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Beginning And end the tree of life
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
So when that tree of knowledge Satan ruled Man kind back to the dust
They were moved out of the garden least they eat from the tree of life also and become eternal sealed in it fruits
Gen 3:22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.Thank you God it would be hell eternal to live with this mind full of pride
We start our journey here to return again to the tree of life our eternal end for eating its
A New government a new king even he that redeemed back to God by promise half way through the ruling to death and dust
And a path way throughRev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Return to Eden paradise
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.Pro 3:18 She [is] a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy [is every one] that retaineth her.
Pro 11:30 The fruit of the righteous [is] a tree of life; and he that winneth souls [is] wise.charity
Jesus is Jehovah
In Revelation 1:8. I am quoting from the Jehovah's Witness’s own Bible, and it reads, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God.
Ask the Jehovah's Witness, “What does Alpha and Omega mean?” They'll reply, “The beginning and the end.” Then ask them, “How many Alphas and Omegas can you have?” They'll answer, “Only one.” They will agree that there is only one Alpha and Omega.
Then turn to Revelation 22:12-13 which says, “Look I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me….I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Ask the Jehovah’s Witnesses, “Who do you say the Alpha and Omega is?” They will say, “Jehovah.” Now take a careful look. The Alpha and Omega in verse twelve is coming quickly. Let's see who is speaking in verse twelve.
Look at verse sixteen, “I Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.” It is Jesus speaking in verse twelve. If there is any doubt go to verse 20 which says, “He that bears witness of these things says, 'Yes; I am coming quickly' Amen come Lord Jesus.”
So it is clear that the Alpha and the Omega in verse twelve is Jesus.
Here is a strong proof text that Jesus is God because both Jehovah and Jesus are called the Alpha and the Omega.
Another pair of verses that are effective when used together are Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17-18.
Isaiah 44:6 says, “This is what Jehovah has said, 'The king of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, I am the first and I am the last.'”
Ask the Jehovah’s Witnesses how many firsts and lasts can you have? It's obvious to anyone you can only have one first and one last. Ask them, “Who is the first and the last?” They will say, “Jehovah.”
Now turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says, “Do not be fearful; I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead but look! I am living forever.”
Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He died but is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last.
Here again we see Jesus is God.
Hi CB,
Indeed Christ is “the first and the last.”
But “alpha” and “omega” do not mean first and last.
They are just the first and last letters in the greek alphabet.
Rev 213And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. “
Read Rev 22 in this context as a reminder of the Words of God above.
Quote In Revelation 1:8. I am quoting from the Jehovah's Witness’s own Bible, and it reads, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God. Ask the Jehovah's Witness, “What does Alpha and Omega mean?” They'll reply, “The beginning and the end.” Then ask them, “How many Alphas and Omegas can you have?” They'll answer, “Only one.” They will agree that there is only one Alpha and Omega.
I am not with the JWs; however, I believe that Alpha and Omega all through the book Revelation is in reference to the God and Father of Jesus, not to Jesus, who is the son of His God. We find the phrase — Alpha and Omega — in Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13 — all three of which, if we examine the scriptures closely, can be seen to refer to Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” — Revelation 1:8
New American Standard VersionThe scripture itself, the context, as well as other scriptures, show that it is the God of Jesus who is being quoted as speaking in Revelation 1:8, not Jesus himself. The Revelation is from the God and Father of Jesus, who, in turn gives the message to his angel, who in turn gives the message to John. (Revelaton 1:1) There are four persons involved in the transmission of the Revelation, and sometimes it is Jesus who is being quoted, and sometimes it is John who is speaking, and sometimes it is the angel who is quoted, and sometimes it is the God and Father of Jesus who is quoted.
The Alexandrian manuscripts, the Complutensian edition, and the Latin Vulgate, the Syriac, and Arabic versions, all read, “the Lord God”; and the Ethiopic version only has “God”. Most modern translations have “the Lord God”, which was used as a Greek substitute for the expression “Yahweh [Jehovah] God”, that appears many times in the Old Testament. This can be seen by comparing Acts 3:22; 7:37 with the Hebrew of Deuteronomy 18:15. In all instances where the phrase occurs in the NT, it is in reference to Yahweh, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. — Luke 1:32; 1 Peter 3:10-15; Revelation 11:17,19; 15:3; 16:7; 18:8; 21:11; 22:6.
http://tinyurl.com/y3kockLikewise, with the phrases “the Lord our God” and “the Lord your God”: These phrases are always used in reference to Yahweh, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. — Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Deuteronomy 6:13; 10:20); Matthew 22:37 (Deuteronomy 6:5); Mark 12:29 (Deuteronomy 6:4); etc.
