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Hi H,
When the bible speaks of repentance it is in relationship to God.
I do not mind your constant abuse but you will have to answer for very accusation someday.Nick, I posted a line and went and removed it. Even though it was true, I should not have posted it. Forgive me. That was the man in me that allowed for such a thing to be posted.
To Heiscoming and Nick,
This is me budding in,
I have noticed on this thread that sometimes I have gone pages talking with someone thinking they understand what I am saying or I think I understand what they are saying (such as with Nick and myself) only to find out I don't or they don't.
Due to the nature of the forum, things aren't always exactly totally clear. Misunderstandings are easier on here. Jumping to conclusions is also dangerous, as Nick knows. Once I asked him about the book he was reading in the picture (his avatar) and he jumped to the crazy conclusion that I cracked into a private website about him. He was quite mad, because it was supposed to be a PRIVATE website, and suddenly someone had access to it that shouldn't have, he thought. But a moment later, he realized the misunderstanding and apologized. So before jumping to conclusions, always realize our own imperfections. Always realize that mistakes lie on both sides, as both sides are imperfect. “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
Even if Nick had not actually done anything wrong, he somehow angered H or hurt him…emotionally. (chuckle) So really, Nick could have quite easily just apologized and made the whole thing go away in a second, by wronging himself, by taking the bullet.
Similarly, Heiscoming could have not pushed this, and not been paranoid about not having access for three days.t8 or Nick,
Just out of curiousity, when Nick or an Admin edits something, is it just as when one of us edits something, so that we know there has been an edit?david
Dear David,
There is no misunderstanding. This has been going on for some time. Nick has done things that are not beneficial for the faith and it has happened more then once. The answer I want is who is responsible for the editing. I even went back to make sure as to what I said was removed at the time of the mishap, and I cannot find it.
The problem is if this man who covers the pages of this forum with his word is not standing in the faith, yet claims he is, his influence to those who believe his words can cause many to stumble in the faith. And what makes it even more tragic is he cannot or will not admit when he has done wrong. So that is why I gave him the warning. I did it pm as to not embarress him, but instead he chose to embarress himself by posting it himself. That just goes to show how his ego is in control of the man. He does not think before he leaps. Thus, what better time to expose him for what he is, a man who has not been saved, but poses as one.
As to my warning, it was not mallicious in nature. I just told him that if he lied again, I would make sure all knew about it.
Hi H,
If you do not know and cannot prove something for which none of us bears responsibilty,.why would you still ascribe condemnation and continue to judge unwisely?Let me add up some of the things you have judged me falsely for……laziness, lies, being a false prophet, false teaching, being a wolf in sheeps clothing, having my own church and my own gospel, deceit…
Why keep putting coals on your own head?
MATTHEW 18:15-17
““Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.”So, there's several steps here. Due to the fact that there is no congregation here, I'm not sure how this Bible principle can be followed. You are on your own.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 18 2006,02:55) Hi H,
If you do not know and cannot prove something for which none of us bears responsibilty,.why would you still ascribe condemnation and continue to judge unwisely?Let me add up some of the things you have judged me falsely for……laziness, lies, being a false prophet, false teaching, being a wolf in sheeps clothing, having my own church and my own gospel, deceit…
Why keep putting coals on your own head?
You have them all right except for the laziness. By not doing the study was not laziness, and if you reread the post, it is more ego or outright refusal. At least that is what I meant to say and am sorry if you misunderstood. If you reread it, I said I did not believe you are lazy with the amount of time you spend spreading the doctrine of Nick.As for trying to prove your lying, unless I had the access to the forum formatting, and if the deletion or editing can be retraced, you are most likely right. I cannot really prove it other then my word and just maybe some others. But I will not drag anyone else into this. I will continue shooting holes in the doctrine of Nick using the Word of God. That will be more then enough. Those on the forum now know who and what you are about Nick. You must not be saved and yet you pose as one who is. If you were saved, you would know the things of God.
As for putting coals on the head, I think that is exactly what you did by putting my PM to you on the forum.
Why will you not put it all on the cross Nick? What are you holding onto? Ask for forgiveness and ask Jesus to come into your heart. If you do this and mean it with all of your heart, he will come. Don't continue to fight against him, fight for him.
Quote (david @ Sep. 18 2006,03:05) MATTHEW 18:15-17
““Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.”So, there's several steps here. Due to the fact that there is no congregation here, I'm not sure how this Bible principle can be followed. You are on your own.
Thank you David for this post. I believe that is exactly what I did and Nick proved his constitution by posting the PM instead of talking with me. I was going to post the message on the forum, but did not as to not embarress him. So I PM'ed him instead. Yet, the reason why I was going to post it in the first place is because this is not the first altercation with this man. Yet, he cannot see that he does anything wrong. Now, if a man is saved, will not the Holy Spirit convict the man? And will not the man repent? He has done nothing but argue he has done nothing wrong. How many convicted of crime do the same? They will say they are innocent even if there is video showing them doing a crime.Quote (t8 @ Sep. 17 2006,10:38) To kenrch. Quote (kenrch @ Sep. 18 2006,01:23) The sin is to not conceal the trust of another brother.
