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Quote Hi W,
Indeed.
He had his own spirit which he surrendered in death at calvary[matt 27.50].
The Spirit given from God at the Jordan remained with him so that he yet lived and that Spirit of God raised him.The Spirit is ONE Spirit and ONE with God.
We too can become united
in that Spirit
in Christ
in God
eternally.NH So there you have it.
The three in Jesus body. Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one in him!
Quote Hi W,
Indeed.
He had his own spirit which he surrendered in death at calvary[matt 27.50].
The Spirit given from God at the Jordan remained with him so that he yet lived and that Spirit of God raised him.The Spirit is ONE Spirit and ONE with God.
We too can become united
in that Spirit
in Christ
in God
eternally.NH
Yes we can be united with that Spirit, but we are not that Spirit.
Jesus is the Spirit!
Big diffence.
ICor 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.Eph 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;II Cor 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 08 2007,03:30) Quote Hi W,
Indeed.
He had his own spirit which he surrendered in death at calvary[matt 27.50].
The Spirit given from God at the Jordan remained with him so that he yet lived and that Spirit of God raised him.The Spirit is ONE Spirit and ONE with God.
We too can become united
in that Spirit
in Christ
in God
eternally.NH So there you have it.
The three in Jesus body. Father, Son and Holy Spirit as one in him!
Hi W,
So Christ was a mere physical shell to you?
He was not like other men?
Or was he a living man that also lived in himself?Quote Hi W,
So Christ was a mere physical shell to you?
He was not like other men?
Or was he a living man that also lived in himself?NH
Did not Jesus live in a body?
Does he still live in a body?
Do you live in a body?
Hi W,
Jesus died and his spirit returned to God as with all men.
God does not die.
God's Spirit never removed eternal life from him and raised him.
It is no longer I that liveth but Christ, as Spirit, that liveth in me.Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending,
the First and the Last“Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
(Rev 1:7-8)“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending,
the First and the Last.”“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.”
(Rev 22:13 & 16)The Book of Revelation, which is the Testimony of Jesus Christ, identifies Jesus as the The Alpha & The Omega (The First & The Last). It further identifies Him as The Almighty. Further testimony by Jesus, showing that the title, The First & The Last belongs to Him is found in:
– – ” And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying to me, Do not fear, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hell and of death.”
(Rev 1:17-18)– – – “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The First and the Last, who became dead and lived, says these things:-”
(Rev 2:8)– It is Jesus Christ, Himself, who reveals that He is the First & the Last of Holy Scripture. Since the Bible is one continual work stretching from Genesis to Revelation, it is clear that this title belongs to Jesus, and no other. There can only be one who is the First and one who is the Last
We also find the following statements concerning the First & the Last in the Holy Bible:
– – “Who has planned and done it, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, Jehovah, am the first and the last; I am He.”
(Isa 41:4)– – “So says Jehovah, the King of Israel, and His redeemer Jehovah of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besides Me there is no God.”
(Isa 44:6)– – “Listen to me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last. My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together.”
(Isa 48:12-13)Isaiah, inspired by God, calls the First & the Last, Jehovah, Jehovah of Hosts, the Redeemer, and God (meaning the God of Israel). This further biblical evidence provide overwhelming Testimony from Holy Scripture that Jesus (Jehovah) is indeed God Almighty & Eternal.
Jesus is Jehovah
Yes Jesus is the beginning and the end. He is the beginning of the creation of God and He is the end of that creation all being in Christ.
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
Quote Yes Jesus is the beginning and the end. He is the beginning of the creation of God and He is the end of that creation all being in Christ. Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
kenrch
Not so fast. Are you saying Jesus was created and had a beginning?
Rev 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;The word for beginning is “arche”, Which means;
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
It comes from the word “archomai” which means;
1) to be the first to do (anything), to begin
2) to be chief, leader, ruler
3) to begin, make a beginning
There is no scriptural evidence Jesus had a beginnng or was created.
He is co- creator of “all” things. And he did not create himself.
By him all things had their origen and by him all things consist.
Hi CB,
You say
“Jesus is Jehovah”
You are on your own here outside of scripture and outside of the words of Jesus himself.
Jesus said we should believe in God and believe also in him.
Sounds like two we should believe in.
Two who became one in the Spirit.NH
Quote Jesus said we should believe in God and believe also in him.
Sounds like two we should believe in.Not two NH but Three.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Have another close look at this.
Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending,
the First and the Last“Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, and those who pierced Him will see Him, and all the kindreds of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
(Rev 1:7-8)“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending,
the First and the Last.”“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify these things to you over the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright and Morning Star.”
(Rev 22:13 & 16)The Book of Revelation, which is the Testimony of Jesus Christ, identifies Jesus as the The Alpha & The Omega (The First & The Last). It further identifies Him as The Almighty. Further testimony by Jesus, showing that the title, The First & The Last belongs to Him is found in:
– – ” And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, saying to me, Do not fear, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hell and of death.”
(Rev 1:17-18)– – – “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The First and the Last, who became dead and lived, says these things:-”
(Rev 2:8)– It is Jesus Christ, Himself, who reveals that He is the First & the Last of Holy Scripture. Since the Bible is one continual work stretching from Genesis to Revelation, it is clear that this title belongs to Jesus, and no other. There can only be one who is the First and one who is the Last
We also find the following statements concerning the First & the Last in the Holy Bible:
– – “Who has planned and done it, calling forth the generations from the beginning? I, Jehovah, am the first and the last; I am He.”
(Isa 41:4)– – “So says Jehovah, the King of Israel, and His redeemer Jehovah of Hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besides Me there is no God.”
(Isa 44:6)– – “Listen to me, O Jacob and Israel, My called; I am He; I am the first, I also am the last. My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together.”
(Isa 48:12-13)Isaiah, inspired by God, calls the First & the Last, Jehovah, Jehovah of Hosts, the Redeemer, and God (meaning the God of Israel). This further biblical evidence provide overwhelming Testimony from Holy Scripture that Jesus (Jehovah) is indeed God Almighty & Eternal.
Jesus is Jehovah
NH
Quote Hi CB,
Another sad searcher for non existant truths based only on similarities.Is that the best you can come up with?
Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:This proves beyond doubt that the Son of man (Jesus) is the LORD thy God.
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.WJ,
The word for beginning is “arche”, Which means;
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
It comes from the word “archomai” which means;
1) to be the first to do (anything), to begin
2) to be chief, leader, ruler
3) to begin, make a beginning
There is no scriptural evidence Jesus had a beginnng or was created.
He is co- creator of “all” things. And he did not create himself.
By him all things had their origen and by him all things consist.
I don't understand your point here. It seems that the definitions you gave support Jesus being created.
Take a LOOK: beginning, first person, begins to be, first to begin, anything begins to be, etc.
With words like beginning all through your definitions how can you say Jesus was not the beginning of the creation of the Father? Jehovah has NO beginning while Jesus says HE is the beginning. Beginning of what? The creation of God.
The Father created Jesus (the word) and then spoke everything into existance using Jesus His first creation. The beginning of the creation of God. Remember GOD HAS NO BEGINNING, right?
If we let go of our traditions then we become as children ready to learn. Please don't take offence. Sooner or later all will have to come out of her. The originator of the Trinity doctrine and the Harlot. You said that you don't believe the Catholic church to be the Harlot. Then who do you believe the Harlot to be?
You love your neighbour as yourself you do well.
Quote (Cult Buster @ Jan. 10 2007,12:59) NH Quote Hi CB,
Another sad searcher for non existant truths based only on similarities.Is that the best you can come up with?
Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God:This proves beyond doubt that the Son of man (Jesus) is the LORD thy God.
Jer 23:5-6 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Yhovah)OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Hi CB,
In love with fantasy you have lost sight of truth.
Reading between the lines you no longer see the lines.
So God raised up God as the branch?I am not pointing to anyone in particular, but to say that lies come from the devil.
John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.Quote WJ, The word for beginning is “arche”, Which means;
1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
It comes from the word “archomai” which means;
1) to be the first to do (anything), to begin
2) to be chief, leader, ruler
3) to begin, make a beginning
There is no scriptural evidence Jesus had a beginnng or was created.
He is co- creator of “all” things. And he did not create himself.
By him all things had their origen and by him all things consist.
I don't understand your point here. It seems that the definitions you gave support Jesus being created.
Take a LOOK: beginning, first person, begins to be, first to begin, anything begins to be, etc.
With words like beginning all through your definitions how can you say Jesus was not the beginning of the creation of the Father? Jehovah has NO beginning while Jesus says HE is the beginning. Beginning of what? The creation of God.
The Father created Jesus (the word) and then spoke everything into existance using Jesus His first creation. The beginning of the creation of God. Remember GOD HAS NO BEGINNING, right?
