A coincidence or a creation?

Participant

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 17 2010,22:04)

Quote (terraricca @ April 17 2010,16:17)

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 16 2010,21:44)

terraricca

How many great tribulations are there?

Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Jacob's trouble meaning Israel's trouble.

Dan 12:1 ¶ And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The children of thy, Daniel's people, were the Jews.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Jeremiah and Daniel are very clear who will be in trouble, and will be saved out of it; is Jesus speaking of another great tribulation? there can only be one greatest tribulation ever.
The question you might have is; who are the elect?

Deu 7:6 ¶ For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Georg

georg

there is only one left for the end;human race.

Jer;30;7 applies to Israel 70 AD.
Dan;12;1 applies to Israel 70 AD
Mat 24;14-44 applies to Israel 70AD and secondly in part only to the great tribulation of his return.

Deu;7;6 applies to faithful believers in Christ.
Isa;45;4-8 applies to Christ and is followers.
Isa;65;17-25 applies to the millennium.

Rom 11 ;28 this applies to all Israel who have not accepted Christ but remain attached to the law,they will be part of the second resurrection and so closing the door

Sorry terraricca, I'm not even in the mood to straighten out so much confusion.

Georg

georg

take your time but read all the scriptures i have quoted,and understand it in the truth

April 17, 2010 at 11:07 pm#187559

Participant

Hi Karmarie,

It seems that there are many divergent opinions as to the nature of the rider on the first white horse. I have a list of a dozen or more scholars that differ, yet they both offer some convincing evidence.

But you are right, most believe this rider to be opposed to Christ.

Regarding the link you provided. I would not totally agree that white always indicates purity.

That writer may have overlooked the point that the beast personage appears “like a lamb” … ie a counterfeit.

I think most would agree that 99% of lambs are white.
I will post my evidence that this specific rider is opposed to Christ … and I agree with most of what Georg said about the subject.

April 17, 2010 at 11:56 pm#187561

Participant

THE RIDER, HIS BOW AND HIS CROWN

Georg … regarding the rider on the first white horse with bow and crown that went forth conquering, and to conquer. Rev 6:2.

I agree with your assessment that the rider on the first white horse had (and has) a direct association with promoting a false gospel. Romanism definitely does not teach unmerited grace. And yes, the papacy had (and has) power over kings that possess military strength, and the papacy did sponsor the crusades, and you are right about him crowning himself..
There is no doubt that Romanism (particularly during the “Dark Ages”) went forth conquering and to conquer.

As I had indicated in an earlier post, during the last days, “peace” is one of the papal weapons of deception according to Daniel.

Even though all these things you have said about the papacy are correct, every author that I have read (including yourself) are in error to associate the “bow” in this particular passage with violence or a “weapon”. The following comments are from my unpublished booklet:

Those who look for a military type person as being “the” antichrist err in reasoning that this “bow” is a weapon.

The New Testament never uses this word to mean a weapon. Of it's five New Testament occurrences, four of them mean to bend or to “bow down”. That was pope John Paul II's distinguishing trademark. Upon his arrival at the host country, he would “bow” to the ground and kiss it.

The fifth and final occurrence of this word is found in the verse under discussion Rev 6:2 the rider with bow and crown. Oddly enough, its use in this particular verse means neither “weapon” … nor to “bow down”.

This particular “bow” is from the Greek form meaning “cloth”. The word “crown” is from the Greek “stepho” meaning … to twine or wreathe. This rider is in some way associated with “cloth that is wreathed”.

That is the perfect description for the pope's “Triple Tiara” crown. It is unlike any of the solid gold or silver crowns of Europe, as it is weaved of “cloth of gold.”
New Educator Encyclopaedia Vol 9 pg 3575.

According to Vatican dogma, the pope's three tiered crown signifies his authority in three realms:

on earth
in heaven
in hell

I believe the following passage is the connection to Vatican City's three tiered crown.

