Adam to Abraham

[NickHassan]

for 94

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
All men are judged.
Do you say Adam has just vanished and will not appear with the rest of his children?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2007,14:15)

Hi 94, All men are judged. Do you say Adam has just vanished and will not appear with the rest of his children?

Hi Nick:

The commandment to Adam from God was: Gen. 2:16
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:  
2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

When he sinned he died spiritually.  The commandment from God states: “FOR IN THE DAY THAT THOU EATEST THEREOF THOU SHALT SURELY DIE”.  When he died spiritually he and Eve knew that they were naked, they knew they were guilty of sin, but when they heard God coming instead of repenting the hid from God.  They had the opportunity to repent but they did not.

Gen. 3:8
And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.  
3:9
And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?  
3:10
And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.  
3:11
And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat ?

He died spiritually and the judgment given him by God was:
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;  
3:18
Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;  
3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

And so, Hebrews 9:27 states that it is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment.  Adam died spiritually and then received the judgment which included physical death.

But yes, I am saying that he is dead or eternally separated from God, but he did not have to destroyed in the lake of fire as will those who die in their sins today.  The judgment for sin is progressively worse the greater the revelation of God's plan for salvation.

God did not show us that Adam repented, but he did show us that Enoch repented and showed us that Noah and his family were saved by the ark which is symbolic of the ark today which is the body of Christ.

Rom 5:12
Wherefore *, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin(spiritual separation from God); and so death (spiritual separation from God) passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:  
5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. (this means that every transgression was not judged as it was under the law)
5:14
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses (nevertheless, although every transgression was not judged and a punishment pronounced, death or spiritual separation from God was predominant), even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.  

2Pe 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
You say
“He died spiritually”
” Adam died spiritually and then received the judgment which included physical death.”

Where is it written?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 11 2007,17:01)

Hi 94, You say “He died spiritually” ” Adam died spiritually and then received the judgment which included physical death.” Where is it written?

Hi Nick:

Did Adam sin?  And does sin cause spiritual death?

Ro 5:12
Wherefore *, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Ro 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Col 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Ge 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: FOR IN THE DAY THAT THOU EATEST THOU SHALL SHURELY DIE.  (God said in the day that ate he would die.  Adam did not die physically until 930 years later.)

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Your verses do not show spiriual death.
The spirit of natural man is of the breath of God and returns to God at death[Ecc12] intact and undiminished.

Adam died within one day in the sight of the Lord.
2Peter 3
8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2007,10:40)

Hi 94, Your verses do not show spiriual death. The spirit of natural man is of the breath of God and returns to God at death[Ecc12] intact and undiminished. Adam died within one day in the sight of the Lord. 2Peter 3 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Hi Nick:

I don't believe that the verses that you quoted justify your stance either, but I will post the following scripture and then if it does not satisfy you then we will just have to disagree.

How about this scripture:

Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

This indicates the soul that sins will die. It does not say any thing about the body.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,m
Indeed we were warned by Jesus about the second death.
Mt 10.28
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,09:10)

Hi 94,m Indeed we were warned by Jesus about the second death. Mt 10.28 28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Hi Nick:

Jesus said under the current covenant that the judgment would be withheld until the last days.  I will paste the scripture below:

Joh 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

This is what he said to those to whom the gospel is being preached today.  Those from creation unto his coming did not have the gospel preached to them.

This is what the Apostle Paul said about those who where a part of the Exodus:

1 Corinthians 10      
10:1
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;  
10:2
And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;  
10:3
And did all eat the same spiritual meat;  
10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.  
10:5
But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.  
10:6
Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.  
10:7
Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.  
10:8
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.  
10:9
Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.  
10:10
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.  
10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF WORLDS ARE COME.  

I have a question for you?  Are the souls of those who are walking around today with breath in their body but are practicing sin dead or alive to God?  And so, when Adam sinned was his soul dead or alive to God?  

Jesus paid the penalty that was due to mankind for the first death, but the second death is for those who rejected his Word and died in their sins.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
We do not have the right to add to scripture that the soul of Adam was dead when he was alive.
Indeed the judgement is at the end of the millenium and to all not found in the first resurrection.
The second resurrection is to that judgement of condemnation unto the second death for all not in the Son, unless they find mercy, having shown mercy as works done to the sons of God, the brothers of Jesus[mt25].

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,10:14)

Hi 94, We do not have the right to add to scripture that the soul of Adam was dead when he was alive. Indeed the judgement is at the end of the millenium and to all not found in the first resurrection. The second resurrection is to that judgement of condemnation unto the second death for all not in the Son, unless they find mercy, having shown mercy as works done to the sons of God, the brothers of Jesus[mt25].

Hi Nick:

Just answer the question. Is the soul of someone who is practicing sin dead or alive to God? Yes or No.

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
What does scripture STATE?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,12:18)

Hi 94, What does scripture STATE?

Hi Nick:

I am asking you?

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
All who live, are dead unless and until reborn to new life.
They needlessly inherit the second death and the wrath of God.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,12:32)

Hi 94, All who live, are dead unless and until reborn to new life. They needlessly inherit the second death and the wrath of God.

Hi Nick:

And so, I believe that you answered the question as it relates to Adam.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Do you know that the first son will not find mercy at the sheep and goat judgement?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,12:37)

Hi 94, Do you know that the first son will not find mercy at the sheep and goat judgement?

Hi Nick:

I hope that all men will find mercy, but I have given you my understanding relative to Adam. He had the opportunity to repent and he did not or at least God does not tell us that he did. He did tell us about Abel's righteous sacrifice, and about Enoch repenting and walking with God 300 years, and I believe that these are saved. He also saved Noah and his family.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

hmm 94,
Do we know all of the mercy of God to judge Adam?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,13:16)

hmm 94, Do we know all of the mercy of God to judge Adam?

Hi Nick:

God judged Adam and He will also judge you and I.

I have simply given my understanding of the scriptures.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Adam died that “day” as we will do. But that is not eternal judgement.

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