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Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 19 2008,17:59) The point Tow brought up was this: Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 20 2008,08:34) Really, you Christians are showing your true colors. Its a good thing WWJD faded out because its quite apparent many Christians don't know what Jesus would do. Or maybe this would be his behavior?
I addressed it, spelling out some home truths for him. I estimate that I have addressed scriptural issues in perhaps 90% of my 2000+ posts Kejonn. Your accusation is not fair nor accurate.
Is it? Yes, your were very scriptural in your replies before but since you have come back in lately that has not been the case. For instance, you went after Stu for grammar a few days back. And now all you seem to want to do is talk about others. So your past is one thing, your present is another. Did someone hack into your account?Quote Is it? Yes, your were very scriptural in your replies before but since you have come back in lately that has not been the case. For instance, you went after Stu for grammar a few days back.
Relax Kevin. The grammar comment started as a light hearted dig, that was apparently taken the wrong way.Quote And now all you seem to want to do is talk about others.
Hmmm…if that is true then it seems to me we are two peas in a pod there…..Then show me. I admit I mention Ken but he has made it a point to bring me up unsolicited into his posts.
Show you? Okay.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,10:19) Besides, what does it matter to you Is 1:18? What are you people? You seem so concerned about the belief of others on here. Why? As I told Ken, my faith is my business. If you don't like what I believe, who cares? And who cares if I come back and post 100 posts a day? Is it any concern of yours? Strangely, you've not been on here much lately but what time you have you've been going after people, not debating subjects. What exactly is your goal here?
Seriously folks, quit focusing on what people believe and make a case for what you believe.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,10:22) Your last post proves my point. You attack Tow's attitude rather than addressing the points he brought up. Do that instead if you have a strong case. You remind me of a politician who would rather sling mud than address the issues. If people could do that, perhaps you'd be able to help Mandy, Tim, and I see the same truth you do.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,11:31) Is it? Yes, your were very scriptural in your replies before but since you have come back in lately that has not been the case. For instance, you went after Stu for grammar a few days back. And now all you seem to want to do is talk about others. So your past is one thing, your present is another. Did someone hack into your account? It appears that you have been addressing my attitude rather than the point I brought up (about Towshab's modus operandi) in these posts Kejonn. Wasn't that what you accused me of?
I feel like your giving me one of those 'I feel like don't even know you any more man, what's happaned to you lately' conversations…
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,12:30) Then show me. I admit I mention Ken but he has made it a point to bring me up unsolicited into his posts.
What is the point. What matters is that you deny Jesus is the Messiah. That is the whole of the matter. You have your way, you can post all you want about Jesus not being the Messiah so why do you waste your time with criticism of others.Please continue to fulfill scripture! You no longer have to be a deceiver to do so. Which was the issue.
AGAIN that's over. let it go! Do your thing! Isn't that what you wanted?
Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 19 2008,19:59) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,12:30) Then show me. I admit I mention Ken but he has made it a point to bring me up unsolicited into his posts.
What is the point. What matters is that you deny Jesus is the Messiah. That is the whole of the matter. You have your way, you can post all you want about Jesus not being the Messiah so why do you waste your time with criticism of others.Please continue to fulfill scripture! You no longer have to be a deceiver to do so. Which was the issue.
AGAIN that's over. let it go! Do your thing! Isn't that what you wanted?
Show me which scripture I fulfill Ken. Can you?Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,13:41) Quote (kenrch @ Jan. 19 2008,19:59) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 20 2008,12:30) Then show me. I admit I mention Ken but he has made it a point to bring me up unsolicited into his posts.
What is the point. What matters is that you deny Jesus is the Messiah. That is the whole of the matter. You have your way, you can post all you want about Jesus not being the Messiah so why do you waste your time with criticism of others.Please continue to fulfill scripture! You no longer have to be a deceiver to do so. Which was the issue.
AGAIN that's over. let it go! Do your thing! Isn't that what you wanted?
Show me which scripture I fulfill Ken. Can you?
OK start with the new testament.
Hey some one had to be Judas. Guess what Game Over!
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 20 2008,09:53) Quote (Towshab @ Jan. 20 2008,08:34) Really, you Christians are showing your true colors. Its a good thing WWJD faded out because its quite apparent many Christians don't know what Jesus would do. Or maybe this would be his behavior?
I think people need to realise that Towshab's modus operandi was to write posts designed to antagonise others, to provoke them to anger (e.g. refer to his taunting posts in the 'Mandy' thread – pgs 23-26 in particular) and when Christians like Kenrch reacted in anger he would often follow up with comments like these:“Leave it to Ken to show the true nature of Christian love.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=190“Keep it up Ken. Right now, you're helping me in showing the true nature of Jesus. You are doing more damage to Christian faith than ever have. Thanks for the help.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=260Low grade behavior.
