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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2007,06:35) Is 1:18 Somehow it seems that those who dont accept the diety of Jesus and the Oneness he has with the Father as God, look at him as a mere vessel that the Father worked through, somewhat of a puppet I suppose. An empty shell that God the Father filled.
Correct. And if that were true He would be no different from us, as we have the same Spirit. Scripture though tells us that in certain respects He is not at all like us at all:Colossians 2:9
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily formHebrews 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power…2 Corinthians 4:4
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.2 Corinthains 3:18
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.In Him
Quote David, how do you think we have love for our enemys. Its through the Spirit. the fruit of the Spirit. God says he has given us the Spirit of Love!
God is Love. God is Spirit. The Spirit of God is one with God, so the Spirit also loves!
I agree with everything you said up until those last five words. Going back for a second, notice that none of the scriptures you quoted show an intamacy between the holy spirit and mankind or people. There is no personal love between “it” and you. God uses it to express his love. God uses “his” holy spirit to do this. It, the holy spirit isn't spoken of in the way that Jesus and Jehovah are with reference to loving people. Sorry, but it isn't.Quote The Spirit of God is one with God, so the Spirit also loves!
My point was that you had said a few pages back:Quote A close examination of these scriptures shows intimacy of relationship with the Father.
I am merely pointing out that the scriptures do not speak in the same way with the holy spirit towards man, not in personal terms at all.
Nowhere do we find expressions like we do of Jesus or Jehovah and their love for each other or their love for mankind. Such scriptures just don't exist.david
WJ
Quote Rom 15:30
Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the “love of the Spirit”, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me;Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,Phil 2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,II Tim 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.I Pet 1:22
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:Quote What mere force or power can love? 
Please actually look at the scriptures you posted. Which of them speaks of the holy spirit loving you? Which of them speaks of the holy spirit loving God? Or loving Jesus?
Gal 5:22 for example, speaks of the gifts of the spirit, one of which is love. This doesn't speak of the holy spirit itself “loving,” but says that one of the fruits or results of having the holy spirit is love.
Actually, none of these scriptures speak of the holy spirit personally, as having intamacy between itself and God, Jesus or mankind, DO THEY?
If so, which one?
As far as I can tell, you just looked for scriptures with the word “love” and “holy spirit” in them.
So your question:
“What mere force or power can love?“
means very little.Please go to the Bible and see the love expressed from Jehovah and Jesus to each other, to us. Then, notice the lack of this when speaking of the holy spirit.
You stand corrected.
david
LOVE–WE ARE COMMANDED TO LOVE JEHOVAH AND JESUS. WHAT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
We are required to love God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ; but no one is ever required to love the holy spirit. No such precept is given, nor is there any reference to it. Why?LOVE–BETWEEN FATHER AND SON. WHAT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
In many passages, Jesus spoke of the relationship between himself and his Father. (Mat 26:39; Mark 13:32; 15:34; John 5:18,22, etc.) Where does Jesus speak of the holy spirit as a person? Where does he speak of the relationship between himself and the holy spirit? The holy spirit is absent from Christ’s teachings in general. Jesus makes many statements about himself and the Father. He doesn’t make similar statements about himself and the holy spirit.
While very much is said about how tenderly the Father loves the Son, and how devotedly the Son loves the Father, not one word is said about the Father's loving the holy spirit, nor that the Son loves the holy spirit, nor that the holy spirit loves either the Father or the Son. No such thought is ever expressed. How shall we account for this fact if the Father, Son, and the holy spirit, are three persons alike and equal?
How astonishing, we say, that so much is said about the mutual love between the Father and the Son, and yet, not one word is said about a similar love between the holy sprit and the other two persons! Why is it left out in this manner?LOVE–THE FATHER AND SON LOVE MAN. WHAT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT?
Furthermore, it is never said that the holy spirit ever loves man; yet it is quite frequently declared how greatly both the Father and the Son do love man. But no such thing is ever said of the holy spirit. How shall we account for this?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2007,06:35) 2. Whatever Jesus sees the Father do, “He does also”.
Hi WJ,
John 5:17 is an interesting verse, the connotation in what Yahshua said to the Jews was significant. This exegesis comes from Robertson's Word Pictures (NT) (Source):Quote John 5:17
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.Answered (apekrinato). Regular aorist middle indicative of apokrinomai, in John here only and verse John 5:19, elsewhere apekriqh as in verse John 5:11.
My Father (o pater mou). Not “our Father,” claim to peculiar relation to the Father.
Worketh even until now (ewv arti ergazetai). Linear present middle indicative, “keeps on working until now” without a break on the Sabbath. Philo points out this fact of the continuous activity of God. Justin Martyr, Origen and others note this fact about God. He made the Sabbath for man's blessing, but cannot observe it himself.
