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2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
What is Paul talking about? Does Paul ever talk about being literally absent from a physical body? Does he ever talk about a reward other then the resurrection, or having hope in anything other than the resurrection and eternal life? No, he does not. What he does tell us is that if we live in Christ we have put to death the deeds of our bodies. When we ARE present with the Lord, following the Spirit of the Lord, we have crucified our flesh with it’s passions and desires.
Galatians 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Ro 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
When we live according to the desires of our bodies we are absent from God! To be present with the Lord is to live by the Spirit, not by the flesh.
Hi Jodi,
The earth owns the body and it returns to that earth.
While we are in the body which cannot inherit the kingdom we are chained to earth.The firstfruits who are alive today obviously have physical bodies, however they live not for the flesh but for the Spirit. The knowledge of their eternal life and glory that will be revealed in them to the entire world, gives them strength to deny their flesh. They have yet to obtain their eternal life and dwell in the Kingdom, but it has been promised to them.
Some will be alive at Christ's return and their flesh will be changed in a twinkling of an eye, from mortal flesh to immortal flesh!
Hi Jodi,
Those alive when he returns will be instantly changed from having a perishable to having an imperishable body alike to the man from heaven[1cor15,1Thess 5]Hi Jodi:
I have always just gone along with the traditional interpretation, and that is that Paul is saying when we die we are present with the Lord, but you are correct, that is not what he is saying. It is difficult to understand him sometimes.
Quote 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
He is saying that seeing by faith the promise of receiving our spiritual body, we are confident and pleased because of this and because we will be present with the Lord at that time.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 05 2009,16:26) What did Jesus do after the parable? He went and raised Lazerus!
Now that I think about it, after Lazerus had been dead several days, and Jesus brought him back to life again, why no account from Lazerus about where he had been, if he would have been in the Greek hell then he would have expressed his gratitude, and if he would have been in heaven would he not be a little angry being plucked out of God's presense? Or maybe he was just dead and in the tomb.
Good point Constitutionalist.But that took place before Jesus died for our sins and was raised.
Look what happened after that.
Matthew 27:52-53
52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
53 They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus' resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.And in the New Testament it is written:
2 Corinthians 5:8 (NIV)
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV)
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.Is Paul saying I would prefer to be dead and not thinking?
I think that many do not understand that there are significant differences in the Old and New Testaments. Jesus death accomplished certain things and things are different as a result.
So now we come to 1 Thessalonians 4:16
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.It does say that the dead in Christ will rise first. So if it was all at the same time, why would the dead rise first?
Taken from this site:
http://askville.amazon.com/John-di….4543694Within the Christian faith, there is a significant amount of confusion in regards to what happens after death. Some hold that after death, everyone “sleeps” until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to Heaven or Hell. Others believe that immediately after the moment of death, people are instantly judged and send to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary” Heaven or Hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. So, what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?
First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death, believers’ souls/spirits are taken to Heaven, because their sins were forgiven from having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16,18,36). For believers, after death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection?
It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.” At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified and perfected, and then reunited with the soul-spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the inhabitance of believers for eternity, in the New Heavens and New Earth (Revelation chapters 21-22).
Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, after death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the Great White Throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to Hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire” (Luke 16:24).
Hi:
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is not to be taken literally. At death the fate of every person is sealed, but there is a day of judgment coming, but no, they are not judged immediately upon death. This is what Jesus said:
Quote John 12:46-48 (King James Version) 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 11 2009,04:54) 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
What is Paul talking about? Does Paul ever talk about being literally absent from a physical body? Does he ever talk about a reward other then the resurrection, or having hope in anything other than the resurrection and eternal life? No, he does not. What he does tell us is that if we live in Christ we have put to death the deeds of our bodies. When we ARE present with the Lord, following the Spirit of the Lord, we have crucified our flesh with it’s passions and desires.
Galatians 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Ro 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
When we live according to the desires of our bodies we are absent from God! To be present with the Lord is to live by the Spirit, not by the flesh.
If Paul meant, by being absent from the body, (being dead), was to be with Christ, he would have 1 Cor. 15 all wrong.
