovah our God is both the God of gods and Lord of lords, Deut 10:17, we can understand that Jesus is God also because we have proof that He is the Lord of lords. We also have the words from Paul that says:
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.
We also have this scriptural witness:
John 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.That shows that the Father had glory with the Son before the world was.
Jehovah is not just the Father but also the Son.
Praise the Father and the Son,
KathiThe fallacy that Jesus cannot be God because God will not share His glory with another overlooks that God was speaking about not sharing glory with carved images. Jesus is not a carved image made in the image of man or beast but is the image of the invisible God Himself.
KJ
Here is a common fallacy:
Jesus is not diety, He is a created angel.1 Cor 6:3a
Do you not know that we will judge angels?How is it that all judgement is in the hands of the Son if He is a mere created angel that the saints in glory will judge?
John 5:22
“For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,The Son may be called the Angel of the LORD but that certainly doesn't mean that He is a created angel.
Kathi
True Kathi
John the Baptist was called “aggelos” which means “angel” but also can mean messenger, but we know he was not an angel. Once again like “elohim” which can mean judges, gods, God, ruler, etc, so it is a matter of translation based on context.
Not all “elohim” were gods neither are all “aggelos” angels.
WJ
Hi Keith,
You said it…context is king!Here is an anti-Jesus is God fallacy that Jack helped me bring to an end today…Jack did good!
“Some people here say”
that God is not a compound unity of more than one person because the singular personal pronoun is used in reference to Him.Here is proof that compound unities can be and are referred to as singular personal pronouns as well as plural personal pronouns. This is so because there is more than one person within a compound unity. The compound unity is 'one,' thus singular personal pronouns are used, and the compound unity is made up of more than one person and thus plural personal pronouns are also used.
Here are some examples of this:
Eph 5:25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
That should help people see that the church is indeed called a 'she' and also a 'her.'
Another:
To the Church in Laodicea
Rev 3:14“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Do you see how it says that the church says “I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.”
That is a perfect example of something that is a compound unity using singular pronouns and saying things with singular pronouns. All of the 'you' words are singular in the Greek when referring to the church in this passage.And Jack just posted this today:
Quote I recently made an interesting discovery regarding the idea of compound unity being spoken about in scripture in the singular. In John 12:40 John spoke about the Jews who rejected Jesus using all plural pronouns: “He has blinded THEIR minds and hardened THEIR hearts, lest THEY should see with THEIR eyes, lest THEY should understand with THEIR hearts and THEY should turn and I should heal THEM.”
John cited Isaiah 6:10 which in the Online Hebrew Interlinear all singular pronouns are used:
“Make the heart of this people fat, and make HIS ears heavy, and shut HIS eyes; lest HE see with HIS eyes, and hear with HIS ears, and understand with HIS heart, and convert, and be healed.”
found here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=250So there you have a few examples of compound unities that are referred to as 'she,' 'he,' 'him,' 'her.'
Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. Jehovah our God is the name of the compound unity of the Father (God of gods) and the Son (Lord of lords).
Deut 10:17
“For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.Jesus is the Lord of lords…only by the Spirit can you say that Jesus is Lord.
Thank you Jesus for you are the Lord of lords and thank you Father for you are the God of gods, and together you are the one compound unity known as Jehovah our God.
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ July 31 2011,16:05) Hi Keith,
You said it…context is king!Here is an anti-Jesus is God fallacy that Jack helped me bring to an end today…Jack did good!
“Some people here say”
that God is not a compound unity of more than one person because the singular personal pronoun is used in reference to Him.Here is proof that compound unities can be and are referred to as singular personal pronouns as well as plural personal pronouns. This is so because there is more than one person within a compound unity. The compound unity is 'one,' thus singular personal pronouns are used, and the compound unity is made up of more than one person and thus plural personal pronouns are also used.
Here are some examples of this:
Eph 5:25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. 28So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.
That should help people see that the church is indeed called a 'she' and also a 'her.'
Another:
To the Church in Laodicea
Rev 3:14“To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Do you see how it says that the church says “I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.”
That is a perfect example of something that is a compound unity using singular pronouns and saying things with singular pronouns. All of the 'you' words are singular in the Greek when referring to the church in this passage.And Jack just posted this today:
Quote I recently made an interesting discovery regarding the idea of compound unity being spoken about in scripture in the singular. In John 12:40 John spoke about the Jews who rejected Jesus using all plural pronouns: “He has blinded THEIR minds and hardened THEIR hearts, lest THEY should see with THEIR eyes, lest THEY should understand with THEIR hearts and THEY should turn and I should heal THEM.”