Jesus is differentiated from “God, who is and who was and who is to come” in Revelaton 1:4,5. Verses 5 and 6 refer to Jesus and the church members who are made a kingdom and also priests to “his God and Father” (World English Bible translation), that is, the God and Father of Jesus, which gives further differentiation between Jesus and his God and Father. Verse 7 refers to Jesus as coming with clouds. Verse 8 turns to quoting Yahweh. In verses 9-10 John begins to write of himself. In verse 11, John begins to quote Jesus. In verses 12 through 16, John himself is writing of what he saw. In verse 17, John reports that he falls before Jesus as dead, and tells of what Jesus does and says.
Thus, Jesus is not being called Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:8, nor is he being called “Almighty”.
Only the God and Father of Jesus is called the “Most High” in the scriptures: Genesis 14:22; Psalm 7:17; 83:18; 92:1; Luke 1:32; John 13:16.
More detail on this can be found at:
http://godandson.reslight.net/rev-1-8.html
http://reslight.net/forum/index.php?topic=139.0Revelation 21:5 – He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
Revelation 21:6 – He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give freely to him who is thirsty from the spring of the water of life.
Revelation 21:7 – He who overcomes, I will give him these things. I will be his God, and he will be my son.If these are the words of Jesus, then they could only be applied to him in a manner similar to Isaiah 9:6, concerning the time when he will be the Mighty Power and Everlasting Father to the regenerated human race in the age to come. — Matthew 19:28; Romans 8:19-21.
Nevertheless, he who sits on the throne in the book of Revelation is spoken of as the God of Jesus (Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12), and is distinguished from the Lamb. (Revelation 5:1-7; 5:13, 6:16, 7:10,15) Applying this to the One sitting on the throne in Revelation 21:5 would mean that these words are the words of the God of Jesus, not Jesus himself, although they were delivered by Jesus to the angel who delivered them to John. (Revelation 1:1,2) Many, if not most, trinitarian Bible scholars acknowledge that the words of Revelation 1:5 are spoken by God the Father as distinguished from the Lamb, but some vaguely, and often without any reason for doing so, will claim that the one being quoted in verses 6 and/or 7 is Jesus. It should be apparent that the one being quoted verses 5-7 are all the “one who sits on the throne”.
These words of Revelation 21:7 are not directed to the believers of this age, but to the world in the age to come, in the day of judgment and regeneration of the world, although indirectly they are applicable, since the believers in this age are reckoned, counted, imputed (Strong's #3049) with the blessings and powers of the age to come, having received the spirit as a token, earnest, as first fruits, of that which is to come. –Romans 4; 6:11; 1 Corinthians 1:21,22; 5:17; 2 Corinthians 5:5; Ephesians 1:3-14; Hebrews 6:5; 12:23; James 1:18.
Now we come to Revelation 22:13. Many feel sure that this is Jesus speaking, since the one speaking tells of his “coming”, and in Revelation 22:20, Jesus says: “I come quickly.” And John exclaims: “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.” This overlooks the fact that the scriptures speak of Yahweh coming, and also of Jesus coming, and that the two are closely associated. This does not mean that Jesus is Yahweh. Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus, comes to judge the world, not only with and by means of Jesus, but also the saints. — Malachi 3:1-6; Psalm 96:13; 98:9; Daniel 7:18,22; Isaiah 40:10,11; Micah 1:3; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 17:31; 2 Peter 3:7,8; 1 Corinthians 6:2; Psalm 90:4; Jude 1:14,15; Revelation 1:1; 20:4,11-13; 22:6.
Below I quote Revelation 22:6-21 with my comments in brackets [].
Revelation 22:6 He [The angel mentioned in Revelation 21:9] said to me, “These words are faithful and true. The Lord [Yahweh], the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angels to show to his servants the things which must happen soon.” [This agrees with Revelation 1:1-5, that the revelation is from God through Jesus, and delivered by an angel.]
Revelation 22:7 [Note the abrupt change; the angel suddenly quotes someone as coming:] “Behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book.” [Many claim that the one coming is Jesus; however, this could also be speaking of Yahweh. More than likely, since the angel was just referring to Yahweh, the God of the spirits of the prophets, the angel is quoting Yahweh.]
Revelation 22:8 [John again changes and speaks of himself:] Now I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. When I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who had shown me these things.
Revelation 22:9 He [the angel] said to me, “See you don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers, the prophets, and with those
who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”
Revelation 22:10 He [The angel] said to me, “Don't seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand.
Revelation 22:11 He who acts unjustly, let him act unjustly still. He who is filthy, let him be filthy still. He who is righteous, let him do righteousness still. He who is holy, let him be holy still.”
Revelation 22:12 [Very abrupty the angel begins to quote someone else again:] “Behold, I come quickly. My reward is with me, to repay to each man according to his work. [The God of Jesus judges the world through Jesus, and each man will get his praise from God. — Acts 17:31; Romans 2:16; 1 Corinthians 4:5; 2 Timothy 4:1]
Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
Revelation 22:14 [This is evidently the angel speaking:] “Blessed are those who do his [God's] commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:15 Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.”
