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Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2010,11:33) Can you show me where Jesus is called YHVH? Or Jehovah? Not “God is with us” or “Jehovah is Righteousness”, but just JHWH, JHVH, of Jehovah.
Zechariah 14:1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, 20 and 21 and “LORD (YHWH) of Hosts” on four occasions (verses 16, 17 and 21 [twice]).Quote And this is my understanding of the trinity that I've gained from a trinitarian: The Trinity Doctrine states that there is one God-head. This God-head is one being shared by three co-eternal, co-equal persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are all God, but each plays different roles.
I prefer this definition:1. The Father of Yeshua is YHWH
2. The Son of God is YHWH
3. The Holy Spirit is YHWH
4. There is One God, YHWHHi Is 1.18,
Do you not know the Son of God YAHSHUA?
YHWH was in him reconciling the world to Himself.The life is IN the Son.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2010,11:39) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2010,18:56) So that's a tick in the “YHVH” box for Ed. Who's next up?
Hi Paul,Let me introduce you to the “are you smarter than a 5th grader” test. Do you think Paul, based on his other writings, thought Jesus was in fact Jehovah? How about equal to Him?
peace and love,
mike
I think I'll wait for you to answer my question from pg 32 of this thread before I move on any further:In Hebrews 1:10 the Father addresses the Son as “Lord”. In what sense is the Son “Lord” to the Father?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2010,12:08) Show me a book by ANY wiriter of the Bible that throughout the whole book it is conclusive that the writer thought Jesus was Jehovah or equal to Him. Yes, there are a few Scriptures here and there that by themselves, sound a little suspicious. But God didn't only give us only a few Scriptures here and there, did He?
Show me the definative passage detailing everything the Bible has to say about baptism. Show me where we read in one sweeping, comprehensive statement the method of salvation. Have you not yet noticed that the Bible is not designed that way??Quote And in all of the books that contain one of those “suspicious” Scriptures, there are many, many more by the same writer that make it clear that Jesus is not Jehovah.
Name one.But please do this after you've addressed the Hebrews 1:10 question.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 06 2010,20:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2010,12:08) Show me a book by ANY wiriter of the Bible that throughout the whole book it is conclusive that the writer thought Jesus was Jehovah or equal to Him. Yes, there are a few Scriptures here and there that by themselves, sound a little suspicious. But God didn't only give us only a few Scriptures here and there, did He?
Show me the definative passage detailing everything the Bible has to say about baptism. Show me where we read in one sweeping, comprehensive statement the method of salvation. Have you not yet noticed that the Bible is not designed that way??Quote And in all of the books that contain one of those “suspicious” Scriptures, there are many, many more by the same writer that make it clear that Jesus is not Jehovah.
Name one.But please do this after you've addressed the Hebrews 1:10 question.
Isa8this Paul talk abode Christ;therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”Heb 1:10 He also says,
“In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Heb 1:11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Heb 1:12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”Heb 1:13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet” ?
Heb 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?Heb 4:7 Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”Is1;
What you have responded to me just shows how lacking your scriptural knowledge is.I feel that you are only here to 'fight a trinitarian corner' and not to put trinitarian doctrine to the test.
We have two here already and are happy with beating the be-jaysus out of them – and they are happy to have the bejaysus beaten out of them.
That your views are truly blighted and I have no other objective but to refrain from conversing with you.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 06 2010,20:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2010,11:39) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2010,18:56) So that's a tick in the “YHVH” box for Ed. Who's next up?
Hi Paul,Let me introduce you to the “are you smarter than a 5th grader” test. Do you think Paul, based on his other writings, thought Jesus was in fact Jehovah? How about equal to Him?
peace and love,
mike
I think I'll wait for you to answer my question from pg 32 of this thread before I move on any further:In Hebrews 1:10 the Father addresses the Son as “Lord”. In what sense is the Son “Lord” to the Father?
is8in this way;;1Co 15:27 Scripture says that God “has put everything under his control.” (Psalm 8:6) It says that “everything” has been put under him. But it is clear that this does not include God himself, who puts everything under Christ.
1Co 15:28 When he has done that, the Son also will be under God’s rule. God puts everything under the Son. In that way, God will be all in all.Quote (JustAskin @ April 06 2010,09:36) Is1;
What you have responded to me just shows how lacking your scriptural knowledge is.I feel that you are only here to 'fight a trinitarian corner' and not to put trinitarian doctrine to the test.
We have two here already and are happy with beating the be-jaysus out of them – and they are happy to have the bejaysus beaten out of them.
That your views are truly blighted and I have no other objective but to refrain from conversing with you.
JA
You cannot continue dialogue with Paul because you have no answer. Further more you do not hold a candle to the knowledge of the scriptures Paul has or his understanding of them.
Just check out his writings here, and if you have an open mind you might learn something!
WJ
JustAskin said:
Quote We have two here already and are happy with beating the be-jaysus out of them – and they are happy to have the bejaysus beaten out of them.
Ha!JA,
First, Is. 1:18 was studying the scriptures when you were milking on your mother's breasts.
Second, Mikeboll is getting the “be-jaysus” out of him and he is 100 times more compotent than you.
Note the beating that Mikeboll is suffering:
Mikeboll said to WorshippingJesus:
Quote And you must not be reading the same debate I am, brother. I am slowly getting Jack down to the heart of it all. On March 30 Mike admitted that he cannot prove scripturally that Jesus was begotten before His creation.
“When was Jesus begotten? While I think it was from his very creation, I cannot Scripturally prove it.“
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
On March 31 Mike admitted that the Greek “arche” in reference to Jesus in Revelation 3:14 could be translated “ruler.”
