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Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2012,17:05) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,15:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2012,15:37) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,08:25) Quote The spirit of worship within the high consciousness of man is a persistent driving force to seek God –colter
And what of the other half of the world that don't live in so called Christian lands?
Where is the “driving force” in them to seek God?–it doesn't exist. Why? Because it also didn't exist in their parents.
There is a driving force in people in “Christian” lands, just as there is a driving force for children to believe in Santa clause, or really, anything they are told at a young age.
That is not actually the case in all lands there is this urge to believe in an ultimate God it is in all known people. I have been studying the validity of life patterns and it is mind boggling but yet I continue not to doubt God but to try to comprehend my own and others circumstance.
No.There is a clear distinction based on location.
If there was this inner thing where everyone believes in God, regardless of what they are aught as children, and culture, and peers, then, it would be more even. It is not even at all.
Sorry, you are incorrect in all languages and cultures there is the belief in God you may be confused in whetherit is called “Christianity” but that is “your” understanding but make no mistake the belief in Creator God is worldwide and has always been worldwide no european missionaries needed
Ok. I can accept that people in most lands will grow up believing in a deity, as opposed by God.Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2012,17:05) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,15:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2012,15:37) Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2012,08:25) Quote The spirit of worship within the high consciousness of man is a persistent driving force to seek God –colter
And what of the other half of the world that don't live in so called Christian lands?
Where is the “driving force” in them to seek God?–it doesn't exist. Why? Because it also didn't exist in their parents.
There is a driving force in people in “Christian” lands, just as there is a driving force for children to believe in Santa clause, or really, anything they are told at a young age.
That is not actually the case in all lands there is this urge to believe in an ultimate God it is in all known people. I have been studying the validity of life patterns and it is mind boggling but yet I continue not to doubt God but to try to comprehend my own and others circumstance.
No.There is a clear distinction based on location.
If there was this inner thing where everyone believes in God, regardless of what they are aught as children, and culture, and peers, then, it would be more even. It is not even at all.
Sorry, you are incorrect in all languages and cultures there is the belief in God you may be confused in whetherit is called “Christianity” but that is “your” understanding but make no mistake the belief in Creator God is worldwide and has always been worldwide no european missionaries needed
Ok, people over the years have worshiped many many things as gods.I think the question of “why” is one of the most important questions we can ask.
A person in one country and time grow up worshipping their ancestors as gods
In another place and time, they worship trees
In another place, rocks
In another time, the skyPeople do seem predisposed to create gods. I fully agree with that, if that is what you are saying.
However, the idea that everyone on the planet are born with this inner idea that their is a creator, is false. Isn't it?
Quote (Colter @ Oct. 22 2012,07:37) Simplyforgiven, Your theory has God as a house divided against himself, having both an evil will and a righteous will. Creating man in goodness with free will presented the “potential” for imperfection, evil, sin or even eniquity. But that does not mean it is ever Gods will for man to sin.
In Genesis God scolds and condemns the devil, your theology has God condemning himself, opposing the will of the evil crafty beast which (in your retarded theology) was merely doing the evil will of his creator.
In the fragmented story of Genesis we can see that the earth was already populated as Cain is frightened about the other people on the earth outside the garden.
Death is natural, it was on the earth long before Adam and Eve arrived. The crafty beast had already fallen.
Colter
Awww so it begins,Colter,
Quote Your theory has God as a house divided against himself, having both an evil will and a righteous will. Creating man in goodness with free will presented the “potential” for imperfection, evil, sin or even eniquity. But that does not mean it is ever Gods will for man to sin. What you just said here, is pure theory, I see no substance that you have taken from scripture to prove your assertions. All your doing is blabbing your theology without giving me any substance for me to consider, yet you call me retarded? Your doing what you accuse me of, yet im the one with the retarded theology?
I told you not to take it personal, but here you are being a hypocrite.
There is a purpose for evil, or else why would God plant the tree of the knowlege of Good and Evil.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.God is sovereign, there is nothing out of His control.
Quote In Genesis God scolds and condemns the devil, your theology has God condemning himself, opposing the will of the evil crafty beast which (in your retarded theology) was merely doing the evil will of his creator.