Revelation 22:16 [Now the angel quotes Jesus:] “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify these things to you for the assemblies. I am the root and the offspring of David; the Bright and Morning Star.”
Revelation 22:17 [This is probably the angel speaking:] “The Spirit and the bride say, 'Come!' He who hears, let him say, 'Come!' He who is thirsty, let him come. He who desires, let him take the water of life freely.”
Revelation 22:18 [John suddenly quotes Jesus:] “I testify to every man who hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if anyone adds to them, may God add to him the plagues which are written in this book.
Revelation 22:19 If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, may God take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:20 [John writes] He [Jesus] who testifies these things says, “Yes, I come quickly.” [John responds:] Amen! Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen. — World English Bible translation, with quotation marks slightly adjusted from that used in the World English.However, there are some scriptures in which Jesus is recorded as declaring himself as “the first and the last”. Was Jesus claiming to Yahweh?
Revelation 1:17
When I saw him, I fell at his feet like a dead man. He laid his right hand on me, saying, “Don't be afraid. I am the first and the last,
Revelation 1:18
and the Living one. I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.The thought many would like to read into this evidently is that when Jesus refers to himself as “the first and the last” that this somehow means that Jesus is Yahweh, who says in Isaiah 44:6: “I am the first, and I am the last.” Additionally, the assumption is usually made that Jesus' reference to himself as “the first and the last” means that Jesus is, has always been and always will be. One site plainly says that Jesus, by using that expression of himself, was claiming to by Yahweh.
What does Jesus himself indicate regarding his reference to himself? Did he say he has always been — that he was uncreated, and that he could never cease to exist? No, he, as the first and the last, plainly says: “I was dead.” Thus he is telling us of a time when he — the first and the last — was not. By such Jesus is, in effect, denying that he is Yahweh, who never ceases to be. But Jesus says, in reference to his being brought out of the death condition, “I am alive forevermore.”
This is reiterated in Revelation 2:8 where Jesus refers to himself as: “The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life.” For him to come to life would mean that he, the first and the last, had no life while dead. If he was actually alive while dead then he never was actually dead.
Of course, our trinitarian neighbors would tear apart what Jesus said and have the expression “the first and the last” apply to the the alleged “God” nature of Jesus while they would separate the expression “who was dead” as not meaning God whom they allege Jesus is claiming to be in the expression “the first and the last”, but rather only the body/flesh/humanity of Jesus. The First and the Last, they claim is God, who did not die, but rather it was the “man” Jesus who died. In effect, they would end up denying what Jesus actually said, that 'the first and the last' was indeed dead. In reality, there is no reason to divide this up so, except to satisfy the added on trinitarian concepts. It was Jesus himself who died, ceased to have sentiency, and it was Jesus himself who came back to life.
The contextual evidence is that Jesus is speaking about his being the first and last in some way concerning his being dead and brought back to life. How could this be?
Revelation 1:5 refers to Jesus as the “firstborn” of the dead. No one had been brought back to life directly by Yahweh, never to die again, except Jesus. Jesus was the first. At the time of the writing of the Revelation, Jesus was also the last that had been actually brought back to life, never to die again. Believers are now “counted” or “reckoned” as justified and alive, but are not actually raised to life until the “last day” — the day of the world's judgment. Jesus was also the “last” to be directly brought back to life by Yahweh, since God has given the authority of the resurrection and judgment to Jesus. — John 5:19-30; 6:39,40,44,54; 11:24; 12:47,48; Acts 17:31.
http://hereafter.reslight.net/cdj.htmlYahweh, of course, is the first and last EL/ELOHIM (strength, power, might) in the universe. (Isaiah 44:6) No one can have any power or might aside from him. Even the demons have to depend on Yahweh for any power they have (which power they misuse). They have no power (strength, might) of their own, except that they have received such power from God. Yahweh, the God and Father of Jesus, is the only ultimate Supreme Being. (John 17:1,3) Additionally, none of the idol-gods of men were formed before Him, since He had no beginning of existence, nor can any be formed after Him, since he has no ending of existence.
Christian love,
RonaldHi ronday888.
Welcome to Heaven Net. I haven't seen you here before.
I will read your post later. A bit long, but will be interesting to see what you have to say.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 27 2006,05:44) Hello. I don't know why people persist with this nonsense that Jesus is not called the true God or the Almighty when 1John 5:20 and Revelation 1:8 clearly give him these titles.
Not to mention the various passages speaking of Yahweh from the Tanakh applied directly to Jesus in the New Testament (e.g. Is. 6:9-10; Joel 2:32).
What sense does it make to assert that the Father alone is God,
Matt 28:18,19
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:Jesus is his Son, and the Holy Spirit is how God operates in the Church, therefore that is why they are all mentioned in Matthew 28:19?
Perhaps those on this forum have never read the text in Greek, or maybe you have and are just hoping that your audience hasn't.