And I work (kagw ergazomai). Jesus puts himself on a par with God's activity and thus justifies his healing on the Sabbath.
Hope this blesses you.
In Him
Hi Is 1.18,
God rested from His creation on the Sabbath.
But that was not for His own benefit as the God of Israel does not need sleep or rest.
Jesus was given all authority so was Lord too of the Sabbath.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 13 2007,15:32) Quote WJ, “No offence. But first of all I resent the implication that I follow a mans teaching on this”.
I'm sorry if you took my statement to be personal. “Most” Christians follow their clergy. Surely this is a true statement just as all denominations have lies covered with truth.
What you believe is up to the Holy Spirit and you.
But let me say that I have found that those who are ready to confess their “years of experience” are the hardest ones to accept truth that goes against their way of thinking.
Seems that even though the Spirit has shown you the truth about the Trinity doctrine you refuse to completely let it go. Instead you twist the doctrine by accepting some truth that the Father is the head and has authority over His Son. This is exactly what the daughters of the harlot have done and is why their are so many daughters. Their is a daughter to accommodate just about every fleshly belief, as I said lies covered with SOME truth. Is this not your belief You believe in the Harlot's doctrine but yet cover it with truth that the three are NOT equal.
I have no intentions of trying to change your mind, no human can do that. As I said this is up to the Holy Spirit and you.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man thinketh that he is wise among you in this world, let him become a fool, that he may become wise.
If you love your neighbour as yourself then you do well.
kenrch
Rather than address the scriptures I give you, you fall into the same logic that all others do!
Just say you are right and I am wrong. And that makes you right!
And of course while we are at it lets sling a little mud and condescend saying…
Quote Seems that even though the Spirit has shown you the truth about the Trinity doctrine you refuse to completely let it go. Instead you twist the doctrine by accepting some truth that the Father is the head and has authority over His Son. This is exactly what the daughters of the harlot have done and is why their are so many daughters. Their is a daughter to accommodate just about every fleshly belief, as I said lies covered with SOME truth. Is this not your belief You believe in the Harlot's doctrine but yet cover it with truth that the three are NOT equal.
That of course is your opinion and not the scriptural view.In fact I dont see a scripture in your accusation above! Have you been hanging around NH and t8.
You know nothing about me accept what you have percieved as my view of the scriptures in light of the trinity, and you pass judgment on my relationship with the Lord!
Is this a common practice among Arian followers?
Then after you make all the accussations you say…
Quote If you love your neighbour as yourself then you do well. Which is a contradiction of what you just said!
WJ,“And of course while we are at it lets sling a little mud and condescend saying…”
You have been defending your new doctrine so long you believe that if anyone disagrees with you they intend to harm you in some way. In my case at least nothing could be further from the truth! I believe that if anyone believes that Jesus is the SON of God and died for our sins is a brother or sister.
As I said their will be no human who will change your mind in fact it is entirely up to you not even the Holy Spirit will make you follow His instructions.
But I'm curious how did you arrive at the fact that the Harlot's doctrine is flawed? How did you arrive at this partical truth that you have covered the lie with? What you are saying is that the Trinity doctrine is at the very least a lie which you corrected.
If I didn't love my neighbour as myself I wouldn't bother to speak to you at all. I won't argue with you about this, I don't believe this subject effects salvation at all. However it is important truth as all truth is important.
I pray that all come to the truth through the Spirit. I pray that all would reason and NOT stick to their guns.
Yes I'll say it again:
If you love your neighbour as yourself you do well.
Quote WJ, “And of course while we are at it lets sling a little mud and condescend saying…”
You have been defending your new doctrine so long you believe that if anyone disagrees with you they intend to harm you in some way. In my case at least nothing could be further from the truth! I believe that if anyone believes that Jesus is the SON of God and died for our sins is a brother or sister.
As I said their will be no human who will change your mind in fact it is entirely up to you not even the Holy Spirit will make you follow His instructions.
But I'm curious how did you arrive at the fact that the Harlot's doctrine is flawed? How did you arrive at this partical truth that you have covered the lie with? What you are saying is that the Trinity doctrine is at the very least a lie which you corrected.
If I didn't love my neighbour as myself I wouldn't bother to speak to you at all. I won't argue with you about this, I don't believe this subject effects salvation at all. However it is important truth as all truth is important.
I pray that all come to the truth through the Spirit. I pray that all would reason and NOT stick to their guns.
Yes I'll say it again:
If you love your neighbour as yourself you do well.
kenrch
I see you admit to slinging mud!
My sincere prayer for you is that you will get back on the right track from which you have strayed.
Remember the roots of your salvation. It appears you have slipped into the lies and deception of Arianism!
