A coincidence or a creation?

Participant

Quote (selah @ Mar. 01 2010,15:57)

Thanks Georg for your answer that you believe Romanism is one of the beasts, and that it is the second beast … we agree.

That being clear, I would like to move on slowly and carefully.

As you had offered earlier if asked, I would now like your thought as to whether the image, mark and number of the beast is more closely associated with the first or second beast?
I am not sure that scripture is ABSOLUTELY clear on this, as there are those conflicting views, but I would still be interested in knowing what leads you to your conclusion.

I believe it is the second beast, but I am biased because my scenario is based upon the evidence that Romanism is the False Prophet (or 2nd beast).

How about you … could it be that we agree on something else?

selah

You ask.

((I would now like your thought as to whether the image, mark and number of the beast is more closely associated with the first or second beast?))

The “mark” is of the first beast.
The image and number, the second beast.

What led me to this conclusion?
The “mark” of the first beast, the CROSS.
Long before Jesus was born a man, the Romans used the cross to execute criminals. Then in 312 AD, Constantine was preparing to fight his brother-in-law Maxentius for the title of being the sole emperor of Rome; he had a dream in which he saw a red cross in the heaven with the inscription under it, “under this sign conquer”. He painted red crosses on the shields of his army, and won the battle. He credited the victory to the God of this new religion “Christianity”, which before he had persecuted; in 313 AD he stopped all persecution. Even crusaders later would fight under this sign.
All that, and the fact that Jesus too was nailed to the cross, made the cross the “mark” of the beast/Rome.

Why is the second beast, out of the earth, referred to as the “image” of the first beast/Rome?
The second beast structured it self after the first.
The pope; the emperor.
The cardinals; the senators.
The bishops; the governors.
The priests, and monks; the mayors.

The number 666 of the second beast.
The pope has an inscription on his crown in Latin.
V I C A R I V S – F I L I I – D E I
Meaning; “Vicar of the son of God”
As you know, some Latin letters have a numerical value also.
V =5
I =1
C =100
A =0
R =0
I =1
V =5
S =0

F =0
I =1
L =50
I =1
I =1

D =500
E =0
I =1
———–
666 TOTAL

Georg

March 1, 2010 at 1:02 pm#181351

Participant

It says that the whole world would follow after the beast. The pope is not followed after the whole world. Mohammed isn't either, but because the quran denies Jesus as being the son of god and he is a prophet, he is more than likely the false prophet. Elvis is the most likely “man of pardition” because he is called “The King” by the world. He is also worshiped. He is inferred in the book of Wisdom too.

March 1, 2010 at 4:46 pm#181355

Participant

mike

The Bible also says, Rome ruled the “whole” world, did they?

Georg

March 1, 2010 at 8:58 pm#181399

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 02 2010,02:02)

Hmm and also does the whole world mean the whole world or just the middle east? Basically the whole middle east is following Mohammad. And its growing by the day. Just a thought.
Elvis? I hope your joking.

March 1, 2010 at 11:45 pm#181441

selah

Participant

Mike … all in the Bible is not “always” to be understood literally.

The New Testament states that the gospel was preached “in all the world.” Was it? Just as Georg commented regarding Rome, “did they”?

Regarding the whole world following after the beast.
You are part of this “whole world” … would you be following after him? … I think not.

Therefore, is this to be understood 100% literally?

Example:

In the case of pope John Paul II, I know of no other person that could draw crowds like him … wherever he went “in the whole world”. He was called the “Superstar of the Vatican”, and it was not just Roman Catholics that were drawn to him.

March 1, 2010 at 11:59 pm#181443

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 02 2010,07:58)

Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 02 2010,02:02)

No, I'm not. His authority was only to last 42 months, He was 42 when he died. He is agknowledged by the whole world as “The King” , 74 just like the opening post. He is worshiped and his followers and princes are honored even though their lyrics are sacreligious. Nobody believes this but I believe its true.Godbless.

March 2, 2010 at 12:15 am#181445

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 02 2010,12:59)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 02 2010,07:58)

Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 02 2010,02:02)

Thats so funny lol, what about the king of pop- Micheal Jackson? or the queen of rock- (was that Tina Turner?)

Hey that could be a trinity!
People DO worship them. Just look at concerts.

I used to think the beast was the internet- 666 = www, still a possibility mind you. As could be Elvis.