Thats not what I said, so no need to imply. You see, your being very irresponsible. I'm here telling you to prove your conjectures, and than instead you put words in my mouth?Nay, It would be silly for God to condemn Himself.
Nay, Its not about God having an evil will, rather that Satan was created as liar since the beginning. Can you say other wise?
Where does it say that he is good?I given you the oppurtunity to prove whatever you want to believe in, im not acting like a jerk, though I couldn't say the same for you.
Quote Death is natural, it was on the earth long before Adam and Eve arrived. The crafty beast had already fallen.
Prove that.
Where does it say that in your bible?There isn't a theologian that I know that is Trinitarian, that is anything of the sort that would say that death existed before Adam sinned. Makeing such a notion, or even implying so is retarded.
Provide scripture for all your beliefs, if you can't do that than your just wasting my time.
Thanks,
Dennison
Quote (david @ Oct. 22 2012,14:35) However, the idea that everyone on the planet are born with this inner idea that their is a creator, is false. Isn't it?
Exactly David.Buddhists don't believe in a creator. In fact nearly 25% of the world's population
have no belief in a creator.
Perhaps it would be simpler to explain why they have no such fantasy beliefs, as opposed to trying to guess why the other people have formulated a belief in so many different gods altogether.Tim
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 22 2012,15:26) Quote (Colter @ Oct. 22 2012,07:37) Simplyforgiven, Your theory has God as a house divided against himself, having both an evil will and a righteous will. Creating man in goodness with free will presented the “potential” for imperfection, evil, sin or even eniquity. But that does not mean it is ever Gods will for man to sin.
In Genesis God scolds and condemns the devil, your theology has God condemning himself, opposing the will of the evil crafty beast which (in your retarded theology) was merely doing the evil will of his creator.
In the fragmented story of Genesis we can see that the earth was already populated as Cain is frightened about the other people on the earth outside the garden.
Death is natural, it was on the earth long before Adam and Eve arrived. The crafty beast had already fallen.
Colter
Awww so it begins,Colter,
Quote Your theory has God as a house divided against himself, having both an evil will and a righteous will. Creating man in goodness with free will presented the “potential” for imperfection, evil, sin or even eniquity. But that does not mean it is ever Gods will for man to sin. What you just said here, is pure theory, I see no substance that you have taken from scripture to prove your assertions. All your doing is blabbing your theology without giving me any substance for me to consider, yet you call me retarded? Your doing what you accuse me of, yet im the one with the retarded theology?
I told you not to take it personal, but here you are being a hypocrite.
There is a purpose for evil, or else why would God plant the tree of the knowlege of Good and Evil.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.God is sovereign, there is nothing out of His control.
Quote In Genesis God scolds and condemns the devil, your theology has God condemning himself, opposing the will of the evil crafty beast which (in your retarded theology) was merely doing the evil will of his creator.
Thats not what I said, so no need to imply. You see, your being very irresponsible. I'm here telling you to prove your conjectures, and than instead you put words in my mouth?Nay, It would be silly for God to condemn Himself.
Nay, Its not about God having an evil will, rather that Satan was created as liar since the beginning. Can you say other wise?
Where does it say that he is good?I given you the oppurtunity to prove whatever you want to believe in, im not acting like a jerk, though I couldn't say the same for you.
Quote Death is natural, it was on the earth long before Adam and Eve arrived. The crafty beast had already fallen.
Prove that.
Where does it say that in your bible?There isn't a theologian that I know that is Trinitarian, that is anything of the sort that would say that death existed before Adam sinned. Makeing such a notion, or even implying so is retarded.
Provide scripture for all your beliefs, if you can't do that than your just wasting my time.
Thanks,
Dennison
The fall of the “crafty beast” or Satan, or the devil:Isaiah 14:12-17
How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’ 15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?’
God condemning the actions of the evil one that you claim God created as “evil”:
Genesis 3
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.Cains fear of a “populated earth”
God validates Cains fear of those outside the garden.
Cain finds a wife in “Nod” (a Nodite settlement)Genesis 4:13-18
13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.