From what I can see, the sin if you want to call it that, is that Nick told it to the church. I personally am not convinced that it is a sin to tell the church however. But I remain open to that possibility, but so far scripture does allow us to tell it to the church. Is telling the church a breach of confidence, or is it really designed to help the person who sinned against you?Matthew 18:15-17
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.Now to some, telling the church may be considered a breach of confidence, but scripture says otherwise doesn't it? Also, we know the problems of sexual molestation in some so-called churches have been protected because people didn't want to probably breach confidence or give their church a bad name. That is how so many weirdos are able to hide in churches. But scripture is clear that we can expose people if we see them sin. It even gives a guideline on what to do. Nick obviously believes that H has sinned against him by slandering him or saying thigns that are not true about him.
So, if we condemn Nick for telling it to the Church, then are we also guilty for condemning him, for also telling him he is a sinner to the Church?
I honestly cannot follow the reasoning. If we judge Nick for what he did, are we not also condemning ourselves for not confronting Nick first on his so-called sin, and then confronting him with 2 or 3 witnesses before telling it also to the Church?
I will call a spade a spade, but I am not convinced that it is a spade.
Sorry about that but I cannot jump on the bandwagon and pull a brother down. I am not convinced of the reasoning given to condemn him.
I would hope that if Nick was convinced that he was wrong that he would apologise. But it is unreasonable to ask someone to apologise for something that is not wrong.
If it was me being judged I would apologise if I knew it were wrong. But I would have to know that it was wrong. And I think that anyone else would also have to know what the sin was before they apologised.
E.g., if I asked you to apologise for condemning Nick for revealing something to the church, (even though we are told that we can do that in scripture), would you apologise?
Yes or No?
It may turn out that you may have to apologise to Nick for accusing him of sin, if scripture tells him that he can reveal it to the Church.
If this is the case, would you be willing to apologise?
That is just the point t8 Nick has a problem with pride and will never admit he is wrong. You being a close friend of Nick will never side against him! The truth is Nick did not follow scripture if indeed he thought he was being verbly abused.Will I apologize if I did wrong —check the record– I have apologized a number of times because the Holy Spirit convicts me to do so! If Nick doesn't know he has done wrong then he has no conscience.
1Ti 4:2 through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;
Why is it so hard for Nick to apologize! There is no doubt that Nick did wrong YOUR rule says that the PM is to be private. Nick did not have H's permission to make the PM public! It's pretty simple no need to complicate things it's black and white PRIDE is the issue. NICK HAS A PROBLEM WITH PRIDE! The rule is clear what Nick did is clear so what is the problem other than Nick won't apologize.
As for you t8 I'm really disappointed. You see nothing wrong in Nick's behaviour?
Quote In any case, heiscomingintheclouds made a threat (whether good or bad) to make it public and Nick responded by making it public thereby nullifying the power of the threat. So it also benefited Nick……t8 Now, as far as I am concerned, the only thing I did was warn Nick that I would expose him to all if he lies again. Now, to me, that sounds more like a brother giving a warning to one who has done wrong before so he may avoid doing it again.
I didn't say that I would pray lightning come and strike him down. I didn't say I would cause physical harm in any way. So what is the threat that you are referring to t8? That I will expose Nick? Or is it that I will be doing the Job of moderator and watching his every move. Which is it T8, I would like to know?
Hi f4y,
Are you not yet cloaked with the robe of righteouness of the Son of God?Lk 15
” 22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: “I hope Frank, that the robe of righteousness Nick speaks of is that of Christ and not the same robe he professes to wear. He proclaims righteousness, but has not the slightest inkling of what it means. For there is the righteousness of the saved man and there is the righteousness of the unsaved man. Nick has revealed to all what robe he wears. Beware of the robes of the Pharacees and the Seducees.
Dear Nick and heiscomingintheclouds,
I felt compelled to share something with you two that I believe lies at the heart of your dispute. I am not really aware of all the facts of who wronged who or how exactly the wrong was committed, however, I don't think that matters for me to relay my point.
Please understand that I love both of you as a brother in Christ and that I mean only to share my observations and truly do not wish to grieve either of you.
Both of you have a disposition about you that is somewhat aggressive. In an online forum only words are seen. Body language and tone of voice can never be observed to help complete the communication process. I am not inclined to believe that either of you are necessarily purposefully trying to be aggressive, because as you type you may indeed not feel you are being so. Unfortunately, that feeling or attitude will never be displayed in your writings without extra care each time you correspond with someone.