March 2, 2010 at 4:03 am#181462

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 02 2010,10:59)

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 02 2010,07:58)

Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 02 2010,02:02)

mike

How do you compare 42 month with 42 years? makes no sense to me at all.
Besides, how do you apply all the bad things that this man of sin has done to Elvis?

Georg

March 2, 2010 at 4:15 am#181464

Ed J

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 01 2010,21:10)

Hi all,

What interests me the most out of the book of revelation is the fact that the whole world is decieved;
When you are being decieved, you dont know you are being decieved.

When I did a keyword search on the word deceived these 2 book verses matched, I dont know if it means anything?

Jeremiah 49:16
Your fierceness has deceived you, The pride of your heart, O you who dwell in the clefts of the rock, Who hold the height of the hill!
Though you make your nest as high as the eagle, I will bring you down from there,” says the LORD.

Obadiah 1:3
The pride of your heart has deceived you, You who dwell in the clefts of the rock, Whose habitation is high; You who say in your heart, ‘Who will bring me down to the ground?’

==============

In the words of Jesus we have:

-And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. (Matthew 24:4)

-For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. (Matthew 24:5)

– For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

==============

Then in revelations;

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world;
he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Revelation 12:9)

And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast,
telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. (Revelation 13:14)

The light of a lamp shall not shine in you anymore, and the voice of bridegroom and bride shall not be heard in you anymore.
For your merchants were the great men of the earth, for by your sorcery all the nations were deceived. (Revelation 18:23)

Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence,
by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.
These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. (Revelation 19:20)

and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him,
so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished.
But after these things he must be released for a little while. (Revelation 20:3)

and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog,
to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. (Revelation 20:8)

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are.
And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

===============

So- whatever it means, most are being decieved without realising it. Thats a key point I think.

Hi Karmarie,

Look at this…

God made these three specific promises to Abraham's seed. He said that his seed would be as plenty as the…

1) “Dust of the Earth”=170 (Gen. 13:16)
2) “Stars of Heaven”=153 (Gen. 26:4)
3) “Sand of the Sea”=117 (Gen. 32:12)

It’s interesting to note that the very same language is used in Rev. 20:8
where Satan goes about in battle to deceive the nations, He is going against God’s people
(the people of “GOD The Father”=117) to deceive, whose number is AS the “SAND OF THE SEA”=117.

AKJV: Rev. 20:8: And (Satan) shall go out to deceive
the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog,
to gather them together to battle: THE NUMBER of whom is as the “sand of the sea“=117.