And the great city was divided into THREE PARTS and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. Rev 16:19. I believe that some reading this may literally witness God's total destruction of that great city … Vatican City … Mystery Babylon

Regarding the rider on the first “white horse”.
Consider the vision that John of Patmos was given. If he was shown a vision of the huge crowds and pomp and ceremony of pope John Paul's arrival in the United States, bowing to the ground and kissing it, how might he describe the converted (always white) Ford Bronco that carried the pope on his tour of the US … called the “popemobile”?
Might John describe it as … seeing a rider on a “white horse”?

John Paul II was one of the most charismatic and influential leaders of this century. The man who spearheaded the downfall of Communism … and all the world followed after the beast. Beast = primate = Primate of Rome.

Where were our prophecy experts … our “watchmen on the wall” when this event came to pass?
Preterists look to the past … futurists look to the future … who was looking to the present?
Only historicists saw and understood prophecy being fulfilled.

ccc

April 18, 2010 at 1:09 am#187567

Participant

Scripture indicates that as the day of the Lord draweth neigh, there will emerge upon the world scene, a final and specific person who will be the one opposed to, or in place of Christ whose name or titile will sum at 666.

One can not prove which language God designed to accomplish this “numbering of the beast”, for HE DID NOT TELL US.. However, if one considers the number-letter values of Hebrew and Greek, those languages can hardly be considered as adequate systems for a conclusive numeric identification.

The exceptionally high letter values of Hebrew and Greek (1-400 and 1-800) results in a simple name such as “John Doe” to sum at close to 2000!
Using Greek, James = 833 Peter = 755 Simon = 1100.

The high Hebrew values for only three letters … M R T … (the television character “Mr T”) sum at 640.
When short names such as Tom Dick or Harry can sum in the range of 600 700 or higher, it hardly makes for a useful or reliable confirmation or identification.
Scripture reveals the identity of the beast to observing students of prophecy (watchmen on the wall). The number 666 confirms that identification to those so inclined to calculate the number of the beast.

A negative feature of Hebrew and Greek (because of their high numeric values) cause these languages to be a hindrance rather than a help as a meaningful confirmation.

Critics frequently remark that it is easy to juggle names and titles to sum at 666. I challenge those critics to take the names of past or present religious or world leaders that indicate a BIBLICAL CONNECTION. Let them juggle names and authentic titles to their hearts content to produce one that sums at 666 … using simple English gematria A=1 … Z=26.

As a student of prophecy, in over 30 years of examining legitimate biblically identified possible suspects, only one summed at that figure … it is that difficult using simple English.

A Messianic website (Wordwide Witness) stated that John Paul II's name in Hebrew summed at 666 … YWhNn PWLWs SNY = 666
Another website stated that John Paul II's name in Latin summed at 666

There have been many names (Hitler, Gorbachev, Kissinger, and a host of others, including the present governor of California!!) that prophecy speculators “make” their suspect sum at 666 by using some ingenious letter number combinations. One is A=6 B=12 C=18 and another was A=101 B= 102 C = 103.

Not that this is conclusive, but I am not aware of any legitimate suspect summing at 666 in TWO DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.
I now add a third language to this evidence, using the most difficult language/number system of all to arrive at that sum.
Simple English gematria wherein A=1 … Z=26.

This simple numbering feature of our last days world common English language/alphabet greatly increases the factor of difficulty (statistics of probability) thus eliminating the ease of attaining that sum through short or chance names.

WHY DIDN'T GOD STATE THE LANGUAGE TO BE USED? BECAUSE IT WAS NOT IN EXISTENCE IN THE DAY OF JOHN OF PATMOS.

You will recall my earlier examples of using this system with the following: … Jesus, Jewish, Messiah, Parables, Gospel, Y'shua etc..

JESUS = 74
JEWISH = 74
MESSIAH = 74

PARABLES = 74
GOSPEL = 74
Y'SHUA = 74 Do you think it mere coincidence that “simple English gematria” would also sum at 74?