Heb 1:1-5
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Dont let the logic of men keep you from walking in the truth of the Son who is our great God and Saviour!Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;I Jn 5:
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Blessings
Quote But I'm curious how did you arrive at the fact that the Harlot's doctrine is flawed? How did you arrive at this partical truth that you have covered the lie with? What you are saying is that the Trinity doctrine is at the very least a lie which you corrected. kenrch
For the record, my trinitarian view hardly agree with the Niceen creed, or Athanasius!
As I said before you know little of my view!
You think all trinitarians are the same.
Well, I dont know anyone here that fully agree on a lot of things.
Also, because a man believes certain truths that may be found in another organization or religion dosnt make him part of that religion or organization.
For example.
Do you believe in the virgin birth, the ressurection of the dead, the accesion of Christ, the judgment seat, Etc Etc?
Well last I looked so does the so called harlot, does that make you a part of the system?
Blanket statements about a mans view holds no weight.
Quote You have been defending your new doctrine so long you believe that if anyone disagrees with you they intend to harm you in some way. In my case at least nothing could be further from the truth! I believe that if anyone believes that Jesus is the SON of God and died for our sins is a brother or sister. kenrch
No, you show insecurity in your faith by condescending on anyone who dosnt see your view or who are trinitarian!
I tried to discuss dialoge with scriptures and you take the route of accusations, instead of addressing the scriptures with scriptures that maybe hold your view!
Hi Is 1.18,
You say“Correct. And if that were true He would be no different from us, as we have the same Spirit. Scripture though tells us that in certain respects He is not at all like us at all:”
Man is lower than the angels according to God's order.
Jesus became just like us and calls us brothers leading weak men to safety.
He became, according to scripture, for his lifetime on earth, lower than even the angels.
So whatever he emptied himself of it would seem to be everything that made him greater than the angels.
So any suggestion that he came as God and worked as God means that God was made less than the angels which is nonsense.Heb 2
” 6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
JEHOVAH The Holy Spirit
Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD(JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) : for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.Rev 22:9 worship God.
Compare
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.With
Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)Compare
Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.With
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.2Sa 23:1 Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
2Sa 23:2 The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.2Sa 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears,..
Jehovah Is the Alpha and the Omega
In the verses below, Jehovah God states that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last:
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” (Revelation 1:8)
“I am the first and the last, and besides me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
Thus, there is only one Alpha and Omega, first and last, and it is Jehovah God.
Jesus Is the Alpha and the OmegaJesus makes it clear that he is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the Last:
“'Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end…I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to your people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and offspring of David, and the bright morning star.'” (Revelation 22:12-16)
These are the things that the Son of God says, he who has his eyes like a fiery flame, and his feet are like fine copper.” (Revelation 2:18)
And I turned to see the voice that was speaking with me…is eyes as a fiery flame; and his feet were like fine copper when glowing in a furnace…he laid his right hand upon me and said: “Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever.” (Revelation 1:12-18)
Conclusion
Jehovah God says he is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and is the only God, and Jesus says he is the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, so Jesus and Jehovah God are one and the same.
Isa 42:20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
ALPHA AND OMEGA–Who does this title belong to?
REVELATION 1:8
Revelation 1:8 states: “The Lord God says, ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the One who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty!’” (The New American Bible) Clearly, the reference here is to the Almighty, the Most High God Jehovah.
While Jesus Christ is referred to in the previous verse as “coming with the clouds,” the words of Revelation 1:8 and the surrounding verses show that he could not be “the Alpha and the Omega.” In the Scriptures, only the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ is spoken of as “the Lord God” and as the “Almighty.” Jesus Christ even refers to his Father as “my God.” (John 20:17; Rev. 3:12) According to Revelation 1:1, the revelation was given to Jesus Christ by God. Hence, we should expect the words of the Almighty God to be quoted in the account. The first reference to “the Alpha and the Omega” is manifestly an example of this.REVELATION 1:11
Certain scholars hold that Rev 1:11 is spurious. The additional occurrence of this phrase (Alpha and Omega) in the King James rendering of Revelation 1:11, does not receive support from some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in many modern translations. It does not appear in Revised Standard, New English, Jerusalem Bible, New American Bible, Challenor-Douay Version, etc.Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as “sons of God.” (Gal. 3:26; 4:6)
So this would contradict the rest of the Bible, if it was taken that Jesus was the alpha and omega of Rev 1:11.
Again, this indicates that the alpha and omega spoken of are God Almighty, not Jesus.THE BOOK OF REVELATION
When looking at this symbolic book, it's important to remember that a number of different ones are involved. GOD gave the revelation to JESUS who used his angel (messenger) to present it in signs to JOHN.
Sometimes, John himself is speaking. Sometimes, Jesus. Sometimes God.
They all seem to introduce themselves at the beginning or mention is made of them all.