God bless
Ed J

March 2, 2010 at 4:34 am#181465

Participant

Karmarie
Here's the difference. Like you said, Jackson was referred to as “the king of pop”, Aretha-“Queen of soul”. Elvis is just “The King”.Mind you, I'm not talking about the man Elvis. The man Elvis was trapped by his celebrity. he could not even go out in public. He would remonstrate people for calling him “The King”. At one of his performances in Vegas, a lady came up to the stage with a crown on a pillow to present it to him, and he said”what's that for?” She said” You, because you're the king” He said “no mam, Jesus is the King”. After he died, the world did whatever they wanted to with him. He became larger than life. Bilboards around here say (I live near Memphis) “Elvis lives” . Also there are some that say “Enter the blingdom” with a picture of him in a cape spread out like wings. Every year on his “death day” thousands of people from around the world come for Elvis week. It culminates with a candlelight vigil where they all process in front of his gravesite. The news calls them”the faithful” and “pilgrims”. Nobody bats an eye. After he introduced Rock, coupled with the introduction of the pill and the 60's, things radically changed. He himself didn't like it. He died a broken man, a prisoner of his own making. The book of Wisdom describes what happened next and the condition of society today. This chapter, 14, describes the evils of idolatry, and I believe what happened after he died. Wis 14v12 “For the source of wantonness is the devising of idols; and their invention was a corruption of life. For in the beginning they were not, nor shall they continue forever; for by the vanity of men they came into the world, and therefore a sudden end is devised for them. For a Father, afflicted with untimely mourning, made an image of the child so quickly taken away from him, And honored as a god what was formerly a dead man and passed down to his subjects mysteries and sacrifices (Vernon Prestly was leader of the estate and the rumors were incessant, also his image was trademarked and sold) Then, in time, the impious practice gained strength and was observed as law, and graven things were worshiped by princely decrees(the aformentioned death day and the bronze statue of him at the end of beale st.) Men who lived so far away that they could not honor him in his presance copied the appearance of the distant king, And made a public image of him they wished to honor out of zeal to flatter him when absent, as though present. (In a suburb of Jerusalem there is a shrine to Elvis, And on 'death day' and 'birth day' impersonators from around Israel come and perform dressed like Elvis) And to promote this observance to those to whom it was strange, the artisian's ambition provided a stimulus. For he, mayhap in his determination to please the ruler, labored over the likeness to the best of his skill;(in front of the shrine there is a large gold statue of Elvis holding a star of David)And the masses, drawn by the charm of the workmanship, soon thought he should be worshiped who shortly before was honored as a man.And this became a snare for mankind, that men enslaved to either grief or tyranny, conferred the incommunicable name on stocks and stones (Incommunicable name being 'The King”, stocks being that EPE is a publically traded stock earning 48.7 million a year 30+ years after his death, stones being all the statues erected around the world and the myrad of them you can buy online) Then it was not enough for them to err in thier knowledge of God; but even though they live in a great war of ignorance, they call such evils peace.(Nov. 30, 2007, on the front page, there was a picture of an Israeli impersonator, and under it, in bold letters, stated 'ELVIS=PEACE IN ISRAEL', and the story was about how Elvis was a “symbol of hope amid fleeting hopes in the middle east”)(Now here is where it describes society today after what happened) For while they celebrate child-slaying sacrifices(abortions) or clandestine mysterys,(psycics,astrology, new age,scientology etc.) or frenzied carousals in unheard of rites(ever been to a rock concert, especially hard rock?) They no longer safeguard either lives or pure wedlock; but each either waylays and kills his neighbor, or aggrives him by adultry(John edwards, Sanford in argentina, alot of people I know even preachers and priest)(And here comes society today) And all is confusion-blood and murder, theft and guile, corruption, fatithlessness, turmoil, perjury, Disturbance of good men, neglect of gratitude, besmirching of souls, unnatural lust, disorder in marriage, adultry and shamelessness. (And the big finish) FOR THE WORSHIP OF INFAMIOUS IDOLS IS THE REASON AND SOURCE AND EXTREMITY OF ALL EVIL(emphasis added). Man that is what is going on to me today. Also I know that the vision of the hellenistic wars in Daniel had a short term fulfillment, there are alot of funny parallels-Dan10v16″ He shall conclude an agreement with him and give him a daughter in marriage in order to destroy the kingdom, but this shall not work out in his favor” (Lisa Marie and the aformentioned King of pop) v26″even his table companions shall seek to destroy him(Red West and a few other members of the 'Memphis Mafia' wrote a tell all book that chrushed him )v27 “The two kings,resolved on evil, shall sit at table and excange lies”(remember the ridiculous meeting between him and Nixon where he wanted to become an undercover DEA agent?) v31 “Armed forces will move at his command and defile the santuary stronghold, abolishing the daily sacrifice and setting up the horrible abomination”(In front of the shrine in Jerusalem, A GOLD STATUE)v38 “a god unknown to his fathers he shall glorify with gold, silver, precious stones, and other treasures”(Elvis' jumpsuits are charicteristicly fixed with all kinds) I'm just sayin. Also the lyrics to Ozzy,AC/DC,G-n-R, Megedeth, Judus Priest(the names themselves say it all) are horrid. Nobody seems to care. People are walking around with skulls tattoed all over. Its clear to me. I especially can't stand the Elvis' in vegas performing marriages or the “first Preslyterian Church” Can you believe it? I hope Jesus comes soon, He is “THE KING” Psalm 98v6″With trumpets and the sound of the horn,sing joyfully before THE KING,the Lord”.(emphasis added) Ps 99v1-” The Lord is King;the peoples tremble;he is throned upon the cheribim;the earth quakes.(more and more lately)……..v4 “THE KING in his might loves justice” Godbless

March 2, 2010 at 5:24 am#181467

selah

Participant

Georg … I will respond to your clearly explained post shortly.