SIMPLE = 74
ENGLISH = 74
GEMATRIA = 74

Where were our watchmen on the wall when the numbered beast and his followers with the mark on their right hand and forehead arrived?
Were they looking only to the past such as Nero … or to the never ending claims of the futurists? As Isaac Newton stated, the religious Jews did not recognize when the Messiah arrived … nor did our religious leaders recognize the anti messiah when he arrived.

THE IMAGE THAT SPEAKS AND HAS LIFE

A puff of white smoke rose from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel and the world of Roman Catholicism rejoiced. The Church of Peter was no longer without its “rock”.

The Vatican had successfully caused an image to be made of the previous “head that died”. The previous head of Romanism (Albino Luciani) had reigned for 33 days and died as Pope John Paul.

The wisp of white smoke indicated that by the required 66.6 % of the 111 Cardinals present had voted to select its “image of Peter”, its Papal Peter. Shortly after, Cardinal Pericle Felici announced:

“Habemus Papen” … We have a pope … “Qui sibi nomen imposuit JOANNES PAULUS SECUNDUS.”

He has chosen the name JOHN PAUL SECOND.

On October 16, 1978 history was made and prophecy fulfilled. At 6:44 pm

KAROL CARDINAL WOJTYLA ARCHBISHOP OF KRAKOW
became
POPE JOHN PAUL THE SECOND

KAROL = 57
CARDINAL = 62
WOJTYLA = 106
ARCHBISHOP = 99
OF = 21
KRAKOW = 79

POPE = 52
JOHN = 47
PAUL = 50
THE = 33
SECOND = 60

666

The first John Paul died by a mortal wound (some say murdered).
The second John Paul came to “life” and the whole world wondered after the beast … the PRIMATE of Rome.

When John Paul II toured the USA, former President Carter greeted him with “God blessed America by sending you to us.”
Billy Graham stated “He's the most respected religious leader in the world today.”

In 1970 (eight years prior to JP II) Robert Gromacki's comments on the expected anti-messiah reflected the views held by many students and scholars of Bible prophecy:

“This coming world leader will doubtless have a dynamic, magnetic personality. He will have that rare ability to move television and radio audiences plus live crowds with his appearance, decorum and eloquent pulpit oratory … There will be something different about him … he will follow an international policy of peace overtures … The word peace will be a weapon in his hands.”

Daniel told us that this little horn would not stay at home. John Paul II was the most travelled pope in the history of the Roman Church.
Daniel also told us that he would “have arms at his side”. Dan 11:31.

I originally thought this meant arms as in weapons, but on closer examination of this Hebrew word, it means arms “outstretched”. That was his trademark sign.
He would raise his arms in the shape of a horizontal bow encouraging the adulation for his followers and the world.

When this great charismatic personage burst upon the world scene he did not appear as an antichrist, but as a man whom the world adored. Religious and political leaders extoled his virtues. Those who recognized him were not believed, for “Christianity” would shun those who would call such a “saintly” person an antichrist or the beast of Revelation.

He drew monstrous crowds wherever he went, and not only Roman Catholics. He also spearheaded the fall of Communism in Poland and elsewhere.

Again, where were our watchmen on the wall? Were they asleep or looking in the wrong direction … were they only looking to the “future”?
How true the words … if possible even the very elect would be deceived.

ccc

April 18, 2010 at 3:30 am#187577

Ed J

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ April 17 2010,21:17)

Quote (Ed J @ April 17 2010,22:18)

Quote (karmarie @ April 17 2010,19:26)

Ed,

Have you asked for editing rights?

Hi Karina,

Once (Last Post Here), but I'm not even sure if it was even seen by “T”.

I consider myself auspicious for having faced minimal 'religious bigotry' from people on this forum!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed, what do you mean when you said..“I consider myself auspicious for having faced minimal 'religious bigotry' from people on this forum!”..too many big words for me at the moment, im half asleep. Iv never bothered to ask for edit rights.

Hi Karmarie,

auspicious: affording a favorable response.
bigotry: prejudices or intolerance's based on opinions.

Translation…

I consider myself afforded a favorable response for facing minimal religious prejudices from people on this forum.