Towshab, I hope you keep your word and leave (unless, of course you write encouragingly – if you are capable of that.). The forum will be better off. You need to learn to show others some respect and not manipulate their emotions.
Hi Is 1.18,
The servant of division seemed to think this site was a aprt of the body of Christ and worked constantly to divide, aware of the truth spoken by Jesus that a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand.Rejection of Christ because of “christians” behavior?
None of us has to answer for anybody but ourselves. We all will answer for the times we caused others to stumble but those who choose to reject Christ do so at their own peril.
Wm
I was really hoping to one day actually discuss Isaiah 53 in much much greater detail.
I'm guessing I still will, but without the arguments against. I tend to dig much deeper whenever people challange me.
isaiah 1:18, every time I say something about Isaiah 53 referring to the Messiah, you respond: “No, that's incorrect,” ok?
Goodbye Tow.
Regarding the reason for leaving, if the Jews of today do not feel that God is important enough to go to people and talk about, what does that say? Yes, God had a fleshly people, but now he has a spiritual Israel. How will people put faith unless they hear? How will they hear without someone to preach?
Above all else, God is loving and just. He is now giving everyone the opportunity to hear the good news and repent. (Mat 24:14; mat 28:19,20)Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 20 2008,07:59) I see the HN believers have been dubbed the “fundies” over there… 
In my experience these new forums either take off or die a slow (and sometimes quick) death. There is a honeymoon period where everyone loves eachother, and think “our point of difference is that we are all truth seekers here and isn't it great that in this site everyone gets along”. The irony is this harmony is the eventual source of people losing interest in the site. It's contention that fuels enthusiam in visiting the forum usually, especially for men who are competitive by nature. Woman can survive on the nicites and platitudes for longer but men quickly bore of them and crave argument. I predict it won't be long until that site is just like this one, perhaps more acrimoneous. Either that or it will will die.
Interesting observations, Is 1:18Quote Oh, this Adieu makes me sad. I don't want you to leave because of me? …. I need to ask questions and find answers. But to do this, I need people who are objective in my life. What use is a religion if no one questions it? ….Don't the Christians want the JW's to question their religion?
Fine, I'll question your religion.
Mandy, I'm not sure how sad one should be when someone who's stated goal is to make people turn away from Jesus as the Messiah, and to disregard any Bible miracles as “stories”, etc.
Haven't been here a lot. How are you doing?
Quote Most will be happy to see you go, I'm sorry to say. He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does not gather with me scatters.–mat 12:30
Tow was clearly “against” Jesus.
How sad should we be to see someone who is against the son of God?
Or do you no longer have faith in this fundamental truth, because of him?
Either Tow is correct, or Jesus is. They cannot both be.
If Tow is correct, Jesus was a false messiah and liar.
If Jesus is correct, Tow is a stumbling block who is destroying your life and the lives of others.Goodbye mandy. While I'm glad I met you, I now wish you had never found this place.
david
Quote (david @ Jan. 20 2008,18:03) Goodbye mandy. While I'm glad I met you, I now wish you had never found this place.
Do you also wish that the JW's would have never come to my door and told me that the Trinity wasn't true? Because that was not a foundational truth that I had grown-up with! It's certainly was not something that believer's in my life at the time wanted me to embrace – but I did – praise God!It seems that those who hold strict belief systems do not want me to falter from them. But to which system of beliefs should I cling? To WJ's system? To Nick's system? To Tow's system? How about Stu's system? What about you, David? Should I become a JW and follow your system of beliefs?
I've been tempted to join the JW church, I must say. There are some dear ladies who come to my door on a routine basis. We have some wonderful talks. I've always admired the JW dedication and sense of family. To me, they seem more “Christian” (showing the fruits of the Spirit) than most denominations out there. Sure, maybe I'll just go sign-up tomorrow at a Kingdom Hall near me! Oh, but that wouldn't make Nick, WJ or Ken happy would it? Maybe they would be sorry that I'm talking to YOU? Well, you can't please everyone, can you?
I am glad I have found this place. I have been exposed to a variety of beliefs here and many good brother's and sister's. I'm thankful for you all.
Good to see you again, David.
Love,
MandyHi not3,
All I ask is that you treat scripture as Jesus did, the truth, and continue to obey it.
Do not be led into Tow's mind games as the mocker has no useful faith himself.