What Paul is saying is very simple to understand, taking all the other scriptures that have to do with dying in consideration, namely that, when you die you know not anything, the next moment of consciousness (resurrection) would be in the present of the Lord.
That is why Paul said he would rather be dead, then go through all the sufferings.Georg
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:19) Hi: The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is not to be taken literally. At death the fate of every person is sealed, but there is a day of judgment coming, but no, they are not judged immediately upon death. This is what Jesus said:
Quote John 12:46-48 (King James Version) 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe fate of every person will be sealed during the millennium, after their resurrection; it is then, if you will not listen to Jesus' teaching, you will be destroyed for ever, Acts 3:23.
Georg
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,03:07) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:19) Hi: The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is not to be taken literally. At death the fate of every person is sealed, but there is a day of judgment coming, but no, they are not judged immediately upon death. This is what Jesus said:
Quote John 12:46-48 (King James Version) 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe fate of every person will be sealed during the millennium, after their resurrection; it is then, if you will not listen to Jesus' teaching, you will be destroyed for ever, Acts 3:23.
Georg
Hi georg,You said:
When you die you know not anything, the next moment of consciousness (resurrection) would be in the present of the Lord.
You had also on your post you were writing to:
The Parable of Lazarus wasn't literal:
Actually, Parables did not have real names, so yes this was a literal story. It showed that Lazarus was in a different place than the rich man. The rich man asked that Lazarus return to visit his family and tell his brothers. Jesus raised Lazarus and I'm sure he tried warning the rich man's brothers, but we don't know the results unless Jesus' words were prophetic.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 18 2010,11:05) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,03:07) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:19) Hi: The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is not to be taken literally. At death the fate of every person is sealed, but there is a day of judgment coming, but no, they are not judged immediately upon death. This is what Jesus said:
Quote John 12:46-48 (King James Version) 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe fate of every person will be sealed during the millennium, after their resurrection; it is then, if you will not listen to Jesus' teaching, you will be destroyed for ever, Acts 3:23.
Georg
Hi georg,You said:
When you die you know not anything, the next moment of consciousness (resurrection) would be in the present of the Lord.
You had also on your post you were writing to:
The Parable of Lazarus wasn't literal:
Actually, Parables did not have real names, so yes this was a literal story. It showed that Lazarus was in a different place than the rich man. The rich man asked that Lazarus return to visit his family and tell his brothers. Jesus raised Lazarus and I'm sure he tried warning the rich man's brothers, but we don't know the results unless Jesus' words were prophetic.
The Professor
ProfessorThe Lazarus Jesus brought back to life again, is not the same Lazarus as in the parable.
Do you not agree that Jesus is our sacrifice for our sins?
So how could Lazarus possibly be in paradise before Jesus had even died? How did he have his sins forgiven?
You got it wrong, the scriptures I gave you, I did not write, I only quoted them; so it's not I who said it.I just checked back, the scriptuers I was referring to, must be on another thread, so I'll post them here for you.
Rom. 6:23 “ For the wages of sin is death…”
Death is the opposite of life; you stop breathing, and you stop living.
Ps. 104:29 “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.”
Eccl. 3:19 “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.”
v. 20 “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”
Eccl. 9:5 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.”
Ps. 6:5 “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”
Ps. 88:10 “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?”
v. 11 “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?”
v. 12 “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?”
Ps. 115:17 “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”Georg
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 19 2010,06:50) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 18 2010,11:05) Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,03:07) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:19) Hi: The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is not to be taken literally. At death the fate of every person is sealed, but there is a day of judgment coming, but no, they are not judged immediately upon death. This is what Jesus said:
Quote John 12:46-48 (King James Version) 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe fate of every person will be sealed during the millennium, after their resurrection; it is then, if you will not listen to Jesus' teaching, you will be destroyed for ever, Acts 3:23.
Georg
Hi georg,You said:
When you die you know not anything, the next moment of consciousness (resurrection) would be in the present of the Lord.
