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Hi H,
Is original sin in the bible?Man has a spirit that gives him life.
Jas 2.26
“26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”So this is the source of our life and it returns to God at death.
Ecc 12.7
” 7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it”So this was not killed or removed when Adam was told he would die that day because it was not fulfilled for hundreds of years. But a limit was placed on the time a human tent would survive.
And Adam did not have the Spirit of God.
There are no other spirits to die.
So what is this spiritual death you speak of?
BTW you have tiold us you err and so must be prepared to learn still so could you be wrong here as well?
Nick, you are not arguing with me, you are arguing with scripture. It plainly says that on the day they eat of the fruit, they will die. It does not say hundreds of years down the road. It says in the day. Can't you understand that. Yet, they continued to live in the flesh. So if the Word of God is truth, it had to be referring to something other then death of the flesh. And it was, it was referring to spiritual death. Man sold his soul unto sin. It says that in scripture. It says that he sold his soul unto sin. If you look for it, you can find it.
Hi H,
“Man sold his soul unto sin. It says that in scripture. It says that he sold his soul unto sin.”
So Here is Rom 7
” 4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin”
So the Law of sin in the body opposes the Law of the Spirit written on Paul's heart. He acknowledges that the body is of earth and condemned to physical death, and the inner man, the soul, is what is saved.
So nothing here about the soul being sold into sin is there?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 03 2006,22:48) Hi H, “Man sold his soul unto sin. It says that in scripture. It says that he sold his soul unto sin.”
So Here is Rom 7
” 4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Their life force is in them but they are unable to have communion with God so they are spiritually dead. Adam and Eve became Spiritually dead.
5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin”
So the Law of sin in the body opposes the Law of the Spirit written on Paul's heart. He acknowledges that the body is of earth and condemned to physical death, and the inner man, the soul, is what is saved.
So nothing here about the soul being sold into sin is there?
What did Jesus mean by dead bury the dead. Those who are not born again are already dead.Mat 8:22 But Jesus saith unto him, Follow me; and leave the dead to bury their own dead.
Nick, will you die in the flesh? All of mankind, because of original sin die. This death occurs both in soul and flesh. When the soul leaves the body, the flesh returns to the earth. When Adam sinned, the souls of men were sold unto death because of sin. And all who are born into this world must face death. Yet, Jesus came to save mankind from eternal death. Jesus came to save mankind's soul from death. It is for this reason all who believe in him, though dead, yet will never die. For Jesus is the quickening spirit. He is our captain of salvation.
You are right Kenrch. Many are walking the earth in the flesh, living and breathing, but are dead. They are spiritually dead. This is what Jesus was referring to. This is a good point. As always, you manage to make good points. Thanks.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 03 2006,23:29) You are right Kenrch. Many are walking the earth in the flesh, living and breathing, but are dead. They are spiritually dead. This is what Jesus was referring to. This is a good point. As always, you manage to make good points. Thanks.
yes the Lord showed me that. It was as if I was walking and everyone else was dead like zombies! Really amazing!We walk among the dead every day. It is so sad.
I work at a powerplant and they talk all their filthy talk without any consideration towards me. When I am reading the Word, I have asked them to not use the filthy language while I am reading. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. They just don't know how awful that is and what is in store for them by dishonoring one who stands for the Lord.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 03 2006,23:46) We walk among the dead every day. It is so sad. I work at a powerplant and they talk all their filthy talk without any consideration towards me. When I am reading the Word, I have asked them to not use the filthy language while I am reading. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. They just don't know how awful that is and what is in store for them by dishonoring one who stands for the Lord.
Such are the times!1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
That is how we know we are in the end of times. For the truth has become a rare commodity. The world would rather believe a lie. For they love sin more then God.
Hi Kenrch,
Jn 5.24f
“24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live”
Here are two meanings of death in subsequent verses.The dead who hear the voice are physically dead.
Those as yet not reborn are alive but are still under the condemnation of the second death.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 04 2006,00:01) Hi Kenrch,
Jn 5.24f
“24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live”
Here are two meanings of death in subsequent verses.The dead who hear the voice are physically dead.
Those as yet not reborn are alive but are still under the condemnation of the second death.
Yes Nick they are spiritually dead.25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live”
When Jesus died, he went and preached to the dead who were held captive in death. This is the hour he is referring to. And he set them free. These are all those who died and were righteous in heart. They could not be set free from the grasp of death until Jesus defeated death and until they confessed with the fruit of their lips unto salvation.
Romans 10:10 For with the heart, one believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Hi H,
Hmmm.
I would have thought it refers to the first resurrection.
1Thess 4.16
“16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”No Nick, it does not refer to the resurrection. For when Jesus comes to resurrect the dead, the souls of all those who have died in Christ will be with him. When Jesus comes, those who have died believing will be with him and they will be rejoined with their bodies that sleep in the graves.
1 Thess. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Hi H,
Who are the THEM here? Bodies?
1Thess 4.13
” 13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.”What of the dead bodies in the sea-are they dispered around the globe yet asleep?
Rev 20
” 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.”Hi,
From H's Site
“One day in the garden Satan spoke through the serpent unto Eve. He challenged the credibility of God's word and suggested to Eve that God was a liar. Satan told Eve that she wouldn't die if she ate of the fruit but would live forever like God. Eve chose to believe the lie and Adam followed her lead. They died spiritually that very day, just as God had said, but lived on many years in the flesh before they died physically as well. The Bible speaks about our condition before salvation, in Ephesians 2:1, “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.” The basic fact is that we were spiritually stillborn, spiritually dead”Now does scripture say Adam was going to live forever?
or
Was it only if he ate the fruit from the tree of life,
which he did not do?Gen 2
” 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
God knew the secret of eternal life was in the fruit of the tree of life, but did not tell Adam.
Gen 3
” 22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”The tree they ate from produced attractive looking fruit and the tree had a good advertising campaign going through Satan. I would expect the other fruit looked miserable in comparison but perhaps we should not trust our eyes.
” 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
So indications are that Adam never ate from the right tree so never enjoyed the promise of eternal life given through it.
So did he become “spiritually dead” or was he already destined to die?
Eph 2.1f
” 1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:”
So those who have not received the fountain of living water unto eternal life do not have the promise of eternal life but have to rely on the mercy of God in the final judgement and unless they find that life they face the second death. They are dead as dead, children of wrath.
By contrast we are already as part of the body of Christ, already in him at the right hand of the Father and although we will not fully experience that promise till he returns for us it is true even now.
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