But there is one name (onoma) and the definite article (tou) appears before each person, showing a definite distinction. In other words, the Spirit of God simply being the same as the Father doesn't wash.
Quote
I don't know why people persist with this nonsense that Jesus is not called the true God or the Almighty when 1John 5:20 and Revelation 1:8 clearly give him these titles.I wonder why anyone wants to add to the scriptures that Jesus is Yahweh his God, thus nullifying the entire basis of atonement.
1 John 5:20 – We know that the Son of God has come, and has given us an understanding, that we know him who is true, and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
The Son of God was sent the only true God, Him Who Is True. — John 17:1,3.
The Son of God came to declare Him Who Is True, the only true God. — John 1:18
The Son of God as well as John declared that Jesus' followers are in the only true God, Him Who Is True. — John 17:21; 1 John 3:23,24; 4:16.
The follower of Jesus is not only in the Him Who Is True, but also in the Son of Him Who Is True. — John 14:20; 17:21.
Yes, the One Who Is True is the true God, the only true God who sent His Son, Jesus Christ, into the world. — John 17:1,3.
Jesus is not the only true God who sent Jesus into the world.
Yes, blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the only true God who sent Jesus. — Romans 15:6; 1 Corinthians 1:3; 2 Corinthians 1:3; Ephesians 1:3,17; 1 Peter 1:3; John 17:1,3.
There is nothing in John 5:20 that says that Jesus is his God of whom he is the son.
In service of Jesus and his God,
RonaldQuote (t8 @ Dec. 30 2007,09:32) Hi ronday888. Welcome to Heaven Net. I haven't seen you here before.
I will read your post later. A bit long, but will be interesting to see what you have to say.
Actually, although it has been a long time since I posted, I am not actually new to Heaven net, but thanks for the welcome. For those who may not know, I am associated with the Bible Students movement, not with the JWs.
http://ctr.reslight.net/bs.htmlChristian love,
RonaldRonday, even though it was a long time ago, I remember seeing your posts before.
Your website says this: “We acknowledge that there are a few similarities of belief between Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses.”The Alpha and Omega being the Father and not Jesus is one of these similarities. If you go back to page 36 you can see that our comments are similar.
Twice in one page you clearly stated that you are “not with the JWs.” We understand that. You don't have to say it every time you comment, for half the people on this site agree that God is not a trinity and that the trinitarians mis-apply the Alpha and Omega scriptures.
It surprised me greatly when Is 1:18 (one of the greatest supporters of the trinity on this site) said that these “Alpha and Omega” scriptures were among the “most” powerful proofs of the trinity.
I have a question that you can help me with. First, yes, he is not under the huge pyramid. And he clearly wasn't a mason, based on his words. The images aren't necessarily masonic. When was the pyramid put there? And by whom? Andy why?
Hello Ronald! I am not familiar with the Bible Student Movement, please explain who they are and what their beliefs are. From your post I think that you do not belief in a trinity, and I agree. In John 1:1 john does call Jesus or the Word God.
However Revelation is all about a revealing from God to Jesus who then gave it to an Angel to gave it to John
Rev. 1:1 The Revelation ot Jesus Christ, which God gave unto Him, to show unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and He send and signified it by His Angel unto His servant John.Alpha and Omega is the beginning and the end, that is what Jesus was and is. He is the firstborn of all creation and all others were created through Him and by Him. He is the first and the last of the creation of the Almighty God. All others were created by Jesus.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (david @ Dec. 31 2007,10:20) I have a question that you can help me with. First, yes, he is not under the huge pyramid. And he clearly wasn't a mason, based on his words. The images aren't necessarily masonic. When was the pyramid put there? And by whom? Andy why?
I am not sure exactly when the pyramid monument was built in the Rosemont Cemetery, but I believe it was around 1919 or 1920. I know that Joseph Rutherford had it built in the center of the Society's lot at the Rosemont cemetery, although I am not sure what his claims were for having it built. I am hoping to soon obtain the Watchtowers on cd for that time period, and maybe I can find out more from this.Christian love,
RonaldQuote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 31 2007,10:39) Hello Ronald! I am not familiar with the Bible Student Movement, please explain who they are and what their beliefs are. From your post I think that you do not belief in a trinity, and I agree.
The Bible Students movement began, in the sense that it is referred to today, with the ministry of Charles Taze Russell. Most Bible Students adhere in varying degrees to what Russell taught, especially concerning the “ransom for all”. Indeed, this doctrine is probably the greatest difference between the Bible Students and Jehovah's Witnesses, and was one of the major reasons for the split between Rutherford and the majority of long-time Bible Students in the latter part of 1920s.The other major point that is different is on organization. Bible Students do not have a central authority; usually each congregation takes care of its own affairs.
I don't know of any associated with the Bible Students that believe that blood transfusions are forbidden in the scriptures.