If your theology is based strictly on the current Bible then your world view is severely restricted which will handicap further discussion and any possible mind expansion. The Bible, as it exists today having been redacted and edited, contains multiple themes and can be “cherry picked” to justify any of the thousands of different doctrines based on those extrapolations. It requires, just a little common sense, to follow the spiritual content.
Colter
Hi Colter,
1. The fall of the “crafty beast” or Satan, or the devil:
Isaiah 14:12-17Not talking about Satan. No where in that text is the name “Satan” nor “Devil” is mentioned to suggest that this particular verse is reffering to the entity known as the Devil at all.
I'll tell you who it is about, lets look at the context.
Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Its talking about a specfic Man, so you can't use this as evidence to say that Satan fell from heaven and what not. That he betrayed God. This is only an example of how Satan is in man, and how men fall apart and destroy themselves.
Let me quote from this article:
“Note that Isaiah speaks of a man, a specific one at that – the king of Babylon. Note that the Spirit of God through Isaiah refers to Lucifer’s remnant – son and grandson. Does Satan have sons and grandsons? Also, God not only speaks of Lucifer, but of the whole empire of Babylon with him.
Lucifer’s Judgment Fulfilled
Isaiah prophesied these words – and they came to pass centuries later. The nation of Babylon is no more, and the once glorious Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon and head of gold (Daniel 2), came to be humbled (Daniel 4).
Why was the king of Babylon humbled? Because in his heart and with his mouth he declared, “I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will go up above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.”
Where and when did Nebuchadnezzar think and say such things?
Daniel 4:29-33 MKJV“…..
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/satan.htmTake a look at context before you assume things.
2. God condemning the actions of the evil one that you claim God created as “evil”:
God hardened Pharaohs heart and still brought out his wonders and plagues to punish him, so whats the problem with that logic?
I'll prove it to you.
Exodus 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.Exodus 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
God Hardens the heart of Pharaoh for for His own glory.
Romans 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.Quote Cains fear of a “populated earth”
God validates Cains fear of those outside the garden.
Cain finds a wife in “Nod” (a Nodite settlement)
I never argued against this.Quote If your theology is based strictly on the current Bible then your world view is severely restricted which will handicap further discussion and any possible mind expansion. The Bible, as it exists today having been redacted and edited, contains multiple themes and can be “cherry picked” to justify any of the thousands of different doctrines based on those extrapolations. It requires, just a little common sense, to follow the spiritual content.
I never said that my beliefs are based on the current bible.
Yes the bible is flawed and corrupted.
However, common sense can't be used to understand the Word of God. Having the ability to read, or even being intelligent would cause a person to have the honor to understand the Word of God. If you don't know the Author than you woudn't know what is truly from Him, nor whats not His.For example, If I write a letter and send it to a person that I know. They would know by my hand writing, language, grammer, word choices that its truly Dennison who sent that letter. If a person doesn't know me, than they wouldn't know the difference. When it comes to truth, its the same.
God is not limited to the bible, whats spiritual is not revealed by common sense, but by revelation.Thanks,
Dennison
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 22 2012,10:47) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,14:51) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2012,18:42) We know that lightning exists, but Zeus isnt causing it.
How do we know Zeus isn't causing it?Stuart
Well honestly I do not know Stu,
There are many gods, that are suppose to have the power of lightening such as Raiden from mortal kombat.Im sure that we know that Zeus isn't cuasing it because he doesn't exist, and there is an explaination of what already cuases lightening.
How do we know Zeus doesn't exist?Stuart
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 23 2012,16:34) Hi Colter, 1. The fall of the “crafty beast” or Satan, or the devil:
Isaiah 14:12-17Not talking about Satan. No where in that text is the name “Satan” nor “Devil” is mentioned to suggest that this particular verse is reffering to the entity known as the Devil at all.
I'll tell you who it is about, lets look at the context.
Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
Its talking about a specfic Man, so you can't use this as evidence to say that Satan fell from heaven and what not. That he betrayed God. This is only an example of how Satan is in man, and how men fall apart and destroy themselves.
Let me quote from this article:
“Note that Isaiah speaks of a man, a specific one at that – the king of Babylon. Note that the Spirit of God through Isaiah refers to Lucifer’s remnant – son and grandson. Does Satan have sons and grandsons? Also, God not only speaks of Lucifer, but of the whole empire of Babylon with him.