Biblical referencing…

John 15:18-23 If the world hate you(Ed J), ye know that it hated me(Jesus) before it hated you.
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world,
but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember
the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have
persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying,
they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you
for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

April 18, 2010 at 8:26 am#187589

Elizabeth

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ April 18 2010,04:37)

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 17 2010,22:04)

Quote (terraricca @ April 17 2010,16:17)

Quote (Elizabeth @ April 16 2010,21:44)

terraricca

How many great tribulations are there?

Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

Jacob's trouble meaning Israel's trouble.

The children of thy, Daniel's people, were the Jews.

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Deu 7:6 ¶ For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Georg

georg

there is only one left for the end;human race.

Jer;30;7 applies to Israel 70 AD.
Dan;12;1 applies to Israel 70 AD
Mat 24;14-44 applies to Israel 70AD and secondly in part only to the great tribulation of his return.

Deu;7;6 applies to faithful believers in Christ.
Isa;45;4-8 applies to Christ and is followers.
Isa;65;17-25 applies to the millennium.

Rom 11 ;28 this applies to all Israel who have not accepted Christ but remain attached to the law,they will be part of the second resurrection and so closing the door

Sorry terraricca, I'm not even in the mood to straighten out so much confusion.

Georg

georg

take your time but read all the scriptures i have quoted,and understand it in the truth

Jer;30;7 applies to Israel 70 AD.–does not.
Dan;12;1 applies to Israel 70 AD.–does not.

Mat 24;14-44 applies to Israel 70AD and secondly in part only to the great tribulation of his return.–speaks of three tribulation.

Deu;7;6 applies to faithful believers in Christ.
Isa;45;4-8 applies to Christ and is followers.
Rom. 11:28—these three scriptures I gave to show who the elect are. The explanation you gave makes no sense.
Isa;65;17-25 applies to the millennium.–correct.

Georg

April 18, 2010 at 8:43 am#187592

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ April 18 2010,17:30)

Hi Karmarie,

auspicious: affording a favorable response.
bigotry: prejudices or intolerance's based on opinions.

Translation…

I consider myself afforded a favorable response for facing minimal religious prejudices from people on this forum.

Biblical referencing…

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Dont worry Ed :cool:

April 18, 2010 at 9:02 am#187594

Participant

Quote (selah @ April 18 2010,13:07)

Hi Karmarie,

But you are right, most believe this rider to be opposed to Christ.

Regarding the link you provided. I would not totally agree that white always indicates purity.

That writer may have overlooked the point that the beast personage appears “like a lamb” … ie a counterfeit.

I think most would agree that 99% of lambs are white.
I will post my evidence that this specific rider is opposed to Christ … and I agree with most of what Georg said about the subject.

Hi Selah, Sorry this is such a long post but Im looking at the word Overcome and overcoming which were the original words later translated to the word Conquer and Conquering.. Below are some of the translations, then under that is just some examples of the word Overcome in the New Testemant, sometimes a word can make a lot of difference. Of course you dont have to read all of it but its quite interesting.

New International Version (©1984)
I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
English Standard Version (©2001)
And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.
King James Bible
And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
English Revised Version
And I saw, and behold, a white horse, and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer.
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then I looked, and there was a white horse, and its rider had a bow. He was given a crown and rode off as a warrior to win battles.
New Living Translation (©2007)
I looked up and saw a white horse standing there. Its rider carried a bow, and a crown was placed on his head. He rode out to win many battles and gain the victory.
Bible in Basic English
And I saw a white horse, and he who was seated on it had a bow; and there was given to him a crown: and he went out with power to overcome.
Young's Literal Translation
and I saw, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is having a bow, and there was given to him a crown, and he went forth overcoming, and that he may overcome.

