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Sorry I had to address another point.
Mankind can only understand God through paradoxes.
Nearly everything questioned about God can be understand through a paradox…
Most famously, Jesus being God and being Man simultaneously.
—————-
I want to point out God's creation of mankind and independant will.
God gave all of mankind not only independant will (choice) but the authority to exercise it.
He also gave Angels independant will (choice) without the authority to exercise it.
Angels have to take commands, if they fail to do so, they are cast out of heaven immediately (I thought we had it bad).
But as human beings we can reject God, repent, and be saved.
In Jesus' case however, it seems he was given independant will like the rest of us. Yet he couldn't do anything of himself?
He was only able to do as he saw the father doing?
He wasn't able to do his will but only that of The Father.
So it seemed as if Jesus was an exception to the rule.
He was given independant will when he was manifested as a man, but even the will of the man was subject to that of the Father's spiritual will.
That doesn't and has never happened with us.
If we don't want to do what God wants, as human beings we are capable and allowed to disobey.
However Jesus, being God in flesh had the will of the flesh AND the will of The Father.
And he did and spoke only as he saw The Father?
When he found out he had to die for mankind, he went away…was troubled, and PRAYED asking The Father to take this cup away from him!!!!!
His human will conflicted with The Father's will.
But when he received his response, he understood, that he must obey his Father's Will.
Jesus was incapable of doing otherwise even though he did not desire to go through the condemnation of sin.
The only way for Jesus to of trully and fully ONLY been a human man, is if he were capable of following his own God given independant will.
But because he was both God and Flesh, he was incapable of going against The Spirit that dwelled within him.
Meaning God had control of him.
And if God had control of Jesus in the same way he controlled The Angels of The Lord….
Then Jesus so too had to of literally been God.
Now understand this control of Jesus is also paradoxical…
God had control yet he didn't, in that Jesus was obedient unto death.Quote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,09:41) There is no paradox in the Scriptures except what you read into it
That's like saying, there is no truth in scripture?How can you deny a common application of scripture without any grounds for your cause?
To say there are no paradoxes in scripture is just like saying, there are no parables… lol
And Nick, here you go again with your pointless 1 liners.
Quote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,09:41) There is no paradox in the Scriptures except what you read into it
Hi JustAskin,Mark 10:44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Luke 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first,
and there are first which shall be last.Matt.10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he
that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.Read Eccl 9:16-18
And Eccl 10:3.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Eccl.9:12-16 / Isaiah 60 13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 21 2010,05:38) Quote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,09:41) There is no paradox in the Scriptures except what you read into it
Hi JustAskin,Mark 10:44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Luke 13:30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first,
and there are first which shall be last.Matt.10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he
that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.Read Eccl 9:16-18
And Eccl 10:3.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Eccl.9:12-16 / Isaiah 60 13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Amen brother for finding the paradoxes litered in scripture.
Now if only he can see the paradox that we call Jesus Christ.
God in flesh.Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 21 2010,08:29) Hi RM,
You neglect your Saviour Jesus.
God was in him.
I don't neglect him, I receive him.What is your grounds for saying I neglect him?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2010,09:52) Hi RM,
You are confused and now you want us all to be?
You sound like the pharisees lol.I'm not confused at all.
So far your stance is littered with contradictions…
If anything contradictions are the source of all the confusion.
My stance perfectly reconciles the bible entirely.
It's confusion-free!!!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2010,10:17) Hi RM,
Your paradoxes are not confusion?
No, they're a part of life.Just like phenonmenons, similies, metaphors, idioms.
Maybe you should take a college class or two to learn about them.
Plus I don't own them, lol.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 28 2010,10:21) Hi RM,
When you see the light come and teach.
Well that's why i'm here.I told you i was going to bed when God made me come back to the boards I wanted to leave.
But as a christian I have to be obedient to his call.
——
You however, I won't go so low as to say you don't see the light.
Because you do, it's just very dim. lol
Quote (RokkaMan @ June 20 2010,04:31) Sorry I had to address another point. Mankind can only understand God through paradoxes.
Nearly everything questioned about God can be understand through a paradox…
Most famously, Jesus being God and being Man simultaneously.
—————-
I want to point out God's creation of mankind and independant will.
God gave all of mankind not only independant will (choice) but the authority to exercise it.
He also gave Angels independant will (choice) without the authority to exercise it.
Angels have to take commands, if they fail to do so, they are cast out of heaven immediately (I thought we had it bad).
But as human beings we can reject God, repent, and be saved.
In Jesus' case however, it seems he was given independant will like the rest of us. Yet he couldn't do anything of himself?
He was only able to do as he saw the father doing?
He wasn't able to do his will but only that of The Father.
So it seemed as if Jesus was an exception to the rule.
