- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi H,
Did you also not know death is a process as well as an event?2Cor 4.12
” 12So death works in us, but life in you.”Nick. You misuse scripture. Read what you posted. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about. This is saying we all still will die in the flesh. Yet, that Jesus will be made manifest in our flesh. This is speaking of the day our mortal will put on immortal. This is speaking of the resurrection, the day Christ comes for the bride.
2 Cor. 4:10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
The more we allow Christ to work in us, the more we mortify the flesh. It is his spirit that is in us that has broken the hold of sin in our lives. If we depend on him, he will save us from ourselves.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 21 2006,22:35) The more we allow Christ to work in us, the more we mortify the flesh. It is his spirit that is in us that has broken the hold of sin in our lives. If we depend on him, he will save us from ourselves.
Yes we must allow Him to grow more and we become less. The less we are the more He is.Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
Joh 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is of the earth, and of the earth he speaketh: he that cometh from heaven is above all.Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 21 2006,22:30) Nick. You misuse scripture. Read what you posted. It has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Hi H,
My problem is that you seem unable to have a misunderstanding with anyone without also immediately judging and abusing them.
Often a gentle word asking for clarification would have been far more helpful to us all.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 21 2006,22:32) Hi H,
Methinks you need to listen more and talk less.
Nick, all I said is that you misused the scripture. You took one verse and tried to use it to discredit what I was trying to say so I called you on it. You can't do that. I am sorry if you think I did it to upset you. I didn't do it for that purpose. I just wanted you to understand the problem with just using one scripture out of context.Hi H,
You and I are irrelevant and it does not really matter if we are personally discredited because it is the words of God that are precious and must be protected from illtreatment.But attacking the ones you feel are deceived or confused does little to attract them to your form of faith.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 21 2006,22:08) ummm
I know I know! Is that why Jesus said to let the dead bury the dead?Mat 8:22 But Jesus saith unto him, Follow me; and leave the dead to bury their own dead.
Nick, I was not referring to myself as being discredited. Now you are putting words into my mouth. I was referring to you trying to use one line of scripture to say something that would discredit the death of the spirit. Nick, why do you think God told them not to eat of the tree? It was because if they disobeyed him and ate of the forbidden fruit, they would die. Why did they die, because they disobeyed God and disobedience to God is sin.
God can not have association with sin and because of sin, mankind became seperated from God by death.
Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 21 2006,23:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 21 2006,22:08) ummm
I know I know! Is that why Jesus said to let the dead bury the dead?Mat 8:22 But Jesus saith unto him, Follow me; and leave the dead to bury their own dead.
Good post brother. Short and sweet.Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Aug. 21 2006,23:47) Quote (kenrch @ Aug. 21 2006,23:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 21 2006,22:08) ummm
I know I know! Is that why Jesus said to let the dead bury the dead?Mat 8:22 But Jesus saith unto him, Follow me; and leave the dead to bury their own dead.
Good post brother. Short and sweet.
I don't know is scripture good enough?A man must be born again. When Adam sinned, he became spiritually dead and all of mankind are spiritually dead and must be reborn, born again in the spirit to enter into the kingdom of God.
Hi H,
What does
“spiritually dead”
mean in scripture?Surely the original physical design for Adam was for man to live forever physically but they never ate from the tree of life as they were entitled to do. God made man in His image and God does not die
Gen 5
” 1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he them.”Gen 2
” 16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: “Eve understood God
“We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.”
And God confirmed their flesh could have lived forever.
Gen 3
“22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”Now God put limits on the life of a man
Gen 3
” 17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”
Later God shortened the time still further
Gen 6
” 3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”But the vessel of man designed to hold the Spirit of God instead became the squatter's property of an earthly god and sin ruled man from within his cup. Man still died and sin within became an insoluble problem for him and Jesus mocked the Pharisees to clean the inside of their cup knowing only he could do that.
Matt 23
” 25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also”
Dying in our sins became the issue as only the forgiven can enter the presence of God.Jn 8
” 24I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. “So if spiritual life is Godly man never had it
from eating of the tree of life or
drinking from the waters of eternal life
until the time of Jesus surely?.
Hi,
God promised death if Adam and Eve ate from the tree of the kmowledge of good and evil. They were not theologians with other knowledge of the meanings of life and death other than the physical life they knew. They surely knew God meant they would return to the dust of earth.
Gen3
” 19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”Gen 2
” 15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. ”
They would die physically in that scriptural day.
And 2 Peter tells us the meaning of a day to God.
2Peter 2
“8 beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”And none reached the end of scriptural day.
Gen 5
” 3And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:4And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
5And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
10And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:
13And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.
26And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.”
Quote So if spiritual life is Godly man never had it
from eating of the tree of life or
drinking from the waters of eternal life
until the time of Jesus surely?On this I disagree with you Nick. For what is it that changed in the entire senerio? Adam and Eve sinned. It was sin that made the difference. Because of sin, they died. Look what God told them. He said in the day that they eat of the fruit, they would die. Yet, they lived many years in the flesh. So is the Word of God wrong? God forbid. The day they ate of the fruit, their souls were sold unto death. They became spiritually dead, seperated from God.
This is where you have to understand how man became sold unto death. All who died after that day were held captive by death. Satan had to keys. All the souls were held bound in a place called death or the bosom of Abraham as referred to by Jesus for the righteous dead and hell fire for the unrighteous souls.
Because of Adam and Eve sinning, at physical death, the souls of men could not go to be with God, for it was held under the bondage of death because of sin. It was not until Jesus defeated death by living a life without sin, and dying unblemished. His death was unjust. Because he was a man who lived a life without sin and a man who lives a life without sin should live forever. Yet, they killed him and it was unjust. But it had to be done for all of mankind and it was the reason the Son came into the world. So all who believe in the Son will never die.
Hi H,
Please back up each of your statements here with scripture“Because of Adam and Eve sinning, at physical death, the souls of men could not go to be with God, for it was held under the bondage of death because of sin.”
Where does it say:
they would always physically die as their human destiny?
the souls of righteous men would normally go to God at death?
sin changed this scenario?“It was not until Jesus defeated death by living a life without sin, and dying unblemished. His death was unjust. Because he was a man who lived a life without sin and a man who lives a life without sin should live forever.”
Where is it written:
men who do not sin should live forever?
you have already shown that men were not designed to live forever so what does this mean?
you are now speaking of physical death as the punishment for sin are you not?“Yet, they killed him and it was unjust. But it had to be done for all of mankind and it was the reason the Son came into the world. So all who believe in the Son will never die.”
Where is it written;
which death are you referring to now-first, second or the place? The same word can be used for all these things so now the water is getting pretty muddy as to which you are referring.Nick, we have discussed this at different times and you always come up empty. First of all, you refuse to recognize that the day Adam and Eve sinned, they died. Just as it says in scripture. God said that in the day they ate of the tree of good and evil, they would surely die. And they did. Yet, you refuse to believe the Word of God. If you don't understand this death, then you won't understand anything else I try to explain to you. Have you not heard of original sin? It is the sin that sold all mankind under the bondage of death. I have shown you scriptures, but they mean little to you. Just as this one you refuse to believe.
Gen. 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
As for living a life without sin and never dying. Jesus was perfect and without sin. He had to be and by him being put to death unjustly, he defeated death. Don't you understand the concept of this? Adam was without sin, and sinned, bringing death. Jesus was without sin and died unjustly, removing death.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