On the Restoration Light site, I tried to present a quick review of what most Bible Students believe, which I present below:
God has revealed his truth by means of his holy spirit through the prophets in the Old Testament and through Jesus and his apostles in the New Testament. (Mark 12:36; Luke 4:11; 10:21; 24:27,44; Acts 1:16; 2:33; 10:38; 28:25; Hebrews 1:1,3; 3:7; 1 Peter 3:10-12; 2 Peter 1:21) God, by means of his holy spirit, especially led the apostles into all the truths concerning Christ and what he said. (John 14:26; 16:4-13; Acts 1:2; Galatians 1:12; Ephesians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 2:2) The truths revealed to the apostles and made available to us are recorded in the Bible (the commonly-accepted 66 books) itself. (Ephesians 3:3-12; Colossians 1:25,26; 1 John 4:6) Of course, without the holy spirit, these things that are recorded will still be a mystery to us. — Mark 4:11; 1 Corinthians 2:7-10.
http://studies.reslight.net/mysteries.htmlGod, by means of his holy spirit, reveals through the scriptures that man was created sinless, in God's character image, and that he was given a dominion, and that through sin mankind fell under the penalty of death and destruction, by which mankind came to be by nature children of wrath, made subjects of corruption, all being under condemnation through Adam, and through which mankind is undergoing exposure to futility and various evils, permitted by God to teach him by experience the evil nature and effects of sin and the desirability of hating and forsaking it. — Genesis 1:26-28,31; 2:17; Psalm 8:5-8 (Mankind does not now have this dominion — Hebrews 2:6-8); Ecclesiastes 1:2-15; Romans 5:12-19; 6:23; 8:20-23; 1 Corinthians 15:21,22; Ephesians 2:3; Psalm 90:15.
God, by means of his holy spirit, reveals that the basis of hope for everlasting life for the elect and the non-elect is in the fact that God “is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe”; that Jesus by the grace of God tasted death for every man, “a ransom for all”; that God “desires to have all men to be saved, and come to full knowledge of the truth,” and that Jesus is “true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world”, “the testimony in its own times (in due time – KJV)”. — 1 Timothy 4:10; 2:3-6; Hebrew 2:9; John 1:9 (New King James Version).
God, by means of his holy spirit, reveals through the scriptures that the Gospel was preached to Abraham, saying, “in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed”; “all the nations [the heathen] of the earth shall be blessed”; that Jesus, along with all the sons of God of this age, make up the great “seed of Abraham”, through whom “all the families of the earth shall be blessed”. That this blessing of salvation and enlightenment for the heathen will come during Jesus' second advent, in “the times of restitution of all things,” when God's kingdom will fill the whole earth, when the heathen will not be under the deceptions of the great Adversary. — Genesis 12:1-3; 22:18; 26:4; Daniel 2:34,35,44,45; Galatians 3:7-9; Matthew 6:10; Acts 3:19-23; Revelaton 20:1-3.
God's holy spirit reveals through the scriptures that the Gospel Age has been the Church's judgment day (2 Thessalonians 1:4,5; 1 Peter 4:17), but God “has appointed a day, in which he will judge the world [the non-belivers of this age] in righteousness” — “the day of judgment and perdition [destruction] of ungodly men; but . . . do not be ignorant of this one thing, that one day with Yahweh is as a thousand years.”; that Jesus said of the unbeliever in this age: “If anyone listens to my sayings, and doesn't believe, I don't judge him. For I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He who rejects me, and doesn't receive my sayings, has one who judges him. The word that I spoke, the same will judge him in the last day.” — John 12:47,48; Acts 17:31; 2 Peter 3:7,8; Psalm 90:4; Revelation 20:12-15.
God's holy spirit reveals through the scriptures that Jesus is the satisfaction for the sins of the Church and the world; that the world's new judgment day through Jesus will be “in righteousness”, with Satan abyssed so that he will not be able to deceive the nations [heathen]; that mankind lost his first chance of life because of Adam's sin, and thus “the ransom for all” will give each of them will have one full, free, fair opportunity to gain eternal life through Christ, either in this life or after being awakened from the dead in the new day of judgment; that in this new judgment day there will be no blinding influences of Satan, and all the nations [the unbelieving heathen of this age, as well as the unbelieving Jew of this age] will learn the ways of Yahweh, for then the whole earth will be filled with the knowledge of the only true God, Yahweh. — Psalm 9:8; 96:13; 98:9; Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:4,5,9; 25:7-9; 29:18,24; Jeremiah 31:34; John 5:28,29; 1 John 2:2; Acts 17:31; 24:15; Revelation 20:1-3,7,12,13; Acts 24:15.