“I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome
all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you..”(Luke 10:19)

“The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it…. “(John 1:5)

“But take heart! I have overcome the world…” (John 16:33)

“And I saw a white horse, and he who was seated on it had a bow; and there was
given to him a crown: and he went out with power to overcome. … “(Rev 6:2)

“I write to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one..”(1st John 2:13)

“I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word
of God lives in you, and you have overcome the evil one…”(1st John 2:14)

“Who is able to overcome the world but the man who
has faith that Jesus is the Son of God?”..(1st John 5:5)

“But in all these things we overcome, because of him that hath loved us…”(Romans 8:27)

“Death is overcome by life…”(1st Corinthians 15:54)

“But praise be to God who gives us strength to overcome through our Lord Jesus Christ…(1st Corinthians 15:57)

“Then you will be able to take a stand during these evil days. Once you have
overcome all obstacles, you will be able to stand your ground…”(Ephesians 6:13)

“But praise be to God who makes us strong to overcome in Christ..”(2nd Corinthians 2:14)

“..death may be overcome by life..”(2nd Corintians 6:4)

“He, that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches: He
that shall overcome, shall not be hurt by the second death..(Rev 2:11)

“And he that shall overcome, and keep my works unto the
end, I will give him power over the nations. … (Rev 2:26)

” He that shall overcome, shall thus be clothed in white garments, and I will not
blot out his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name..(Rev 3:5)

“He that shall overcome, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God; and he
shall go out no more; and I will write upon him the name of my God..”(Rev 3:12)

“To him that shall overcome, I will give to sit with me in my throne: as I also
have overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne…”(Rev 3:21)

“…. and they have overcome him by reason of the blood of the Lamb, and by reason of
the word of their testimony, and have not loved their life even unto death. …”(Rev 12:11)

“.. those who had overcome the beast and his image and the number of his name..(Rev 15:2)

“He that shall overcome shall possess these things, and
I will be his God; and he shall be my son..(Rev 21:7)

April 18, 2010 at 9:15 am#187598

Participant

White is symbolised in the Book of Rev as purity, it cant suddenly change, the book wasnt written like that.
What it means in one place of the book will mean the same in another. IMO.

April 19, 2010 at 3:16 am#187666

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ April 18 2010,21:15)

White is symbolised in the Book of Rev as purity, it cant suddenly change, the book wasnt written like that.
What it means in one place of the book will mean the same in another. IMO.

KAR
you right,the fact that he as a bow could mean that he trows messages of truth,remember the horse and rider comes with the wrath of God ,seals

April 19, 2010 at 10:05 am#187704

Participant

Hi T.
Also, theres no mention of any Arrows but only the Bow.

April 19, 2010 at 2:41 pm#187735

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ April 19 2010,22:05)

Hi T.
Also, theres no mention of any Arrows but only the Bow.

Kar

a bow without arrows is useless,and wen someone ask you to pickup your bow it imply to grab the arrows as well.
just if today they ask to pick your gun so to speak it is implying that you pick up the bullets as well,is not???

now the bow in scriptures is used for two reason,1)to kill,2) to send messages.

April 19, 2010 at 7:34 pm#187794

Participant

Hi T,

Re read my post. This particular “bow” in the Greek text is in regard to “cloth”.

It is definitely NOT a weapon, so what you suggest is not applicable here.

Karmarie,

Regarding Rev 6:2, were you saying that the white horse is the Holy Spirit? … or were you saying it is the rider that is the Holy Spirit?

Either way, what would “cloth” have to do with the Holy Spirit?
And the crown? Scripture speaks about crowns, but never associated with the Holy Spirit that I am aware of.

“IF” the white horse represents the purity of Christianity and the pure gospel, could not the rider be the religion of Roman Catholicism and its perverted gospel that rides upon the true gospel before heresies crept into the church?

Ie. this rider is spreading a counterfeit gospel, and there is no doubt that Romanism went forth conquering. Is not Roman Catholicism the largest “Christian” church in the world?

Have you heard the phrase “riding upon another”?
Later in Revelation, it speaks about the “woman”, which definitely represents the false church … riding on another does it not?

Some things to think upon.

Regarding “white”, Jesus Himself said unto the religious Jews of His day because of their corrupted teachings:

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You are like WHITE washed graves that look beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Matt 23:27

Through their “traditions”, several of Romes “beautiful” churches place the bones of their “saints” beneath the altar.