Lucifer’s Judgment Fulfilled
Isaiah prophesied these words – and they came to pass centuries later. The nation of Babylon is no more, and the once glorious Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon and head of gold (Daniel 2), came to be humbled (Daniel 4).
Why was the king of Babylon humbled? Because in his heart and with his mouth he declared, “I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north. I will go up above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.”
Where and when did Nebuchadnezzar think and say such things?
Daniel 4:29-33 MKJV“…..
http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/satan.htmTake a look at context before you assume things.
2. God condemning the actions of the evil one that you claim God created as “evil”:
God hardened Pharaohs heart and still brought out his wonders and plagues to punish him, so whats the problem with that logic?
I'll prove it to you.
Exodus 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.Exodus 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
God Hardens the heart of Pharaoh for for His own glory.
Romans 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.Quote Cains fear of a “populated earth”
God validates Cains fear of those outside the garden.
Cain finds a wife in “Nod” (a Nodite settlement)
I never argued against this.Quote If your theology is based strictly on the current Bible then your world view is severely restricted which will handicap further discussion and any possible mind expansion. The Bible, as it exists today having been redacted and edited, contains multiple themes and can be “cherry picked” to justify any of the thousands of different doctrines based on those extrapolations. It requires, just a little common sense, to follow the spiritual content.
I never said that my beliefs are based on the current bible.
Yes the bible is flawed and corrupted.
However, common sense can't be used to understand the Word of God. Having the ability to read, or even being intelligent would cause a person to have the honor to understand the Word of God. If you don't know the Author than you woudn't know what is truly from Him, nor whats not His.For example, If I write a letter and send it to a person that I know. They would know by my hand writing, language, grammer, word choices that its truly Dennison who sent that letter. If a person doesn't know me, than they wouldn't know the difference. When it comes to truth, its the same.
God is not limited to the bible, whats spiritual is not revealed by common sense, but by revelation.Thanks,
Dennison
Hi SimplyForgiven,The “Word of God” is a living spiritual presence as taught and practiced by Jesus. It appears that you already know this truth, the Bible authors never claimed to be writing the “word of God” or an idolatrous fetish. The Bible “refers” to the word of God but does not claim to be the word of God, that was left to latter generations of authoritarian religious men who use the concept to control the masses.
God is not a book although it is tempting to make God a book because the faith relationship with the unseen God frightens people and seems difficult, hence the creation of creeds, doctrines, traditions and ceremonies as a substitute.
Isaiah……so I see you use Isaiah yourself with a “presumptive context” yet when I use the metaphor, commonly attributed to “day star” or Lucifer, then suddenly that is to be taken as literally referring to one man or a king of Babylon and NOT the devils evil influence over Babylon. Suit yourself, I disagree.
Based then on your bias towards God creating an evil counterpart to suit his diabolical purpose, I feel it futile to point to Rev 12:9 “This great dragon–the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world–was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.”
I believe that the evil One and his deluded followers in the celestial world had at one time been entrusted with authority and power as an administrator in the descending chain of command. I believe that he fell in love with himself and lost faith in the “unseen Father of all”. He then attempted to do the undoable, make himself “God of this world” launching an ideological “war in heaven”.
The Lucifer rebellion was ultimately terminated as the Son of God himself defeated the rebels in a righteous demonstration of the living Father in the Sons life on earth.
Lets agree to disagree and save time and board space.
Colter
Hi Colters,
The writers of the scriptures are men who have known the truth and know Jesus Christ. They write to those who are like themselves.
Yes very corrupted men have used the bible to control masses, as you have said. I agree.Quote Isaiah……so I see you use Isaiah yourself with a “presumptive context” yet when I use the metaphor, commonly attributed to “day star” or Lucifer, then suddenly that is to be taken as literally referring to one man or a king of Babylon and NOT the devils evil influence over Babylon. Suit yourself, I disagree.
You don't understand what I disagree about. I don't believe that that specfic text is a metaphor about how the devil rebelled against God and fell from heaven. I do however agree it does refer to an evil influence over Babylon.
