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The lake of fire is the second death. Those who do not accept Christ taste the first death and are reserved in hell awaiting judgement and the second death that is eternal in the lake of fire and brimstone. In this death, death and hell are thrown into the fire.
Yes, Nick, in Luke 16, Hell and Hades is not the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. It is the place where the righteous and unrigheous dead were being held in death.
Hi,
This thread is about the 'death' of the human spirit.
The spirit does not die but returns to God from whence it came
Ecc 12
“7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”Nick,
You made the reference that those who were walking out of the tombs durning the time of Jesus's resurrection may have been resurrected. I disagreed with you because I did not believe the resurrection of the saints was to take place until a future date. Yet, as I was reading Rev. 14 today, I thought about the 144,000 spoken of from every tribe of Israel. What if these were the ones walking around at the time of Jesus resurrection.
Revelation 14 KJV
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
Hi H,
Lazarus was resurrected by the one who is called the resurrection and the life so God does not have to follow any rules we may think apply to things such as these.It seems only a few were raised at the time of the death of Jesus and not this many.
I would have thought these are the reborn sons of God shown in Revelation.
Notice the word firstfruits Nick. I believe this is the key to understanding the 144,000. And although you say only a few were seen, that does not mean that this amount was not the few. For who is to say that this amount was not thoughout all of Israel.
And they could not be in heaven unless they were in their eternal bodies.
1 Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Hi H,
They are not in heaven. They are standing on Mt Zion.Is 4 5And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.”
“Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 07 2006,01:27) Notice the word firstfruits Nick. I believe this is the key to understanding the 144,000. And although you say only a few were seen, that does not mean that this amount was not the few. For who is to say that this amount was not thoughout all of Israel.
Hi H,
It is not written but I think it likely that if there was 144,000 it would have been in all the newspapers forever.Hi H,
So are you saying Revelation is not prophecy
but has already happened,
and it had happened by the time John was on Patmos???Nick,
The Jews did as much as they could to cover up things concerning the gospel. And although this event is mentioned in scripture, it definitely would not have been mentioned in any historical documentation kept by the Jewish Scribes. Something else to is that it is possible the majority assended into heaven and did not walk the earth. It is only speculation. We won't know until we are with the Lord and he tells us. That will be the only real way any would accept this, since it is not written. Yet, I believe the possiblity exists that these did assend at the time of our Lord. The world has always believed that it was an event yet to come, but if you read the rest of Rev. 14, the event sounds as if it occured around the time of our Lord's resurrection. Look at these verses. These are events that could only happen after the resurrection.
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Hi H,
2Thess 2
” 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time”
So what I am trying to say is if you read the entire chapter of Rev. 14, I believe it is in the order as spoken and that the 144,000 are the firstfruits and that this happened at the time our Lord was resurrected.
The preaching of the gospel throughout all the earth and blessing the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them came after the resurrection. At least this is the way it sounds to me. The Lord will help me understand for sure in this matter if it is his will by more scripture to prove this to be so.
Hi H,
Rev 1
” 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”
Hi H,
Rev 22
“16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. “
Hi H,
Romans 8.16 shows us we still have our own spirit after we are reborn from above.“16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
Now that you posted your comments. Could you tell me what you are trying to convey with them. Because I haven't a clue. Other then your last post that you tossed in because you still cannot see the truth from the original post. I don't know so much if it is that you cannot see it, or just your flesh will not let you believe it.
Anyway, I was asking your comment on Rev. 14 and somehow you went off on a tangent that left me clueless. So as for holding an intelligent conversation with you, I am at odds that it could happen. Especially since you cannot see the truth in God's Word.
One thing you need to know about Revelations is that to understand it, you must understand that part of it's prophecies have already happened in the past and part are yet to come. You must be able to discern the past from the future.
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