If we let go of our traditions then we become as children ready to learn. Please don't take offence. Sooner or later all will have to come out of her. The originator of the Trinity doctrine and the Harlot. You said that you don't believe the Catholic church to be the Harlot. Then who do you believe the Harlot to be?
You love your neighbour as yourself you do well.
kenrch
Look again!
He is the origin of all things.
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
It comes from the word “archomai” which means;
1) to be the first to do (anything), to begin
2) to be chief, leader, ruler
3) to begin, make a beginning
He is the beginner, the chief ruler, leader, the first to do anything.
This definition does not show him as a created being. Or as having a begining.
Jesus is the “beginning and the End” the “first and the last”.
Now if you say by this he had a beginning then you would have to say he has an end.
He is the beginning of all of creation because by him all things were made.
Quote Is that the best you can come up with? CB, you have to be kidding. You continually repost your previous posts over and over without actually discussing anything. I've made several comments to your posts. You've ignored them all.
Someone makes a comment that for once doesn't actually completely disprove what you just said and you attack him.
Seems cowardly.
If you actually want to have a conversation, you must converse.
He does that david because he is brainwashed and he wants to brainwash others.
Brainwashing is usually accomplished by repeating the same thing over and over again until it is drummed into the victim.
Fortunately he will only be able to deceive those who are not of the truth anyway.
The other thing that I advise is to not spend to much time on him. I personally do not want to cast pearls before the swine and I know in his case that he will trample under foot any precious truth in scripture that doesn't hold his view.
For his sake I would be careful what pearls to give him.
Quote The other thing that I advise is to not spend to much time on him. I personally do not want to cast pearls before the swine and I know in his case that he will trample under foot any precious truth in scripture that doesn't hold his view. I know. I have tried to converse with him. I've responded to much of his posts. But he posts the exact same posts in 8 different trinity threads at the same time. It makes it look like he's saying a lot, when it's just the same thing that he seems to repeat every weak in several threads.
He had been posting about the Alpha and Omega. I'm now going to post something about that.
CB will not respond to my comment by actually addressing it. I know this, because he can't. I see that now. (I'm actually trying to use reverse pychology, but again, I know it won't work, as he is completely disabled in this respect.) Oh well.This post is to CB, but if anyone could speak for him, I'm sure he would appreciate that.
ALPHA AND OMEGA–Who does this title belong to?
REVELATION 1:11
Certain scholars hold that Rev 1:11 is spurious. The additional occurrence of this phrase (Alpha and Omega) in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations. It does not appear in Revised Standard, New English, Jerusalem Bible, New American Bible, Challenor-Douay Version, etc.Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6)
So this would contradict the rest of the Bible, if it was taken that Jesus was the alpha and omega of Rev 1:11.Again, this indicates that the alpha and omega spoken of are God Almighty, not Jesus.
THE BOOK OF REVELATION
When looking at this symbolic book, it's important to remember that a number of different ones are involved. GOD gave the revelation to JESUS who used his angel (messenger) to present it in signs to JOHN.
Sometimes, John himself is speaking. Sometimes, Jesus. Sometimes God.
They all seem to introduce themselves at the beginning or mention is made of them all.
If it's not made clear who is speaking, I would think it is better to consult the rest of scripture.We must remember this point: The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8)
WHO IS THE ALMIGHTY IN THE BIBLE?
Thus Revelation 1:8 (RS) says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God.About 42 other times in the Bible the title “Almighty” is used with reference to the Father, God. It is nowhere else used with reference to Jesus! This is a strong indication that this verse is speaking of the Father. Think about that: 42 other times, the word “Almighty” is used in connection with the Father, Jehovah God. And then we have this verse, we are told that the Alpha and Omega is also the “Almighty” and “God.” We know that different ones speak in this book. There is really no way to conclude anything other than this: Jehovah God is the Alpha and Omega referred to here.
In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here . . . There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such.”And in view of the rest of the Bible, that must in fact, be the case.
REVELATION 21:6
The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.REVELATION 22:12 (TODAY’S ENGLISH VERSION)
It's clear that some Bibles want this to be Jesus. At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it.REVELATION 22:13
The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation.
–Verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John,
–verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus,
–the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,”
–and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself.
“The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God.
As I said before:
“The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21.) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.””At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person, does it? (Heb. 3:1)
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.
ISAIAH 44:6
““This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.”
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