You should have read the link I sent you.Quote Based then on your bias towards God creating an evil counterpart to suit his diabolical purpose, I feel it futile to point to Rev 12:9 “This great dragon–the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world–was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.”
Im not biased, actually I use to believe as you did, which is why im familar with your arguements. The Devil was permited to destroy Jobs life, yet this was permitted by God, with conditions of course. Yet God also has sent lying spirits. So than that proves what im saying, but of course Rev 12:9 is not discussing anything about a ancient rebellion but whats currently going on.Quote I believe that the evil One and his deluded followers in the celestial world had at one time been entrusted with authority and power as an administrator in the descending chain of command. I believe that he fell in love with himself and lost faith in the “unseen Father of all”. He then attempted to do the undoable, make himself “God of this world” launching an ideological “war in heaven”.
This is what I disagree with. This portion right here. Isaiah doesn't support this idea, its pure speculation on your part.Quote Lets agree to disagree and save time and board space
Thats up to you, I more than willing to continue.Dennison
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 24 2012,06:48) Hi Colters, The writers of the scriptures are men who have known the truth and know Jesus Christ. They write to those who are like themselves.
Yes very corrupted men have used the bible to control masses, as you have said. I agree.Quote Isaiah……so I see you use Isaiah yourself with a “presumptive context” yet when I use the metaphor, commonly attributed to “day star” or Lucifer, then suddenly that is to be taken as literally referring to one man or a king of Babylon and NOT the devils evil influence over Babylon. Suit yourself, I disagree.
You don't understand what I disagree about. I don't believe that that specfic text is a metaphor about how the devil rebelled against God and fell from heaven. I do however agree it does refer to an evil influence over Babylon.
You should have read the link I sent you.Quote Based then on your bias towards God creating an evil counterpart to suit his diabolical purpose, I feel it futile to point to Rev 12:9 “This great dragon–the ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, the one deceiving the whole world–was thrown down to the earth with all his angels.”
Im not biased, actually I use to believe as you did, which is why im familar with your arguements. The Devil was permited to destroy Jobs life, yet this was permitted by God, with conditions of course. Yet God also has sent lying spirits. So than that proves what im saying, but of course Rev 12:9 is not discussing anything about a ancient rebellion but whats currently going on.Quote I believe that the evil One and his deluded followers in the celestial world had at one time been entrusted with authority and power as an administrator in the descending chain of command. I believe that he fell in love with himself and lost faith in the “unseen Father of all”. He then attempted to do the undoable, make himself “God of this world” launching an ideological “war in heaven”.
This is what I disagree with. This portion right here. Isaiah doesn't support this idea, its pure speculation on your part.Quote Lets agree to disagree and save time and board space
Thats up to you, I more than willing to continue.Dennison
Hello SimplyForgiven,“In its true essence, religion is a faith-trust in the goodness of God. God could be great and absolute, somehow even intelligent and personal, in philosophy, but in religion God must also be moral; he must be good. Man might fear a great God, but he trusts and loves only a good God. This goodness of God is a part of the personality of God, and its full revelation appears only in the personal religious experience of the believing sons of God.”
I do not believe as you do, that God is sadistic, double minded, sending lying spirits to trick his fragile children. I believe God to be good and trustworthy.
The human heart can be wicked, not God. Men blame any number of things on the devil when in fact it came from their own mind or desires.
By the way, Job is parabolic, it's not a true story but a worldly wise response to the former belief in providence.
Much of the Bible is a retrospective written long after the fact. Originally man was of the thinking that God makes good and evil things happen. But as the bible evolves we can see an improvement in it's morality. A good example if where God was originally blamed for forcing David to number Israel, but latter that idea was dropped in favour of blaming Satan. Considering that you believe that he Evil Satan was a creation of a Good God, both of those explanations may appear to be the same in your theory.
The life of Jesus, the Son of God, should be proof enough that God is good and trustworthy while Satan was evil.
Colter
Colter,
(Where are you quoting from?)
Consider,
A Father who disciplines his child is good, though his child may see the discipline as evil.
Hebrews 12:5-9
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?Fact is that he did send a lying spirit, but not to his child. He sent it to someone who he wanted to destroy yetttt was warned by Micaiah about what was really going on.