If it's not made clear who is speaking, I would think it is better to consult the rest of scripture.We must remember this point: The first verse of Revelation shows that the revelation was given originally by God and through Jesus Christ, hence the one speaking (through an angelic representative) at times is God himself, and at other times it is Christ Jesus. (Re 22:8)
WHO IS THE ALMIGHTY IN THE BIBLE?
Thus Revelation 1:8 (RS) says: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” Although the preceding verse speaks of Christ Jesus, it is clear that in verse 8 the application of the title is to “the Almighty” God.About 42 other times in the Bible the title “Almighty” is used with reference to the Father, God. It is nowhere else used with reference to Jesus! This is a strong indication that this verse is speaking of the Father. Think about that: 42 other times, the word “Almighty” is used in connection with the Father, Jehovah God. And then we have this verse, we are told that the Alpha and Omega is also the “Almighty” and “God.” We know that different ones speak in this book. There is really no way to conclude anything other than this: Jehovah God is the Alpha and Omega referred to here.
In this regard Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament (1974) observes: “It cannot be absolutely certain that the writer meant to refer to the Lord Jesus specifically here . . . There is no real incongruity in supposing, also, that the writer here meant to refer to God as such.”
And in view of the rest of the Bible, that must in fact, be the case.
REVELATION 21:6
The title occurs again at Revelation 21:6, and the following verse identifies the speaker by saying: “Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I shall be his God and he will be my son.” Inasmuch as Jesus referred to those who are joint heirs with him in his Kingdom as “brothers,” not “sons,” the speaker must be Jesus’ heavenly Father, Jehovah God.—Mt 25:40; compare Heb 2:10-12.REVELATION 22:12 (TODAY’S ENGLISH VERSION)
It's clear that some Bibles want this to be Jesus. At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it.REVELATION 22:13
The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation.
–Verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John,
–verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus,
–the first part of verse 17 is credited to “the spirit and the bride,”
–and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself.
“The Alpha and the Omega” of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God.
As I said before:
“The expression, “Look! I am coming quickly,” in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as “coming” to execute judgment. (Compare Isa 26:21) Malachi 3:1-6 speaks of a joint coming for judgment on the part of Jehovah and his “messenger of the covenant.””
Of course, the coming judgment will be expressed by Jehovah God through his Son, for the apostle also says: “This will be in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind.” (Rom. 2:5-10,16)At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person, does it? (Heb. 3:1)
The title “the Alpha and the Omega” carries the same thought as “the first and the last” and “the beginning and the end” when these terms are used with reference to Jehovah. Before him there was no Almighty God, and there will be none after him. He will bring to a successful conclusion the issue over Godship, forever vindicated as the one and only Almighty God.
ISAIAH 44:6
““This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, ‘I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.”Quote (david @ Jan. 15 2007,05:56) The title “alpha and omega” belongs to Jehovah God Almighty. Does anyone disagree?
If so, explain.
Yes, I disagree. I'll begin working on my reply.Quote No words with more than 3 syllables? I know it's a challenge, but if anyone is smart enough to do it….
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2007,22:47) Quote WJ, “And of course while we are at it lets sling a little mud and condescend saying…”
You have been defending your new doctrine so long you believe that if anyone disagrees with you they intend to harm you in some way. In my case at least nothing could be further from the truth! I believe that if anyone believes that Jesus is the SON of God and died for our sins is a brother or sister.
As I said their will be no human who will change your mind in fact it is entirely up to you not even the Holy Spirit will make you follow His instructions.
But I'm curious how did you arrive at the fact that the Harlot's doctrine is flawed? How did you arrive at this partical truth that you have covered the lie with? What you are saying is that the Trinity doctrine is at the very least a lie which you corrected.
If I didn't love my neighbour as myself I wouldn't bother to speak to you at all. I won't argue with you about this, I don't believe this subject effects salvation at all. However it is important truth as all truth is important.
I pray that all come to the truth through the Spirit. I pray that all would reason and NOT stick to their guns.
Yes I'll say it again:
If you love your neighbour as yourself you do well.
kenrch
I see you admit to slinging mud!
My sincere prayer for you is that you will get back on the right track from which you have strayed.
Remember the roots of your salvation. It appears you have slipped into the lies and deception of Arianism!
Heb 1:1-5
1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?
5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
Dont let the logic of men keep you from walking in the truth of the Son who is our great God and Saviour!Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;I Jn 5:
19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Blessings
WJ,As I said I'm not trying to change your mind. There is no human on this earth that will do that, only the Holy Spirit will change your mind if we can get past our pride.
Don't waste your time trying to intimidate me to join your argument. I'm finished with you, I think
Oh BTW:
If you LOVE your neighbour as yourself you do well.
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