You had also on your post you were writing to:
The Parable of Lazarus wasn't literal:
Actually, Parables did not have real names, so yes this was a literal story. It showed that Lazarus was in a different place than the rich man. The rich man asked that Lazarus return to visit his family and tell his brothers. Jesus raised Lazarus and I'm sure he tried warning the rich man's brothers, but we don't know the results unless Jesus' words were prophetic.
The Professor
ProfessorThe Lazarus Jesus brought back to life again, is not the same Lazarus as in the parable.
Do you not agree that Jesus is our sacrifice for our sins?
So how could Lazarus possibly be in paradise before Jesus had even died? How did he have his sins forgiven?
You got it wrong, the scriptures I gave you, I did not write, I only quoted them; so it's not I who said it.I just checked back, the scriptuers I was referring to, must be on another thread, so I'll post them here for you.
Rom. 6:23 “ For the wages of sin is death…”
Death is the opposite of life; you stop breathing, and you stop living.
Ps. 104:29 “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.”
Eccl. 3:19 “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.”
v. 20 “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”
Eccl. 9:5 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.”
Ps. 6:5 “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”
Ps. 88:10 “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?”
v. 11 “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?”
v. 12 “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?”
Ps. 115:17 “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”Georg
Good Morning Georg,Notice that the Paradise Lazarus was in was with Abraham. The Hebrews had the two places of waiting for the Judgment with one being called Paradise.
How do you come up with “Lazarus” was not the one Jesus raised from the dead. Look at the complete conversation and then look at Jesus' later actions. Then look at the Jewish leaders' actions (they sought to kill Lazarus). Also, there is only ONE Lazarus talked about in the NT and to my recollection, in no other parable is an actual name given, and Jesus usually prefaces that the story is a parable.
Jhn 12:10 But the chief priests planned to put Lazarus to death also;
Jesus ascended into Heaven into the Father's arms.
Yes I agree that Jesus is the only sacrifice for our sins.
Hbr 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,
Mat 12:36 “But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.
How do you give an accounting if you can't remember?
Jhn 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
When do they pass from death into life and have Eternal Life? What does it profit me if I have eternal life and have no memory of anything prior….also, how does someone without memory get judged for their good works and bad works?
Also, most of the OT verses are questions not statements. David keeps saying that he wants to praise God and if he isn't with God what's the point?
How many times does David keep asking to be in the house of the Lord forever? How would he know the Lord if he has no recollection of anything?
The Professor
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 15 2010,03:07) Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:19) Hi: The parable of Lazarus and the rich man is not to be taken literally. At death the fate of every person is sealed, but there is a day of judgment coming, but no, they are not judged immediately upon death. This is what Jesus said:
Quote John 12:46-48 (King James Version) 46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThe fate of every person will be sealed during the millennium, after their resurrection; it is then, if you will not listen to Jesus' teaching, you will be destroyed for ever, Acts 3:23.
Georg
Hello again Georg,Some other things came to mind…..
What if when Jesus said,
Luk 23:46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.” Having said this, He breathed His last.
He was speaking figuratively and was really saying into Your charge (care) I commit my spirit and like in the story of Lazarus he was in the same “Paradise” as Lazarus was. So, when he told the thief,
Luk 23:43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
They were both going to the waiting place in the ground identified as Paradise??
Then after Jesus rose from the dead HE was the firstborn of the dead to enter into Heaven.
After he achieved this status THEN as Paul said, “Absent from the body….Present with the Lord” could be true.
Prior to Jesus' resurrection everyone waited in Sheol or Paradise. After Jesus' resurrrection everything was immediate. IMO
The Professor
Here's a little double-talk:
John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 9:39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
Jhn 16:28 “I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world AGAIN and going to the Father.”
Professor
What I said about Lazarus, goes for Abraham, and the thief too.
Read this,Hbr 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hbr 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
It begins with Abel;
Hbr 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel…
Abraham is mentioned too.
Hbr 11:8 ¶ By faith Abraham,…
And many others, but see what it says at the end,
Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
They have ALL “obtained” a “good” report, but NONE have received the promise “YET”
Jhn 9:39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
Did Jesus really come to “judge” the world, or did he come to “save” the world?