April 20, 2010 at 2:27 am#187849

Participant

Hi Selah, good to see your still around:)

You asked..

Quote

Regarding Rev 6:2, were you saying that the white horse is the Holy Spirit? … or were you saying it is the rider that is the Holy Spirit?

I think it could be.

Quote

And the crown? Scripture speaks about crowns, but never associated with the Holy Spirit that I am aware of.

Victors crown..the symbol of triumph..

Rev 2:10.. “Be faithful, even to the point of death and I will give you the crown of life.“

Quote

Ie. this rider is spreading a counterfeit gospel, and there is no doubt that Romanism went forth conquering. Is not Roman Catholicism the largest “Christian” church in the world?

Have you heard the phrase “riding upon another”?
Later in Revelation, it speaks about the “woman”, which definitely represents the false church … riding on another does it not?

Selah, I think the Horse and Rider are one. Theres this Horse (Holy Spirit?), then are the Horses which bring things like death, famine, war….then there is the second White Horse (Jesus)…Alpha and Omega..?

Quote

Regarding “white”, Jesus Himself said unto the religious Jews of His day because of their corrupted teachings:

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You are like WHITE washed graves that look beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Matt 23:27

Through their “traditions”, several of Romes “beautiful” churches place the bones of their “saints” beneath the altar.

I still connect white in the book of Revelation as purity with no deception to its intended meaning.

April 20, 2010 at 3:22 am#187858

Participant

Quote (selah @ April 20 2010,07:34)

Hi T,

Re read my post. This particular “bow” in the Greek text is in regard to “cloth”.

It is definitely NOT a weapon, so what you suggest is not applicable here.

Karmarie,

Regarding Rev 6:2, were you saying that the white horse is the Holy Spirit? … or were you saying it is the rider that is the Holy Spirit?

Either way, what would “cloth” have to do with the Holy Spirit?
And the crown? Scripture speaks about crowns, but never associated with the Holy Spirit that I am aware of.

Ie. this rider is spreading a counterfeit gospel, and there is no doubt that Romanism went forth conquering. Is not Roman Catholicism the largest “Christian” church in the world?

Have you heard the phrase “riding upon another”?
Later in Revelation, it speaks about the “woman”, which definitely represents the false church … riding on another does it not?

Some things to think upon.

Regarding “white”, Jesus Himself said unto the religious Jews of His day because of their corrupted teachings:

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You are like WHITE washed graves that look beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Matt 23:27

Through their “traditions”, several of Romes “beautiful” churches place the bones of their “saints” beneath the altar.

hi Sel

yea i have to look into that bow of cloth or cloth.

but the crown means he as power ,to do that,……
the horse and his rider are part of distributing the wrath of God and he is the first …….time wise .

there is much more than this ,but i have to put it together,
things could be what they seems to be but there time may not be,
and at some what it seems is not but there time is good

i let you know later what i mean ,wen i put it together.patient.

April 21, 2010 at 5:23 am#188075

Participant

The initial post for this thread (A Coincidence Or A Creation) was about God's Language to Number The beast.

440 plus posts later (other than Georg's one example of Latin gematria and Ed J's comment that the Quran is 666) not one comment by others as to the language to number the beast has been posted.

Nor has anyone responded as to whether they believe that the numeric examples I presented is a coincidence or a creation?

What should I conclude from this? No interest or no knowledge?

THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE “PAIR”

It is said that the number of man is … 6
We are told that the number of the beast is … 666
Some Christians believe that the European EU has a connection to a “Revived Roman Empire”, and that the beast of Revelation is in some way associated with this gigantic conglomerate. Some believe it will lead us to a one world government.

Within this European parliament, seat number 666 is vacant … a man sits in seat 665 and 667, but no man in 666.
In curiosity, I scrolled down the list and stopped at seat 66. This seat is held by the Vatican, and represents the pope.

