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Hi Sol,
And to become like Christ because of the Spirit of Christ living in you in you you must repent and be reborn from above as Paul was.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,20:43) Hi Sol,
And to become like Christ because of the Spirit of Christ living in you in you you must repent and be reborn from above as Paul was.
Yes.And then walk The Way as taught by Christ.
My concern is that Paul strayed a bit in his teachings.
It is NOT Christ I take issue with, it is Paul and the greeks that followed.
James the Just to me, based on scripture and historic evidence, butted heads with Paul many times.
Hi SOL,
Paul is a fine servant and approved of God who provided signs and wonders through his work but you prefer others who align with you? Those who butt heads with the one who had Christ within him butt heads with Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,20:53) Hi SOL,
Paul is a fine servant and approved of God who provided signs and wonders through his work but you prefer others who align with you? Those who butt heads with the one who had Christ within him butt heads with Christ.
even James?Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 21 2008,00:48) Give me a break. The ugliest exchanges I have seen in my time at Heaven.net have been in the last 6 months, and you kejonn were in the thick of it. Get off your holier than thou pedestal and quit with this 'them and us' nonsense!
I challenge you to show me.Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 21 2008,20:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,20:53) Hi SOL,
Paul is a fine servant and approved of God who provided signs and wonders through his work but you prefer others who align with you? Those who butt heads with the one who had Christ within him butt heads with Christ.
even James?
Hi SOL,
You cannot divide James or Pul
from each other
or Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 22 2008,05:34) Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 21 2008,20:56) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,20:53) Hi SOL,
Paul is a fine servant and approved of God who provided signs and wonders through his work but you prefer others who align with you? Those who butt heads with the one who had Christ within him butt heads with Christ.
even James?
Hi SOL,
You cannot divide James or Pul
from each other
or Christ.
I don't really think I am dividing anyone.It is their own actions, teachings and reactions to each other that do that.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,13:06) Hi Sol,
Prove it
I'll help. Paul says- Rom 3:27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.Gal 3:2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Did you suffer so many things in vain–if indeed it was in vain?
Gal 3:5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?To which James responds
- Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
Jas 2:18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”Jas 2:20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Hi KJ and SOL,
Paul showed the saved Jews that previous their dependance of salvation through works of the Law was useless. Ticking boxes does not require faith and it is faith that God requires.James, however, speaks to the saved to demand works that show the grace they have been given. God requires a return on the investment of Grace He has given those in Christ as Mt 25 shows.
14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
19After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
20And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
21His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
22He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
23His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
24Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
That is the necessary outworking of the faith of the saved.
Different issues entirely.Let's get mores specific Nick:
Paul: Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.James: Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
The word that Paul uses for “apart” here in the NASB is “choris” which means
- chōris
kho-rece'
Adverb from G5561; at a space, that is, separately or apart from (often as preposition): – beside, by itself, without.Therefore, Paul is saying that faith alone justifies, while James says that works and faith justify.
As you can see, they do not agree with one another. Who is right? Well, since Jesus said to keep the commandments, who agrees more with Jesus?
Hi KJ,
Again two different applications.
Do not be confused by the same word JUSTIFICATION being used.
Paul refers to the jewish Law and inheritance through it by faith for the Chosen people.
James refers to the fruit required as works by the followers of Jesus.Different applications but bound together by faith because salvation among those in Christ is worked out in faith through appointed good works done in the Spirit of God.
Hi KJ,
Jesus replied to the Jews in their questioning of the detail of their Law.
But we are under the law of love, the law of the Spirit.I guess you are not looking closely enough to see how James is specifically in opposition to Paul here. Look in the very next chapter where Paul says:
- Rom 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousnessIsn't it ironic that in the very same chapter where James said works and faith that he also addressed the above passage by Paul?
- Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.As you can see, two items mentioned by Paul, and James teaches something different. Paul says Abraham was justified by faith while James says his faith allowed him to carry out the works, and by his works was he justified. So how do you compare Rom 4:2 vs Jas 2:21? Rom 4:5 vs Jas 2:24?
Hi KJ,
So faith is the issue with God at all levels
for Jews for inheritance
as shown by the proven faith of Abraham
and for the reborn sons
as the fruit of the investment of the Spirit.Those who doubt can expect nothing from the Lord.
Heb 4
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.Paul sponsoring the Nazarite vow?
http://www.paul-the-temple-and-new-covenant-sacrifices.info/Paul-sp….ws.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite
Paul pretending to be a jew for the jew and being a gentile for the gentiles.
Paul says
Ephesians 1:1
“Paul, an apostle of Yahshua by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus,”
Jesus says
Revelation 2
To the church in Ephesus
1″To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: 2I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.Paul says
2 Timothy 1
15You know that everyone in the province of Asia has deserted me
An account of Paul at Ephesus
Acts 19
Paul in Ephesus
8Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God. 9But some of them became obstinate; they refused to believe and publicly maligned the Way.
(Or maligned HIS way?)
Another Ephesian reaction to Paul
Acts 21:27-29
And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him. crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the Law, and this place: and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.” (For they had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)
Paul to the Ephesians: “I am an apostle of Jesus”
The Ephesians to Paul: “No you're not.”
Jesus to the Ephesians: “Well done!”
Hi SOL,
Paul the chameleon.
So loving as to use whatever he had from his background to reach Jews and gentiles alike.
Of course he upset the jewish religious folk who hate God and God's servants.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 21 2008,17:35) Hi SOL,
Paul the chameleon.
So loving as to use whatever he had from his background to reach Jews and gentiles alike.
Of course he upset the jewish religious folk who hate God and God's servants.
Why would you be so quick to say the people that the people who were upset by Paul hated God? I saw the other day where you didn't seem to care for Billy Graham (but I missed why), yet Mr. Graham has done much for the kingdom IMHO. Do you hate God because you don't care for Billy Graham?
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