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Did he do it when he was here? NO; is he doing it now? NO. He will do it when he will reign the world, during the millennium.
“Judging” is not what most people think it means. Do we not get a trial first in our courts before sentencing? That “IS” what the millennium is for; to teach people first, that will be every once trial.
That “IS” what the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is supposed to teach us; it matters how we live our life now, it may hinder us in the millennium to repent. The rich man obviously did not, and he found himself in the lake of fire, second death; his repentance came to late.
Did not Jesus say, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, then for a “rich man” to enter into the kingdom of God?As far as going to a waiting place when you die.
Rom. 6:23 “ For the wages of sin is death…”
Death is the opposite of life; you stop breathing, and you stop living.
Ps. 104:29 “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.”
Eccl. 3:19 “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.”
v. 20 “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”
Eccl. 9:5 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.”
Ps. 6:5 “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”
Ps. 88:10 “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?”
v. 11 “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?”
v. 12 “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?”
Ps. 115:17 “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”
Georg
thanks georg and davidfun
your comment are refreshing and very good to the soul,at least mine.
Pierre
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Sep. 11 2009,04:54) 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
What is Paul talking about? Does Paul ever talk about being literally absent from a physical body? Does he ever talk about a reward other then the resurrection, or having hope in anything other than the resurrection and eternal life? No, he does not. What he does tell us is that if we live in Christ we have put to death the deeds of our bodies. When we ARE present with the Lord, following the Spirit of the Lord, we have crucified our flesh with it’s passions and desires.
Galatians 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Ro 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Ro 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
When we live according to the desires of our bodies we are absent from God! To be present with the Lord is to live by the Spirit, not by the flesh.
Jodi Lee,Wonderful question.
Basically, this section is about the return of Christ for the saints, as described in I Thessalonians 4:13-18 and in I Corinthians 15, see I Corinthians 15:35-57 especially verses 44,46,49,53,54. Paul is looking forward to the return of Christ when the saints, (Romans 10:9-10) will put on, or rather, have a new body, a spiritual body like unto Christ's. See Philippians 3:20-21.
20 For our conversation [citizenship] is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.With this new body we will receive at Christ's return for us, Paul is looking forward to the new house, the new body. We look forward to the return of Christ.
barley
Quote (Baker @ Aug. 20 2010,06:26) Professor What I said about Lazarus, goes for Abraham, and the thief too.
Read this,Hbr 11:1 ¶ Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hbr 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
It begins with Abel;
Hbr 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel…
Abraham is mentioned too.
Hbr 11:8 ¶ By faith Abraham,…
And many others, but see what it says at the end,
Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
They have ALL “obtained” a “good” report, but NONE have received the promise “YET”
Jhn 9:39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
Did Jesus really come to “judge” the world, or did he come to “save” the world?
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Did he do it when he was here? NO; is he doing it now? NO. He will do it when he will reign the world, during the millennium.
“Judging” is not what most people think it means. Do we not get a trial first in our courts before sentencing? That “IS” what the millennium is for; to teach people first, that will be every once trial.
That “IS” what the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is supposed to teach us; it matters how we live our life now, it may hinder us in the millennium to repent. The rich man obviously did not, and he found himself in the lake of fire, second death; his repentance came to late.
Did not Jesus say, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, then for a “rich man” to enter into the kingdom of God?As far as going to a waiting place when you die.
Rom. 6:23 “ For the wages of sin is death…”
Death is the opposite of life; you stop breathing, and you stop living.
Ps. 104:29 “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.”
Eccl. 3:19 “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.”
v. 20 “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”
Eccl. 9:5 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.”
Ps. 6:5 “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?”
Ps. 88:10 “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?”
v. 11 “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?”
v. 12 “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?”
Ps. 115:17 “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”
Georg
ProfessorAre you going to ignore all these scriptures again?
Georg
Jesus preached to the dead.
What dead?
And how do you preach to those who are turned off so to speak?1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,And why do people preach about death thereby rendering the gulf between the righteous and the wicked dead as a parable that doesn't make sense?
Also, when we die, are we subject to time?
If not, then when we die and are present with the LORD may not be a linear time line as we think.
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