March 2, 2010 at 7:58 am#181474

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 02 2010,17:15)

Hi Karmarie,

Look at this…

God made these three specific promises to Abraham's seed. He said that his seed would be as plenty as the…

1) “Dust of the Earth”=170 (Gen. 13:16)
2) “Stars of Heaven”=153 (Gen. 26:4)
3) “Sand of the Sea”=117 (Gen. 32:12)

God bless
Ed J

Hi Ed

I personally feel that it simply means = the people who go up to battle -are many.

'as the sand of the sea' = numerous in number, just too many to count, covering every bit of the ' battlefield' .
There could be a connection with the wording of Genisis, but I myself dont think so.

The Adventists taught that these were all the resurrected people who had been left behind with Satan. Which is why you have such a big ammount.
Then again, the Eastern Orthodox have an even different explanation of the whole book which is pretty interesting.

March 2, 2010 at 8:25 am#181482

Participant

Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 02 2010,17:34)

Hi Mikeangel, that was an interesting read, thanks!

The first time I ever read the book of Revelation – from start to end- I really did think that the second beast, was the television.

It was like a lamb (seemed innocent enough) and 2 horns (aeriels), it was given a mouth that it could speak (there you go= sound came later), and it did miracles (aha), even causing fire to come down from the sky (look at the movies these days). I was SO CONVINCED, I googled it, and found out I was pretty much alone in my idea! So I figured maybe it was just everyone else decieved. I pictured all the world in their homes at night sitting around the tv in a trance (which happens), and it sure isnt innocent any longer! it just all figured for me.

But on reading on, I found it couldnt possibly be! The beasts are then called kingdoms. A tv cant really be classed as a kingdom (or at least I dont think).

You say Elvis is the one. You have the same problem as I did. If we are unable to buy or sell unless we recieve the number of the beast or his name on our foreheads or right hand, um- that hasnt happened with Elvis, or the tv.

Sorry Mike, but we could be wrong. But – you just never know! The whole world is decieved which means they are not aware of
what it actually is!

March 2, 2010 at 8:44 pm#181536

selah

Participant

Thanks Georg,

Very interesting that you separate the mark from the image and number. I know of no other expositor that does that, but it does seem to “fit” using your HISTORICAL evidence. I will be running this by a friend who has been studying the question presented.

My own scenario is “similar” to yours yet different regarding the image. However, we agree that the sign of the cross is the biblical mark.

I enjoy discussing and questioning our subjects slowly and carefully as we are.

We know that all believers will not agree with your historical scenario, but for our discussion, let us assume that it is historically correct and lines up with the scriptural identifying information.

The next part of the question will likely be more difficult to “prove”. “I don't know” as an answer is perfectly acceptable by me … I use it frequently!

If we confine ourselves to the Book of Revelation ONLY … using NO historical events etc..
Can you point to passages within these 22 chapters that clearly prove beyond a doubt that the image mark and number is associated with one or the other of the two beasts?

I am of the opinion that it cannot be done proof positive … I am not aware of any theologians that have.
I had one fellow tell me that the image mark and number were associated with one or the other of the beasts (I can't recall which) because he cited the passage that describes the beast and the false prophet being cast into the fire together. I am sure it was “proof” for him but it did nothing for me.

To be honest, the only thing that sways me within these 22 chapters, is that the first beast is mentioned in the beginning of chapter 13, but no mention is made of the image mark and number until AFTER the second beast is noted, eleven verses later.

That the references to the image mark and number only occuring after the mention of the second beast is a weak argument to be sure, but I see nothing else that is difinitive.

Historically we can piece it together, but biblically it may be another kettle of fish.

March 3, 2010 at 3:19 am#181633

Participant

selah

I hope I understand you correctly, and will try what you ask, if I miss, it will be because I was not sure about your question.

The first reference to the second beast is made in

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

He is also called the impostor because he tried to appear as the rider in Rev. 19:11. He crowned himself, and made himself a ruler. His weapon is a weapon of violence, of bloodshed; and yes, he conquered almost the whole earth by deceit. While the weapon of the second rider is a two-edged sword, symbolic for the word of God; yes he too makes war, but it is against all evil.
Chapter 13 is really the chapter that talks about the second beast the most; what maybe confusing is the fact that the scriptures are not all in sequence. Let me try to align them for you.

Rev 13:11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

This is the impostor, he tried to appear as the Lamb of God, even called himself “VICAR” of the son of God.
What he spake, his doctrines, are a false gospel.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

When he began to rule, he ruled for, 42 month = 1260 days = 1260 years. He had become very influential over the Centuries before he actually ruled. He had prevented the Vandals from burning Rome, he also prevented Attila the Hun from invading Rome.

Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

He opened his mouth, he began to rule in 565 AD; blasphemed God by preaching a false gospel, and his tabernacle, the saints, by persecuting them.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

He made not only war with the saints, he tortured and killed them. He had power over the nations to rule, and control, until his power was taken away.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Even today, people worship him because they believe his lies, simply because he is such an imposing figure, but he no longer rules.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The western leg of the Roman empire had no emperor since 476 AD, and gradually the second beast took over the responsibilities of church “and” State.
In this scripture you can also see which head had received the deadly wound, v. 3; the first beast, Rome. And since Rome was still ruling from Constantinople, he made sure every one showed respect, worshiped, the “first” beast.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Justinian, the last emperor of the west and the east, died in 565 AD; now the second beast took over complete control over what used to be the western Roman empire. He not only became the image of the first beast, by structuring his “government” after Rome, but he ruled like Rome, by force and violence.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

He did not make real fire come down from heaven; fire is a term used to describe severe trials, 1 Pet. 1:7. “Heaven” is a place of authority, as heaven above is the place of all authority, Mat. 5:34. The Vatican was his heaven. In the sight of man? public torture and executions.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The miracles he performed in the sight of Rome, was, preventing the barbarians to invade, and burn Rome. He did not ask any one to make him the image, he insisted, you disagreed, you die.

ev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

This is not the dreaded number 666, notice it says “A MARK”, that means there are several marks that you can receive. In you “RIGHT HAND” means, you excepted them, in your “FOREHEAD” means, you believe them; what are they? his doctrines. If you dared to oppose him you were killed, he ruled by fear.

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

The question is, buy or sell what? He would not allow Bibles to be sold, or read, if you were caught having one, or reading one, you were killed. only those that had the name of the beast, second beast, “Roman Catholic” priest, were allowed to teach and preach the gospel according to him.

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

As I already explained in an earlier post, the name can also be a title.
The number 666 of the second beast.
The pope has an inscription on his crown in Latin.
V I C A R I V S – F I L I I – D E I
Meaning; “Vicar of the son of God”
As you know, some Latin letters have a numerical value also.
V =5
I =1
C =100
A =0
R =0
I =1
V =5
S =0

F =0
I =1
L =50
I =1
I =1

D =500
E =0
I =1
———–
666 TOTAL

I will stop here, and wait for you reply.

Georg

March 3, 2010 at 4:48 am#181643

Ed J

Participant

Quote (banana @ Dec. 17 2009,07:34)

my eyes got blurry from all the numbers.

Georg

Quote (Elizabeth @ Mar. 03 2010,14:19)

As you know, some Latin letters have a numerical value also.
V =5
I =1
C =100
A =0
R =0
I =1
V =5
S =0

F =0
I =1
L =50
I =1
I =1

D =500
E =0
I =1
———–
666 TOTAL
Georg

Quote (banana @ Dec. 17 2009,23:52)

is that what your numbers are telling you?

Georg

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 26 2010,13:20)

I would have no problem doing what you proposed, but I have two conditions;
one, you stop misquoting me.
two, you leave your numbers in the drawer.

Georg

Quote (banana @ Dec. 15 2009,18:03)

I knew that remark I made …would come back and bit me, …it is nevertheless the truth.

Look at all the fictitious “truth” books that have been written on “Antichrist”,- the rapture,- Armageddon,- 666,

Georg

Hi Georg.

If you use Gematria everything is fine and dandy,
but if I use Gematria you have a problem with it?
Seems you have a problem of being a hypocrite; huh?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

March 3, 2010 at 6:20 am#181654

Participant

Ed, YOU ARE NUTS AND YOU KNOW IT!