I believe that you both, perhaps unintentionally, provoke each other, in particular by the clashing of your aggressive personality types. (or the perceived aggression through lack of tact)
Personally, I have never felt that either of you have made me feel belittled, but as I read posts that both of you make to others and to each other it sometimes comes off the wrong way. Instead of gently and meekly correcting or instructing with patience, both of you at times appear to be rather accusatory. This automatically sets an adversarial tone to the rest of the thread.
Even, if you are correct and are properly calling a spade a spade and are rightly dividing truth, the result is that you harden the heart of the individual you are attempting to correct and it can end up profiting little to nothing.
II Timothy 2:23-26
23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
I personally have learned a lot from both of you, but the benefit of your knowledge to both forum old timers and new comers would be greatly increased if you both would approach your responses with an effort towards meekness.
Is there ever a time for a strong rebuke? Of course, there is!
Yet, I think that more often than not the meek approach is usually what will be the most beneficial and when in doubt, should be the default method.
I apologize, in advance, if either of you feel that I have spoken out of line.
In Him,
Mercy
To heiscomingintheclouds.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 19 2006,13:34) Quote In any case, heiscomingintheclouds made a threat (whether good or bad) to make it public and Nick responded by making it public thereby nullifying the power of the threat. So it also benefited Nick……t8 Now, as far as I am concerned, the only thing I did was warn Nick that I would expose him to all if he lies again. Now, to me, that sounds more like a brother giving a warning to one who has done wrong before so he may avoid doing it again.
I didn't say that I would pray lightning come and strike him down. I didn't say I would cause physical harm in any way. So what is the threat that you are referring to t8? That I will expose Nick? Or is it that I will be doing the Job of moderator and watching his every move. Which is it T8, I would like to know?
Threat: “an indication or warning of probable trouble”.You said that you would warn him, which if you think about it is trouble for him if what you say is true. That is one definition of a threat.
When a storm comes you warn people to help them. When you want to expose someone or embarrass them, that can be called a threat.
I don't have a problem with threatening to expose a lie or a liar. No problem at all. You just have to prove that the person is a liar.
How can I judge when I haven't seen the evidence?
To Kenrch.
Quote That is just the point t8 Nick has a problem with pride and will never admit he is wrong. You being a close friend of Nick will never side against him! The truth is Nick did not follow scripture if indeed he thought he was being verbly abused. What scripture are you talking about?
Quote Will I apologize if I did wrong —check the record– I have apologized a number of times because the Holy Spirit convicts me to do so! If Nick doesn't know he has done wrong then he has no conscience. 1Ti 4:2 through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;
Apologise to Nick for accusing him of breaking scripture when he really just told the Church as Paul instructed.
Quote Why is it so hard for Nick to apologize! There is no doubt that Nick did wrong YOUR rule says that the PM is to be private. Nick did not have H's permission to make the PM public! It's pretty simple no need to complicate things it's black and white PRIDE is the issue. NICK HAS A PROBLEM WITH PRIDE! The rule is clear what Nick did is clear so what is the problem other than Nick won't apologize. Most of the message is to give confidence to the member that their PMs cannot be read by anyone but themselves. Not even Admins can read them. In other words private in that they are not accessible by anyone but yourself. The last sentence is the only thing that I can see that might stick. It says: “Please respect the privacy of other members at all times.” And there is wisdom to that. We don't want people exposing the address, or details of people's private lives on a publicly viewed forum for obvious reasons.
But Nick chose to reveal what H said as he obviously considered it slander.
I am going to be extreme here: If someone confessed to a future terrorist plot via a PM would you keep it private because of that last sentence in the PM screen? If someone threatened you on a PM. would you keep that private?
How far does one have to go before they can expose a PM?
What if someone slandered you and said they were going to make it public but threatened to expose you the next time round? Would that be enough for you? Well my guess is this is how Nick sees it.
What wins out in this case, the rule of keeping the PM private or exposing a sin to the Church as Paul instructed.
I mean are we to be like the Pharisees and condemn Jesus for healing on the Sabbath?
Sometimes you have to make a choice do you not? Respect the law, or do good.
Quote As for you t8 I'm really disappointed. You see nothing wrong in Nick's behaviour? That is fine. I myself care what God thinks not man.
If man condemns and accuses, then I surely need good evidence before I pass the same judgement. I personally don't think God wants me to condemn Nick or throw the first stone.
It is not because it is Nick. I would think the same if it were you being accused.
My personal opinion Kenrch is that you should apologise to Nick for your behaviour. You are accusing him, yet he exposed possible slander in a manner that Paul instructed. “Tell it to the Church”.
That is my honest opinion.
Jesus said of an adulterous woman, “he who has no sin, cast the first stone”. Yet what exactly is Nick guilty of? It sounds like it was worse than that womans adultery as the stones are flying.