He was given independant will when he was manifested as a man, but even the will of the man was subject to that of the Father's spiritual will.
That doesn't and has never happened with us.
If we don't want to do what God wants, as human beings we are capable and allowed to disobey.
However Jesus, being God in flesh had the will of the flesh AND the will of The Father.
And he did and spoke only as he saw The Father?
When he found out he had to die for mankind, he went away…was troubled, and PRAYED asking The Father to take this cup away from him!!!!!
His human will conflicted with The Father's will.
But when he received his response, he understood, that he must obey his Father's Will.
Jesus was incapable of doing otherwise even though he did not desire to go through the condemnation of sin.
The only way for Jesus to of trully and fully ONLY been a human man, is if he were capable of following his own God given independant will.
But because he was both God and Flesh, he was incapable of going against The Spirit that dwelled within him.
Meaning God had control of him.
And if God had control of Jesus in the same way he controlled The Angels of The Lord….
Then Jesus so too had to of literally been God.
Now understand this control of Jesus is also paradoxical…
God had control yet he didn't, in that Jesus was obedient unto death.
God does not control any man.What do you mean?
Quote Now understand this control of Jesus is also paradoxical…
God had control yet he didn't, in that Jesus was obedient unto death.You sound like someone trying to explain the “Trinity”. I don't know how to explain it they say: “it is a mystery”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 28 2010,11:23) Quote (RokkaMan @ June 20 2010,04:31) Sorry I had to address another point. Mankind can only understand God through paradoxes.
Nearly everything questioned about God can be understand through a paradox…
Most famously, Jesus being God and being Man simultaneously.
—————-
I want to point out God's creation of mankind and independant will.
God gave all of mankind not only independant will (choice) but the authority to exercise it.
He also gave Angels independant will (choice) without the authority to exercise it.
Angels have to take commands, if they fail to do so, they are cast out of heaven immediately (I thought we had it bad).
But as human beings we can reject God, repent, and be saved.
In Jesus' case however, it seems he was given independant will like the rest of us. Yet he couldn't do anything of himself?
He was only able to do as he saw the father doing?
He wasn't able to do his will but only that of The Father.
So it seemed as if Jesus was an exception to the rule.
He was given independant will when he was manifested as a man, but even the will of the man was subject to that of the Father's spiritual will.
That doesn't and has never happened with us.
If we don't want to do what God wants, as human beings we are capable and allowed to disobey.
However Jesus, being God in flesh had the will of the flesh AND the will of The Father.
And he did and spoke only as he saw The Father?
When he found out he had to die for mankind, he went away…was troubled, and PRAYED asking The Father to take this cup away from him!!!!!
His human will conflicted with The Father's will.
But when he received his response, he understood, that he must obey his Father's Will.
Jesus was incapable of doing otherwise even though he did not desire to go through the condemnation of sin.
The only way for Jesus to of trully and fully ONLY been a human man, is if he were capable of following his own God given independant will.
But because he was both God and Flesh, he was incapable of going against The Spirit that dwelled within him.
Meaning God had control of him.
And if God had control of Jesus in the same way he controlled The Angels of The Lord….
Then Jesus so too had to of literally been God.
Now understand this control of Jesus is also paradoxical…
God had control yet he didn't, in that Jesus was obedient unto death.
God does not control any man.What do you mean?
Quote Now understand this control of Jesus is also paradoxical…
God had control yet he didn't, in that Jesus was obedient unto death.You sound like someone trying to explain the “Trinity”. I don't know how to explain it they say: “it is a mystery”.
Love in Christ,
Marty
well i'm not, I don't believe in a trinity. Answer the above questions before you bring up new points.Hi RM:
You say:
Quote
The only way for Jesus to of trully and fully ONLY been a human man, is if he were capable of following his own God given independant will.Again, God does not control anyone. Jesus did have a “free will”. He chose to obey God because it was the only way that you and I could be saved.
Also, the angels have a “free will”. I believe that they obey God because they know how wonderful He is.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 28 2010,14:46) Hi RM: You say:
Quote
The only way for Jesus to of trully and fully ONLY been a human man, is if he were capable of following his own God given independant will.Again, God does not control anyone. Jesus did have a “free will”. He chose to obey God because it was the only way that you and I could be saved.
Also, the angels have a “free will”. I believe that they obey God because they know how wonderful He is.
Love in Christ,
Marty
The devil drew 1/3 of the angels out of heaven.
Yes they have a free will, and some have exercised it against God.Jesus so too has a free will, but is in complete obedience to The Father.
The only way for him to be powerful enough to be completely obedient is if he were from God himself.
And we know he is because it is a requisite to our faith.
No man has ever come from God himself, not even Adam.
——–
To come from God would mean you are also God.
In the same light as if water came from the ocean, that water so too is ocean water.
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