Yahweh's holy spirit reveals through the scriptures that the hope of God's true people now being developed is that they will have an abundant entrance into God's everlasting Kingdom; that their present mission is to develop and perfect themselves and others in Christ-likeness, to preach and teach others the Gospel, the Good News of God's Kingdom through Jesus to the world as did Jesus, and, as the seed of Abraham, to prepare for the work of blessing all the families of the earth in the coming Kingdom on earth. — Genesis 12:3; 22:16-18; Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:9; Daniel 2:44; 7:22,27; Matthew 4:23; 9:35; 10:7; 24:14; 28:19,20; Mark 16:15; Luke 8:1; 9:6; 24:47; John 13:15; Acts 3:19-25; 5:42; 8:4; 10:42; 20:25,35; 28:31; Romans 15:3,5; 1 Corinthians 1:23; 6:2; 11:1; Galatians 3:7-9,16,29; Ephesians 5:2; 6:10-18; Philippians 2:5: 2 Timothy 4:1,2; Hebrews 5:12; 6:13-20; 1 Peter 2:21; 4:1; 1 John 2:6.
God's holy spirit reveals through the scriptures that Yahweh (Jehovah) is the only true God, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus. Jesus has one who is the Supreme Being over him; Jesus is not his Supreme Being whom he worships, prays to, and who sent him, and whose will he carried out in willful obedience. — Deuteronomy 18:15-19; Matthew 4:4 (Deuteronomy 8:3; Luke 4:4); Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Exodus 20:3-5; 34:14; Deuteronomy 6:13,14; 10:20; Luke 4:8); Matthew 22:29-40; Matthew 26:42; Matthew 27:46; Mark 10:6 (Genesis 1:27; Genesis 2:7,20-23); Mark 14:36; 15:34; Luke 22:42; John 4:3; 5:30; 6:38; 17:1,3; 20:17; Romans 15:6; 2 Corinthians 1:3; 11:31; Ephesians 1:3,17; Hebrews 1:9; 10:7; 1 Peter 1:3; Revelation 2:7; 3:2,12.
http://godandson.reslight.net/jesusnotyhwh.htmlGod's holy spirit reveals through the scriptures that Jesus is the firstborn creature, existing with his God and Father before the world of mankind began; that through [Greek, dia], or by means of [Greek, en], his firstborn creature, all [Greek, panta] dominions, thrones, principalities and powers in heaven (invisible spirit beings) and on earth (the visible dominion given to man — Genesis 1:26,28; Psalm 8:4-8) came into existence, with the evident exception of himself and his God (see 1 Corinthians 15:27 for a direct example of evident exception related to “the all” being spoken of). — John 1:1; 6:62; 17:5; Colossians 1:15-18; Revelaton 3:14.
http://creation.reslight.net/the-beginning.html
http://godandson.reslight.net/jesus-beginning.htmlGod's holy spirit reveals through the scriptures that Jesus is divine; that He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit, and became a life-giving spirit, highly exalted by his God and Father, and given by his God a name which is above every name. (1 Peter 3:18; 1 Corinthians 15:45; Philippians 2:9-11). God's holy spirit reveals through the scriptures that the holy spirit itself proceeds from the Father and the Son, and is manifested in all true Christians. — 1 Corinthians 2:9-16; 2 Timothy 1:7.
http://atonement.reslight.net/raisedspirit.htmlChristian love,
RonaldIs not the basic definition of “creature”: “something created.”
I know that when a lot of people here that word, they naturally think of how it is used most often, but that is not the most basic meaning of the word.
Creature: “Anything created.”
http://dictionary.die.net/creatureIf he's the firstborn of creation, then he is “of creation.”
Not that I go out of my way to use this word with reference to him, but the word does fit.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 01 2008,07:34) Hi Ron,
FIRSTBORN CREATURE?
Firstborn from the dead-yes
The beginning of the creation of God-yes
The evidence of the usage of the word “firstborn” all
through the scriptures supports that firstborn of all creation in
Colossians 1:15 is partitive genitive, thus, the firstborn is indeed a part of the creation of which he is firstborn. Yes, Jesus is indeed a creature, the firstborn creature, the first living creature to be brought forth into existence.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 27 2006,10:44) I don't know why people persist with this nonsense that Jesus is not called the true God or the Almighty when 1John 5:20 and Revelation 1:8 clearly give him these titles.
He is the son of God and it isn't nonsense.Quote (t8 @ Jan. 31 2008,13:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 27 2006,10:44) I don't know why people persist with this nonsense that Jesus is not called the true God or the Almighty when 1John 5:20 and Revelation 1:8 clearly give him these titles.
He is the son of God and it isn't nonsense.
Jesus is never called “Almighty” in scripture and if you are trying to prove it, it isn't at all clear.Equally unclear is 1 John 5:20, where some say Jesus is called the true God.
1 JOHN 5:20
“But we know that the Son of God has come, and he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one. And we are in union with the true one, by means of his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and life everlasting.”It's talking about the Son of God coming and giving us knowledge of a certain one, “the true one.” Then, This true one is said to be in union with us, by means of Jesus. Then, we are told about either Jesus, or this true one: “This is the true God.” Is this true God referring to Jesus, or the “true one”? At the very least, it isn't at all clear, as some protest.