I can see that you are angry Kenrch and you are throwing stones at Nick because you think that he has sinned. But I am not emotionally caught up like you are.
I am standing back and trying to be wise about this. I am not going to pass a judgement that God promises will be the measure that he will judge me by. I am not mad enough to say flag my judgement, I want to crucify this guy.
Yes if Nick has sinned he should aplogise as anyone should. But I still don't even know what the sin is. Can you understand that this is important? If we cannot judge the affairs of the Church correctly, then how are we going to judge angels?
Thanks for your post Mercy.
It is good to be calm and not get caught up in the heat of this moment.
You have acted wisely and instructed with care.
God bless you.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 19 2006,09:47) To Kenrch. Quote That is just the point t8 Nick has a problem with pride and will never admit he is wrong. You being a close friend of Nick will never side against him! The truth is Nick did not follow scripture if indeed he thought he was being verbly abused. What scripture are you talking about?
Quote Will I apologize if I did wrong —check the record– I have apologized a number of times because the Holy Spirit convicts me to do so! If Nick doesn't know he has done wrong then he has no conscience. 1Ti 4:2 through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;
Apologise to Nick for accusing him of breaking scripture when he really just told the Church as Paul instructed.
Quote Why is it so hard for Nick to apologize! There is no doubt that Nick did wrong YOUR rule says that the PM is to be private. Nick did not have H's permission to make the PM public! It's pretty simple no need to complicate things it's black and white PRIDE is the issue. NICK HAS A PROBLEM WITH PRIDE! The rule is clear what Nick did is clear so what is the problem other than Nick won't apologize. Most of the message is to give confidence to the member that their PMs cannot be read by anyone but themselves. Not even Admins can read them. In other words private in that they are not accessible by anyone but yourself. The last sentence is the only thing that I can see that might stick. It says: “Please respect the privacy of other members at all times.” And there is wisdom to that. We don't want people exposing the address, or details of people's private lives on a publicly viewed forum for obvious reasons.
But Nick chose to reveal what H said as he obviously considered it slander.
I am going to be extreme here: If someone confessed to a future terrorist plot via a PM would you keep it private because of that last sentence in the PM screen? If someone threatened you on a PM. would you keep that private?
How far does one have to go before they can expose a PM?
What if someone slandered you and said they were going to make it public but threatened to expose you the next time round? Would that be enough for you? Well my guess is this is how Nick sees it.
What wins out in this case, the rule of keeping the PM private or exposing a sin to the Church as Paul instructed.
I mean are we to be like the Pharisees and condemn Jesus for healing on the Sabbath?
Sometimes you have to make a choice do you not? Respect the law, or do good.
Quote As for you t8 I'm really disappointed. You see nothing wrong in Nick's behaviour? That is fine. I myself care what God thinks not man.
If man condemns and accuses, then I surely need good evidence before I pass the same judgement. I personally don't think God wants me to condemn Nick or throw the first stone.
It is not because it is Nick. I would think the same if it were you being accused.
My personal opinion Kenrch is that you should apologise to Nick for your behaviour. You are accusing him, yet he exposed possible slander in a manner that Paul instructed. “Tell it to the Church”.
That is my honest opinion.
Jesus said of an adulterous woman, “he who has no sin, cast the first stone”. Yet what exactly is Nick guilty of? It sounds like it was worse than that womans adultery as the stones are flying.
I can see that you are angry Kenrch and you are throwing stones at Nick because you think that he has sinned. But I am not emotionally caught up like you are.
I am standing back and trying to be wise about this. I am not going to pass a judgement that God promises will be the measure that he will judge me by. I am not mad enough to say flag my judgement, I want to crucify this guy.
Yes if Nick has sinned he should aplogise as anyone should. But I still don't even know what the sin is. Can you understand that this is important? If we cannot judge the affairs of the Church correctly, then how are we going to judge angels?
HELLO!Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault BETWEEN THEE AND HIM ALONE: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Again! If Nick though he was wronged by H then he should have followed SCRIPTURE Matt18:15–Between Nick and H alone! Not the world therefore this “TEACHER” either doesn't know scripture as YOU or just plain doesn't care what scripture says to do! Should we follow scripture t8? Or because he is your friend just overlook the matter?
AGAIN I CALL FOR AN APOLOGY FROM NICK. IS IT THAT HARD TO ADMIT WHEN ONE IS WRONG AS IN THIS CASE! IT IS FOR NICK BECAUSE HE IS BOUND BY PRIDE AND REFUSES TO LET GO NO MATTER WHAT! NOW ISN'T THIS THE TRUTH?
TELL ME T8 IS THIS THE TRUTH AND IF YOU DON'T THINK SO THEN TELL ME “WHAT” YOU BELIEVE TO BE TRUTH (if you can)!!!
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