“Now that I know more (thank you for that), I agree that in 3:14 it could be translated as “ruler”.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
But on March 26 he outright accused trinitarians of “doctoring the scriptures” for the last 1800 years and “flat out lying” about Revelation 3:14.
“My point to all this is that the Trinitarians have been doctoring the Scriptures and changing the meanings of clearly written Scriptures for 1800 years. Lately, they just keep getting more and more blatant about it. The NIV is the most prominent translation in America today, at least with the younger, post-King James readers, and they are flat out lying about Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=70
thinker
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 06 2010,20:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 06 2010,11:39) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2010,18:56) So that's a tick in the “YHVH” box for Ed. Who's next up?
Hi Paul,Let me introduce you to the “are you smarter than a 5th grader” test. Do you think Paul, based on his other writings, thought Jesus was in fact Jehovah? How about equal to Him?
peace and love,
mike
I think I'll wait for you to answer my question from pg 32 of this thread before I move on any further:In Hebrews 1:10 the Father addresses the Son as “Lord”. In what sense is the Son “Lord” to the Father?
Hi Isaiah 1:18,Isn't it funny how some people keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord” or “Owner”“YOU” CANNOT argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].The names have been changed to protect the innocent! (Acts.18:15)
In the red corner it's “The Trinitarian” VERSUS “The non-Trinitarians”
in the blue corner: in a nonsensical useless battle over word structures.
This nonsensical fight is merely over word structures like master, king, Lord, Creator and God.
I will illustrate just how ridiculous their fight is: it's like the Abbot and Costello skit: who's on first!
I will illustrate my point using the term “Owner”, because this word adds clarity that the others lack.The Trinitarians say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians reply: Jesus is NOT “The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!The Same issue: A Closer Examination
Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!Now Change “The Word“, (Ha Ha Ha, ha ha ha) GET IT; That's exactly what both sides are doing!
They change “THE WORD” with useless substitutes like [†] master, King, Lord, Creator and God.
In this matter “The Word”(HolySpirit) is clear! 1Thess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth,
Here despiseth not man, but “GOD“, who hath also given unto us HIS HOLY SPIRIT.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWJ, TT,
What does the scriptures say concerning talking with those who do not have the Spirit of Truth.
Does it say that we should continue dialoguing with them till they infect our very spirit?
Not continuing to dialogue with Is1 is in no way a failure to be able to respond – Why do yousay that when you both have failed in all your Wiley (TT) and (diplomatic (WJ) ways to defeat me.
Can Satan defeat the those with the Holy Spirit – No. So what are you jiggering about.
IS1's posts do not contain even the reality of scripture – this shows he is just out for a fight – not wholesome dialogue – feverish or otherwise – just a fight… Throw in any old nonesense as a response – is that even Trinitarian Godly (oh, hold up – it might be – Ok, you got me – you win. What does the scriptures say:
“It is better to be allow yourself to be wronged than to continue to try and justify yourself against an adversary…” or something like that…Quote (JustAskin @ April 06 2010,16:04) WJ, TT, What does the scriptures say concerning talking with those who do not have the Spirit of Truth.
Does it say that we should continue dialoguing with them till they infect our very spirit?
Not continuing to dialogue with Is1 is in no way a failure to be able to respond – Why do yousay that when you both have failed in all your Wiley (TT) and (diplomatic (WJ) ways to defeat me.
Can Satan defeat the those with the Holy Spirit – No. So what are you jiggering about.
IS1's posts do not contain even the reality of scripture – this shows he is just out for a fight – not wholesome dialogue – feverish or otherwise – just a fight… Throw in any old nonesense as a response – is that even Trinitarian Godly (oh, hold up – it might be – Ok, you got me – you win. What does the scriptures say:
“It is better to be allow yourself to be wronged than to continue to try and justify yourself against an adversary…” or something like that…
Wha wha!JA, try this, put your heels together and close your eyes and repeat 3 times…
“The Trinity is false”, “The Trinity is false”, “The Trinity is false!
And see if it makes it so?
Your statements are circular because it can be said of you also!
No man can say Jesus is Lord (YHWH) unless it is by the Holy Spirit! 1 Cor 12:3
There must be something more to Pauls statement than meets the eye because a lot of people are calling him Lord, Lord and yet do not know who he is.
It took special revelation from the Father to understand what it meant to be the “Only Son of God”, even the devils knew him as the Son of God and Jesus hushed them.
So it is today, no man can know him unless the Holy Spirit reveals who he really is!
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ April 06 2010,16:04) Does it say that we should continue dialoguing with them till they infect our very spirit?
JAThen why do you keep engaging?
You used to accuse me for not reponding and in essence call me a liar because I had no time.
What is your excuse now? Is the above all you have?
Light overcomes darkness and righteousness overcomes sin!
WJ
Hi WJ,
If you claim to have this special knowledge why do you still confuse God in Christ Jesus with the human vessel?WJ,
Did I not stop engaging with Is1.
I don't get you.
I do something and you criticise me for doing it and then tell me that I should be doing the thing that you criticising me for doing.
Did you just want to say and I got there first?
WJ,
What is your involvement with what is1 and i do.
Has Is1 claiming that I bunked off or has he accepted my disengagement.
who are you – do you enjoy discord to try and encourage it where it was not?
Quote (JustAskin @ April 06 2010,16:44) WJ, What is your involvement with what is1 and i do.
Has Is1 claiming that I bunked off or has he accepted my disengagement.
who are you – do you enjoy discord to try and encourage it where it was not?
He is a Trinitarian like Jack and myself, so I should have said why do you continue to engage jack and myself as well?WJ
Hi WJ,
But holders of this intellectual philosophy -trinitarianism-never seem to know WHO God is.
So how can they KNOW GOD?
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