Secondly, Rev 1:8.
REVELATION 1:8
“The Lord God says, ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty!’” (The New American Bible)
While Jesus Christ is referred to in the previous verse as “coming with the clouds,” the words of Revelation 1:8 indicate that it is “the Lord God,” “the Almighty” who is speaking. In Scripture, only the Father is spoken of as “the Lord God” and as “Almighty.” As well, just a few verses before, God is shown to be separate from Jesus and is referred to as “the one who is and who was and who is coming.” (Rev 1:5)
If we have a phrase or a title that is repeatedly applied numerous times to a certain one, and we don’t find this word used in connection with anyone else by name, what are we to think if we come across another instance of that word or phrase where it isn’t absolutely clear who is being spoken of? The burden of proof would have to rest on anyone insisting case was different from all the rest.“ALMIGHTY”:
Shaddai (Heb. “Almighty”) and Pantokrator (Gk. “Almighty”) are repeatedly used with reference to Jehovah, the Father. (Ex 6:3; 2 Cor 6:18; Rev 19:6, Rev 4:8, etc) Neither of these expressions are ever applied to “Jesus” or “Christ.” Yet, the word “almighty” is applied to Jehovah 42 other times, from the very first occurrence of that word to the very last occurrence:
GENESIS 17:1
“When Abram got to be ninety-nine years old, then Jehovah appeared to Abram and said to him: “I am God Almighty. . . ..”
REVELATION 21:22 (King James Version)
“And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty AND Lamb ARE the temple of it.” (It’s clear in this verse that the Lamb, [Jesus] is distinguished and separate from the “Almighty” here. Both of them “are” spoken of. It does not say that the Almighty and Jesus “is,” but uses the plural: “are.”)
Since “Jehovah” is specifically and without question called “God” a thousand times in scripture, and many more without the actual use of his name, the “burden of proof” clearly rests on anyone who wants to prove that the words “God Almighty” refers to anyone but Jehovah.“LORD GOD”:
The words “Lord God” never occur with reference to “Jesus,” although it does occur about 80 times with reference to Jesus’ Father, Jehovah. In all instances where the phrase occurs in the Greek scriptures, it is in reference to Jehovah, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. (Luke 1:32; 1 Peter 3:10-15; Revelation 11:17,19; 15:3; 16:7; 18:8; 21:11; 22:6)
The phrase “the Lord God” was used as a Greek substitute for the expression “Jehovah God”, that appears many times in the Old Testament. The expression “Lord God” occurs in many Bibles roughly 80 times. It never occurs with reference to the name “Jesus.” In fact, in the original languages, the expression found about 80 times is “Jehovah God.” The substitution of the word “Lord” and the removal of God’s name has confused many as to who this one is.
Likewise, with the phrases “the Lord our God” and “the Lord your God”: These phrases are always used in reference to Yahweh, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus. — Matthew 4:7 (Deuteronomy 6:16); Matthew 4:10 (Deuteronomy 6:13; 10:20); Matthew 22:37 (Deuteronomy 6:5); Mark 12:29 (Deuteronomy 6:4); etc.
Since the words “Lord God” are definitely used with reference to Jehovah many times and nowhere specifically clearly used with reference to “Jesus,” the burden of proof rests on those who wish to prove that this scripture refers to anyone other than Jehovah.“THE ONE WHO IS AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS TO COME”
As well, this verse (1:8) is speaking of “the One who is and who was and who is to come.” Just a couple verses before, at Revelation 1:5, we see greetings are given from the one “who is, and who was, and who is to come,” “and from Jesus Christ.” (NIV)
IN VERSE 5, IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THE ONE “who is, and who was, and who is to come” IS NOT JESUS CHRIST, because greetings are given from him AND from the seven spirits, AND from Jesus Christ. So, when the phrase “the one who is and who was and who is to come” OCCURS 3 VERSE LATER, IT WOULD SEEM THAT THIS AGAIN IS SPEAKING OF SOMEONE OTHER THAN JESUS.Or at the very least, it’s not at all clear that it’s speaking of Jesus.
Moreover, in the very next verse, the apostle John, says: “I . . . came to be in the isle that is called Patmos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus.” (Rev. 1:9) So John understood God to be separate and distinct from Jesus.
Also, compare Revelation 4:8 where it says: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.” (NIV) We notice the phrase “holy, holy, holy” occurs only one other time in the Bible at Isaiah 6:3, and there it is referring to “Jehovah.” (Compare Rev 11:17)I have a question for those that hold that Jesus being called the first and the last, and God being called the first and the last, mean they are the same one.