1 Kings 22Some how you assume that God sent a lying spirit to his child?
I do agree that many people blame the devil for a things that really concern thier own carnal minds and desires.
To you Job is a parable, there isn't any warrents that say otherwise. If you believe Job to be a parable, than might as well believe that the Devil is the personafication of evil.
Quote The life of Jesus, the Son of God, should be proof enough that God is good and trustworthy while Satan was evil.
Not that I disagree, but you just contradicted yourself. You first talk about how the bible “evolves” and retrospective, and than you talk about how the life of Jesus as something as proof.
If YOU believe your reference is evolving, and restrospective, than the life of Jesus woudn't be “proof” enough, because its a evolving story and restropective.In your past post you talked about “cherry picking” and it seems that you simply cherry picked about what you feel like believing and disregarded everything else as a parable.
Correcting evil, isn't evil, its actually good. Evil see's correction as evil, but the wise one see's it as nessary.
Dennison
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 23 2012,01:36) Exactly David. Buddhists don't believe in a creator.
And Buddism is a religion.Buddabing buddha boing.
Atheism is a religion. A belief that requires faith and trust that it is the correct belief.
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2012,23:51) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2012,18:42) We know that lightning exists, but Zeus isnt causing it.
How do we know Zeus isn't causing it?Stuart
You trip over names.Logic demands a creator.
Experience is the only thing that proves who the creator is.
Can't be worked out with a test tube.
No belief in God is foolish. The realm of fools according to scripture. I agree. Take the eternal God away, and you have nothing or an eternal non-living entity that created life anyway.
Staring you in the face.
Don't forget to turn away now and pretend you don't understand.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2012,20:15) Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 23 2012,01:36) Exactly David. Buddhists don't believe in a creator.
And Buddism is a religion.Buddabing buddha boing.
Atheism is a religion. A belief that requires faith and trust that it is the correct belief.
Hi T8,Quote Buddism is a religion.
Yes it is. Even if they do not believe in a creator God, they do believe in various gods and angels. And they have faith that these things exist.Quote Buddabing buddha boing. 
I like that, it is funny.Quote
Atheism is a religion. A belief that requires faith and trust that it is the correct belief.
I think that you are using language to suit your purpose. Your definition conveniently lacks one of the central aspects of what a religion most often is (a belief in gods or the supernatural.)
An atheist simply does not believe that a god exists.
What you are maintaining is that the lack of belief in the tooth fairy is a religion, or that not believing in Santa Clause is a religion. Most people interested in an honest dialogue would not even consider making a statement like that.Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Oct. 26 2012,00:15) Yes it is. Even if they do not believe in a creator God, they do believe in various gods and angels. And they have faith that these things exist.
And scientists believe that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe.So not a religion.
Makes perfect sense TimothyVI.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2012,20:18) Logic demands a creator.
Logic says that created things were made by a creator.Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2012,21:27) And scientists believe that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe.
And do lawyers also believe this? And what would the difference be between such a belief in these two different groups?Stuart
If they believe that, then that is a belief is it not.
You see, even you are religious just like the Buddhists who don't believe in God. You have faith, beliefs etc. You accept and reject certain things because you trust them to be so, even though you have not one ounce of proof.
And you even have your very own prophet too. How is prophet Hawking these days.
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 26 2012,00:27) Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2012,20:18) Logic demands a creator.
Logic says that created things were made by a creator.Stuart
Logic says that all things were created, came from nothing, or have always existed in some form.See wasn't so hard. Come on I know you refused to debate me on this because you knew you would lose. But would be a little honorable of you if you were honest and addressed this properly. And “I don't know” is a good answer because it is honest. Until that day, you have been stumped and are still stumped.
Stumped: Be at a loss; be unable to work out what to do or say.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 25 2012,21:40) If they believe that, then that is a belief is it not. You see, even you are religious just like the Buddhists who don't believe in God. You have faith, beliefs etc. You accept and reject certain things because you trust them to be so, even though you have not one ounce of proof.
I don't count trust and faith as the same thing. Faith is believing without empirical evidence, and trust is believing with empirical evidence. I can't think of anything that I do on faith in this sense.Stuart
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