GEORG

March 3, 2010 at 11:26 am#181672

Participant

I compare the bad things Elvis did to the beast in being #1- I hear all the time people refer him an “The King”. To me thats blasphemous. Music is the oldest media there is. There are flutes dating back way before history. After languages were established came lyrics and songs. The meanings to the songs reflect and whats popular reflect what the people want,feel, and believe. King David, whose throne was established forever through Jesus, was God inspired in his songs and lyrics(psalms). Inspiration is the launching board for all the arts, and they can be good or they can be bad. Although Elvis sung Gospel, he did not live out good values. I believe that was a distraction to what really happened. He gave the people what they wanted and his image was one of money and popularity. Even before he died the, the music style had turned to the worst part of humanity, a hypocritical, evil , godless sprit.' Imagine ' from John Lennon, was about peace. Good seeming, but it was about peace through no god “imaging theres no heaven,it's easy if you try, no hell below us, above us only sky”. It only got worse from there, but a common theme was sex, drugs, and rock and roll(God said”is there any rock but me?”) Right now, at NFL and NBA games, at timeout and media breaks, they sometimes play” hells bells “. You can notice it because it begins with a tolling of a large bell. Nobody cares to notice the lyrics, but they tell you satans taking you to hell and theres nothing you can do about it. “Won't take no prisoners, won't spare no lives, nobodys puttin up a fight, we got the power gonna take you to hell, were gonna get ya, satan get ya, hells bells” later”if youre into evil your a friend of mine”. Noone complains. Austrailia treats them like favored sons. Besides them look at Ozzy, Metallica, Guns and roses etc. Just google thier lyrics and tell me theyre not evil. You older people will be out of the picture and it will be paramount to any music. The people who have never been to church and heard a good inspired hymn will only have this in thier heads. Also look at any rock concert video, especially hard rock. They hold thier hands up with thier index finger and pinky fingers up, like horns, it's thier sign. Also many gangs use some form of this. I know not many people believe this but it's true. The 60's generation spawned “a whole new breed of men without souls” and they turned into the greedy me me mes that caused us to be in this incredible mess that the government will not be able fix. The roots of this , however, began before Elvis. Sitting in an airport with alot of time to kill, I started reading the passages in my passport at the top of the pages. I came to page 20 and 21. At the top, it states “For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest sleeping in the unplowed ground. Is our world gone? We say “Farewell” Is a new world coming? We welcome it-and we will bend it to the hopes of man. -Lyndon B. Johnson” Not hopes of God, hopes of man.

March 3, 2010 at 12:12 pm#181674

Participant

Also while I'm at it, I read in this post someone write something about us being Babylon. I believe this is true. Like I wrote before, I believe that in Daniel the were short term and long term fulfilments. In Chapter 2, about the four part statue, the short term fulfilment was 1-the Babylonians,2-the Median,3-the persian,and 4-the Hellenistic. The long term was the powers that were to rule the world. The first was the Babylonians v-38 “he has handed over to you, making you ruler over them all”. They did rule the whole 'known world'. The second was the Romans. They were the next to rule the whole 'known world'. The next one it states differently, the bronze one. It says it would rule “v-39 of bronze, which shall rule over the whole earth” That would be the British. They dominated the world “the sun never sets on the British empire”. v-40″There shall be a fourth kingdom, strong as Iron; it shall break is pieces and subdue all these others………41 it shall be a divided kingdom… they shall seal thier alliances by intermarriage but they will not stay united, any more than iron mixes with clay.” This brings to mind to me how the blacks and whites, as hard as they try, cannot unite. Not being racist, that is just how it is. To me the good news is that it doesn't mention another, that in the lifetime of those kings the god of heaven will establish another kingdom that will not be destroyed or delievered up and stand forever(Gods kingdom). That tells me that we won't be forclosed on and become a republic of China, or under Mohammed. Curiously enough, the prophecy of St Malachey( the one started in the middle ages about all the popes until the last one) ends with the death of this pope. I see prophecy fulfilled in a special way. For example, it says that in the last days a remanant would return to God in Israel. There is a growing messianic jewish movement in Israel(jews that believe in Jesus-Google Sid Roth). Lastly, to the question of weather the beast had the power to kill, there is more than one form of death. There is spiritual death and psysical death. If a person turns away from god they are spritually dead. Likewise, as far as this world goes, when a person turns away from chasing wealth and lives for God they are dead to this world, and the differance is wide. I do think the second beast is the media. It changed Elvis from a local figure to a worldwide figure. I saw on 'america, funniest home videos' a English guard aksing a group of kids who the king was. A little girl answered “Elvis”. It made it onto the show. Also in the very next chapter of Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar set up a golden statue (sound familiar in my post?) for everyone to worship whenever they heard the sound of an instrument. Just too many similaritys. Godbless

March 3, 2010 at 3:33 pm#181681