Of course, Jesus was called King of kings and so was nebuchadrezzar, both a couple of times. Anyway,1. How or in what way is God, the Father, the first and the last, (using scriptures)?
2. In what way is Jesus in scripture described as the first, and the last?I'll provide some starting scriptures:
GOD THE FATHER:
ISAIAH 44:6
““This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.”
ISAIAH 48:12
““Listen to me, O Jacob, and you Israel my called one. I am the same One. I am the first. Moreover, I am the last.”
ISAIAH 41:4
“Who has been active and has done [this], calling out the generations from the start? “I, Jehovah, the First One; and with the last ones I am the same.””
ISAIAH 46:4
“Even to [one’s] old age I am the same One; and to [one’s] gray-headedness I myself shall keep bearing up . . .” (Compare Mal 3:6)
Jehovah, as the Creator, and king of eternity, will always be and has always been. And no matter what time, or who is observing, he is the same one. It is in this sense of his always existing and not changing that he is the first and also the last.
We know that Jehovah God, the Almighty, the king of Eternity is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last–in that he has always existed, will always exist.JESUS
REVELATION 1:17-18
“And when I saw him [referring to Jesus], I fell as dead at his feet. And he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First [“First,” א?VgSyh; A, “Firstborn.”] and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hádes.”
In what way does the rest of the Bible and the context of this scripture demonstrate that Jesus is the “FIRST”?
REVELATION 1:5
“and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD,”. . . “
ACTS 26:23
“Christ was to suffer and, as the FIRST to be RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD, . . .”“
1 CORINTHIANS 15:20
“Christ has been RAISE UP FROM THE DEAD, THE FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep [in death].”
COLOSSIANS 1:18
“he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the BEGINNING, THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that he might become the one who is FIRST in all things;”
(Obviously, he wasn't the first to be resurrected from the dead, so this must be referring to him being th first to be resurrected in a specific way.
. Jesus was the first to be resurrected of those who would not have to die again. Also, he was the first to be raised as a spirit person.–1 Peter 3:18)
CONTEXT:
1. He is described, even in the same chapter of revelation (1:5), as being the first in that he was the first to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Col 1:18)
2. Looking at the context, the statement in question continues to say that he is the living one who “BECAME DEAD, BUT LOOK! I AM LIVING FOREVER AND EVER.” Based on the context and these other scriptures, we have to believe that Jesus is the “first” in this respect, in that he “became dead, but look” he is the “firstborn from the dead,” (Rev 1:5; Col 1:18) the “first to be resurrected from the dead” (Acts 26:23) to immortal spirit life–living “forever and ever” as the scripture says.
3. Further, we note something else at Revelation 2:8, where we are again told Jesus was the first and the last. Notice what it says and what is again connected to being first and last:
“These are the things that he says, ‘the First and the Last,’ who became dead and came to life [again],” (REVELATION 2:8)Does it not seem then that with reference to Jesus being the first (and the last) this is connected with his resurrection. Several scriptures indicate that he was the “first” to be resurrected from the dead to immortal spirit life. (Rev 1:5; Acts 26:23; 1 Cor 15:20; Col 1:18)
So How is he the “LAST”?
That too is covered in the rest of the statement. It says that he had been “given the keys of death and of hades.” The scriptures not only explain that Jesus was the first to be resurrected by Jehovah to immortal spirit life, but also that he was the “last” that Jehovah would personally resurrect this way. As it says, Jesus has been given the keys of death and hades, so if someone is locked in death, as it were, Jesus has been given the power to open that door, to resurrect them.
JOHN 5:21
“For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to.”
JOHN 6:40
“For this is the will of my Father, that everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him at the last day.””
JOHN 11:25
“Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. He that exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;”
ACTS 17:31
“Because he has set a day in which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has furnished a guarantee to all men in that he has resurrected him from the dead.”” (See also Dan 7:13,14; 2 Tim 4:1,2)
It seems that Jehovah has entrusted both the power of judging and resurrecting to Jesus. As Revelation 1:17,18 says, Jesus now has the keys of death and hades. He was the “last” to be resurrected by Jehovah, the responsibility of resurrecting now being given to Jesus. For all others of humanity, Jesus himself is “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25)According to the Bible, as a whole, and the actual context of what is said when Jesus is referred to as first and last, does it not seem that Jesus was the first to be resurrected by Jehovah to immortal spirit life and he was also the last to be resurrected by Jehovah, since Jehovah has entrusted him with the power of judging and resurrecting?
Can anyone argue against this?
Why is it no trinitarian ever wants to discuss with me why Jesus is called first and last and why his Father is called first and last?
A couple of people have said this alpha omega thing is the strongest trinity proof, encased nicely in a very hard to understand often misunderstood book.
But actually discussing it, is a different thing.
There is this guy I've been talking to in real life, who holds to the trinity and he mentioned this, in passing as proof of the trinity. I was hoping for someone to explain to me where I'm wrong in my thinking.
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