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Since I came to this forum, the only real difference I have had with my brothers and sisters on this site is my stand on the KJ bible. Yet, that will not keep any of us from loving eachother in Christ. I thank God for bringing me hear. He leads me to many places on the net. I have been learning allot from the past posts. Thank you everyone. I believe it is our unity through the Holy Spirit that brings us to one accord, as did those in the early church.
Anyway, I use this scripture, John 3:3 thru 7 as a litmus test to see how far one is in their spiritual growth or to see of they are of God. I want to know what you all think? Please do not think I am trying to be anything more than what I am, and that is a sinner, for the only good in me comes by my yielding to the will of Jesus. Only when my cup of self will is empty can I truly be filled with the will of Christ.
In verse 3, Jesus is telling Nicodemus except a man be born again, he
cannot see the kingdom of God………..Now as you examine this, look
at the word born again. Does it not make sense that to be born again,
one must first be born. To prove this, examine the next verse.In verse 4, Nicodemus asks how can a man be born when he is old. Can
he enter a second time into his mothers womb and be born?……
The important word to examine here is second…….
Nicodemus thought Jesus was talking about two physical births, but
he was not and the proof lies in the next verse.
In verse 5, Jesus says, except a man be born of water and of spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God…….Here our Lord is
telling of two different births, one by water and one by spirit.
When we are born into this world, we are born in a sack of water or
physical birth. Proof that Jesus is talking about physical birth and
spiritual birth can be found in the next verse.
In verse 6, Jesus says that which is born of the flesh is flesh and
that which is born of the spirit is spirit……physical birth,
spiritual birth
So if a man, who is dead in spirit doesn't become reborn, he will
never see the kingdom of God. So when Jesus says a man must be born
again, he is talking about our dead spirit being born again. The
above scripture talks of three births. One in the flesh and two in
the spirit. When we are born into this world, our spirits are born
dead because of sin and if that spirit is not reborn, we will be
lost.hicitc
Hi H,
If you were ever present at a birth you would know that the term “waters” relating to childbirth are a euphemism for a mixture of all sorts of matter.They do not compare with the “pure” waters of baptism our bodies need to be washed in [Heb 10.22]
Nowhere else is natural birth in scripture ever referred to as being “born of water” so your motion dies for lack of a seconder.
Do you really think that Jesus said we could not enter the kingdom unless we were born naturally?
Is that not an oxymoron to the living listeners?
Brother, reread what I wrote. What it says is a man must be reborn in spirit to enter into the kingdom of Heaven. As you know, because of original sin, all mankind are born dead in spirit, and unless they are renewed, they can not enter the kingdom of God. For how can one be born again unless he is first born. Nicodemus thought the Lord was referring to was two physical births, but Jesus was referring to two spiritual births.
As one man brought death to all men, one man brought life to all men.Hi H,
You will know of course from Gen 2.7 that Adam was created by the breath of God and not the Spirit, so he was a living being with his own spirit given to him such that he was separate from God. He was never a spiritual being but only a piece of dirt enlivened by God.
So to become a spiritual being he has to be reborn of water-into the death of Christ- and Spirit, into the resurrectiion of Christ[Rom 6]Hi H,
Jesus went and spoke to those in prison when he had died but was made alive in the Spirit [1peter3]. I do not know but believe Adam would have been among them.I am not so sure brother. He said a man must be born of water and of spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. Adam was never physically born. Now either Jesus said this to keep Adam from heaven or to keep fallen angels who may take over the bodies of men for heaven, I do not know. Yet, it is interesting, for there must be a reason for the Lord to word it this way.
Hi h,
That is because being born of water has nothing to do with natural birth.
It is the baptism in water by which we enter the death of Christ.God makes it so easy for us. He could have demanded that we all be martyred to be saved or something worse but belief in the Son and repentance and baptism in water is all He asks.
Naaman the Syrian was also offended that God, through Elisha, demanded her be washed seven times in the river to be free from his Leprosy. He refused and got no healing. He returned and obeyed the righteous demands of God, and God blessed him with healing.
So must we.
You lost me on this one bro. Jesus plainly says, that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.
As for the baptism of water, it is symbolic of our dying to our sinful natures, the water being the grave, and arising a new creature in Christ. Nothing more. It will not keep one from salvation or cause one from losing salvation, the thief on the cross is a perfect example.
KJV: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Hi H,
Nicodemus had asked if man must reenter his mother's womb and be reborn [of flesh].
Jesus contrasted that natural birth with spiritual rebirth. Because what is born of flesh is flesh and cursed to die, man must be reborn of the eternal Spirit of life.Water baptism is only into the death and burial of Christ [Rom 6.3f] so Spirit baptism is that fountain of new life springing up in us unto eternity.
We must find that fountain before the cord snaps and the bucket falls to the bottom of the well[ eccl 12.6f]
Dear Nick,
It is the blood of the lamb that washes away our sins, but it is our faith that saves us. So we agree it is by faith in Christ a man is saved, born again. I believe it is through the baptism of blood our sins are washed away. Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
1 Corinthians 12:13 For through the baptism of the one Spirit we were all formed into one body, Jews or Greeks, servants or free men, and were all made full of the same Spirit.
Is it not the forgiveness of sins that make us all brothers and sisters in Christ? If a man does not get saved, is he equally yoked with God and his son and all those who are saved? He can only be of the same spirit if born again.
Hi H,
All your logic seems to point to a lack of need for water baptism.
Is this what you believe?
Was Paul a fool for placing so much emphasis on it?
Were Peter and Philip deceived by obeying Christ?
Does man no longer need to repent and to receive the symbolic washing away of sin in water baptism that enables the blood to be sprinkled?
Or has God changed His mind and written in the Word that the words of Peter at Pentecost are not not to be obeyed any longer and faith, as the demons have, is all that is now required?Hi H,
Salvation is of God. Only God can judge the heart.
Was Simon Magus saved?
He had been baptised?
Did the apostles judge whether man had truly repented when they baptised men in their thousands? no. They left the judgement of the sufficiency of man's repentance and belief to God and obeyed God. Now all we can do is obey what is written and the rest is over to God.Nick, hiding in the shadows of questions is like a wolf hiding in sheeps clothing. If you have nothing to hide, why not answer. Brother, we are here to share and learn. Is not the important part of the faith love in Christ and in that brotherly love, sharing with eachother our walk in the faith. Not all are at the same level in the faith. Some are on milk, some on meat and some in between. Reguardless, one thing is true, if something is added or taken away from the word of God, a person is in danger of judgement. This is why the word of God is important.
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