John cited Isaiah 6:10 which in the Online Hebrew Interlinear all singular pronouns are used:
“Make the heart of this people fat, and make HIS ears heavy, and shut HIS eyes; lest HE see with HIS eyes, and hear with HIS ears, and understand with HIS heart, and convert, and be healed.”
found here: https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=250So there you have a few examples of compound unities that are referred to as 'she,' 'he,' 'him,' 'her.'
Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. Jehovah our God is the name of the compound unity of the Father (God of gods) and the Son (Lord of lords).
Deut 10:17
“For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe.Jesus is the Lord of lords…only by the Spirit can you say that Jesus is Lord.
Thank you Jesus for you are the Lord of lords and thank you Father for you are the God of gods, and together you are the one compound unity known as Jehovah our God.
Kathi
Kathi,The new man is another example of compound unity. Paul said that Christ created in Himself from the TWO (Jew and Gentile) ONE new man (“man” is singular). Then Paul said that “HE” (the new man) is created in the image of the one who created “HIM”.
Compound unity is taught EVERYWHERE in the scripture. Compound unity is the image of God.
Jack
Great insight Jack! Another compound unity spoken of as a 'he' and a 'him.' You are right, that compound unity is everywhere and it seems that all compound unities have a name like the 'one new man.'
I'm not sure that the compound unity is the image of God but maybe the compound unity is the 'oneness' of God and is meant to be the oneness of the church. Believers are meant to be a compound unity as They are a compound unity.
Blessings,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 04 2011,00:16) Great insight Jack! Another compound unity spoken of as a 'he' and a 'him.' You are right, that compound unity is everywhere and it seems that all compound unities have a name like the 'one new man.' I'm not sure that the compound unity is the image of God but maybe the compound unity is the 'oneness' of God and is meant to be the oneness of the church. Believers are meant to be a compound unity as They are a compound unity.
Blessings,
Kathi
How about this. Man is a commmunity in God's image. God was never alone! A community is a compound unity.Jack
Matt 10:33 “But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.
Hey Kathi,
Check this out from another forum.
I wrote:
Quote If the Word was created , then there was a time that He was not face to face with God. So there was a time in God's existence that He was alone. Was God ever alone? I think not. thinker
A poster replied:
Quote Love cannot exist without “other”. Thus unless God is a “community” (as we believe, a Trinity) then God cannot be love, as God existed even before anything was created. But we know that God is love, and God is unchangeable, so God must not be just one person, thus a Trinity from all time.
This is the problem with the anti trinitarian's denial that God is a community. He has always been love, therefore He must have always had an object of His love. Love necessarily implies “other.”Jack
Hi Jack,
Well, I do believe that there were two that shared a mutual perfect love. However, I believe that we can love ourselves and so there only needs to be one to do that.Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Blessings,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 05 2011,01:59) Hi Jack,
Well, I do believe that there were two that shared a mutual perfect love. However, I believe that we can love ourselves and so there only needs to be one to do that.Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Blessings,
Kathi
But one cannot love even himself in isolation. He would self destruct.Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 05 2011,02:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 05 2011,01:59) Hi Jack,
Well, I do believe that there were two that shared a mutual perfect love. However, I believe that we can love ourselves and so there only needs to be one to do that.Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Blessings,
Kathi
But one cannot love even himself in isolation. He would self destruct.Jack
The true self lover does many benevolent acts for others (Aristotle).Jack
So many here believe that Jesus is just 'a god' to serve and bow down to and not worship. Let's see if serving and bowing down to 'a god' is allowed, ok?
Here we see that serving and bowing down to another gods is not allowed, in fact this makes God very angry.
2 Kings 17:35 with whom the LORD made a covenant and commanded them, saying, “You shall not fear other gods, nor bow down yourselves to them nor serve them nor sacrifice to them.
Now, 'IF 'Jesus is merely a god and not a God who is part of the compound unity of God, how strange that God the Father would be glorified when every knee bows down to and confesses that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Philipians 2:9
9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Now, here in the NT we see people serving the Lord Jesus:
Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the saints in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons:
Col 3:24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve.
Jesus is the Lord of lords, the Almighty Lord…many here do not confess this. He is the Lord that gets bowed down to.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 04 2011,09:59) Hi Jack,
Well, I do believe that there were two that shared a mutual perfect love. However, I believe that we can love ourselves and so there only needs to be one to do that.Gal 5:14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
Blessings,
Kathi
Hi KathiMan could not even love himself if it were not for the love of God.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit was always existing with the Father. Therefore they are the totality of Love!
Blessings
Keith
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