Soak in the scriptures and accept for now what is not yet understandable.The only problem I have with all of these posts that talk about mind games and attitudes is that not a single person actually spoke of the scriptural evidence Tow presented. What of that? What of the times he took the list of prophecies one finds on many sites on the net and showed where they were not really what they seemed to be? The biggest problem I see with this is that nobody here seems to be able to respond to that but instead to say he was playing games and being nasty. I will agree with you and say his approach was not very good-natured (I told him as much on my own site), but why is it no one was willing to address the OT passages he presented?
David, I would be very interested in you speaking with someone about Is 53. I'm not willing at this point because there are many different opinions. From what I understand there are even some Christians out there who don't believe it was Jesus (I don't know them off hand but I know I've heard that, I'll look).
I want to find Jesus definitively in the OT. He said scripture bore witness of him (John 5:39). Does this mean in a general overall sense of fulfillment — there are Christians who say he fulfilled the various feasts — or are there real passages that speak of him as he lived on earth? I don't want second coming excuses right now because I want to be able to focus on Jesus pre-resurrection, or even his death.
I'm sorry to ask these things, but if it had not been for Jesus, I do not know where I'd be today. It was him that brought me to a knowledge of God — though it was a trinity god at first — so that is why I feel one of his main purposes was to be that light to the nations the Jews never seemed to be. There are even some Jews who will admit that.
Quote (david @ Jan. 20 2008,00:40) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 20 2008,07:59) I see the HN believers have been dubbed the “fundies” over there… In my experience these new forums either take off or die a slow (and sometimes quick) death. There is a honeymoon period where everyone loves eachother, and think “our point of difference is that we are all truth seekers here and isn't it great that in this site everyone gets along”. The irony is this harmony is the eventual source of people losing interest in the site. It's contention that fuels enthusiam in visiting the forum usually, especially for men who are competitive by nature. Woman can survive on the nicites and platitudes for longer but men quickly bore of them and crave argument. I predict it won't be long until that site is just like this one, perhaps more acrimoneous. Either that or it will will die.
Interesting observations, Is 1:18
Perhaps it will do what you say IS, time will tell. However, the difference is we are not scared to talk about things over there. Over here all people want to do is attack others character if they don't believe a certain way. I had enough of that while I was in a church.If someone questions the bible over here, all they get is reprimands and excuses. None of us are children, we don't need this. If someone is not willing to actually get into why certain things may be the way they are, either say so or leave it alone. Don't respond with “It is written” because what is written in one place may not agree with what is written in another.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 20 2008,07:59) I see the HN believers have been dubbed the “fundies” over there…
I have to admit to being a little naive.
Someone please tell me what “fundies” are.Tim
A question's answer leads to another question's answer that leads to another question. Scholars cannot agree on everything. Sooner or latter YOU have to have Faith no matter what religion you find.
Some have lost their Faith because of these Doubting questions that don't seem to have answers. Some have actually experienced the power of God~ HIS Holy Spirit ~and have lost faith because of their doubt.
The natural man looks at these things and says “where's the proof, it doesn't make sense, it contradicts itself”
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.Are the above scriptures correct? I Pray NOT! It seems to be saying that their is NO use trying to “once again” renew some one who has tasted of God. Their is NO USE in telling them AGAIN of the principles of God and His Son. Because they have had a relationship with God by His Spirit.
This being true then why entertain their questions of doubt. Is their goal to “once again find Christ”? Or is it to instill doubt!
What answers do they have that you do not? They can say Jesus is not the Messiah and the “real Messiah is yet to come.
We say Jesus IS the Messiah who came in peace to save us from death. To give us more abundant life “the Joy of the Holy Spirit” and will come again to judge those who have tasted of the Lord and have REJECTED Him.
I really don't think Satan likes heaven net. Do you? He knows he has but a short time and is getting shorter and shorter. Which…for me is GREAT! Because the shorter his time the sooner Jesus will come.
What do the sign of these times say?
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.I can remember when a hand shake was as good as a contract drawn up by a lawyer. When you were only as good as YOUR WORD!
When the younger called their elder Sir and Mam. When it was against the law to swear in public.
When the atheist were NOT proud. And if you were a homosexual you were in the closet. When Good was GOOD and Bad was BAD.
And NOW Jesus is not the “real messiah”. He was married and had a child! He was not resurrected because they found His Bones! Antichrist are plentiful and proud!
They have come here to deceive and destroy your faith. Let them be a witness to you! One has said that their faith was gasping for air! That they can no longer believe unless the SEE!
They are on a WIDE path where there are many “theories” that leads to destruction.
Only by FAITH can you stay on the straight and narrow that leads to eternal life in God's kingdom.
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