The word “curse” is used 66 times in the OT. Using simple English gematria A=1 … Z=26 curse sums at:
CURSE = 66
SODOM = 66

The word “Charles” means “man” … Charlemagne. We are told that the beast-man will appear “like a lamb.

CHARLES = 66 John Paul II's Polish name is the English equivalent of … Charles.
LIKE A LAMB = 66

According to a Messianic Jewish website (Worldwide Witness), John Paul II sums at 666 using Hebrew gematria.
YWhNn PWLWs SNY = 666

Another site states that John Paul II sums at 666 in Latin.
IOANES PAVLVS SECVNDO = 666

Is it a coincidence that “ROMAN” numbers sum at … IVXLCD = 666

VATIC = 55
JUDAS = 55
SATAN = 55
WICKED = 55

I believe God has given us a specific sign in His Word, and that it is “two, twin, twice or double”.
Babylon is fallen, is fallen. Rev 14:8
Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen. Rev 18:2

Alas, alas that great city Babylon … Rev 18:10
Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet … Rev 18:16

ALAS ALAS = 66

Reward her even as she rewarded you, and DOUBLE unto her DOUBLE, according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her DOUBLE. Rev 18:6

What has this two or twice got to do with Rome? Rome is the world center for the study of “twins”.
This is because of the myth of the “twins” Romulus and Remus, suckled by a she-wolf. Rome was named after Romulus.
The Church of Rome is a WOLF in sheep's clothing … yet she appears “like a lamb”.
The Vatican is one of the smallest sovereign nations in the world, yet her “religious” POWER and wealth is immense.

TWIN = 66
MYTH = 66
POWER = 77 If you believe what has been presented so far, to be a “coincidence” I suggest you read no further.

The first pope in the history of the Church Of Peter to take a “double” name was John Paul … he reigned 33 days and mysteriously died, some say murdered. But wonders of wonders, John Paul came back to “life” in the form of John Paul II

JOHN PAUL II = 99

The narrow path leads to Jesus, but all wide roads lead to Rome.
And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee … Rev 18:23

That great religious empire of the beast is the “woman” the great harlot church.

WOMAN = 66
EMPIRE = 66

Is there something “bad” about a double or twin number? No, God merely has used it as a sign or “marker” for us to decipher.

MARKER = 66

The word Roman “Catholic” means “universal”. I believe it signifies the Church of Rome as being the one (uni) church of the world.

UNI = 44 VERSAL = 77
ANTI = 44 CHRIST = 77

Thomas was “a dioscuri” … a twin. A DIOSCURI= 99

Some Hebrew sources believe Cain was a twin. They note that the intent of the Hebrew word is “she continued to bear”, no mention of Adam “knowing” Eve again. I believe this is the “mark” God placed upon Cain … an identical twin and “appeared” like Abel.

APPEARED = 66
IDENTICAL = 77
TWIN = 66

CAIN AND ABLE = 66
MARK ON CAIN = 99
FUGITIVE = 99 Cain became a fugitive.

Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers nor “the desire of women” or regard any god; for he shall magnify himself above all, but in his estate (Vatican State) shall he honour ALA MAHOZIM … god of forces.

ALA MAHOZIM = 99
THE FORCES = 99

Each pope is considered to be the “IMAGE” and successor of Peter. He sits in the chair of Peter reigning over the Church of Peter. He is their “second Peter”, their “papal Peter”. As I noted previously, the word “vatic or Vatican” means “prophet”.

II PETER = 66
A FALSE VATIC = 99
THE SECOND PETER = 99 In our Bible, II Peter is about false prophets. God will send them strong delusion to believe a lie … pseudos.

PSEUDOS = 99
DELUSION = 99

Other than Satan himself, who was the only person that Jesus ever called “Satan”? Check out John 21
“Petrus” is the Greek name for Peter. Jesus knew that (eventually) “Peter” would represent the false Church of Rome. This I believe is the meaning behind verse 18 of John 21. This is also the chapter where Jesus questions Peter three times … do you love me?

Verily, verily (another double) I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst theyself and walkest whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he (Jesus) signifying by what death he (Peter) should glorify God. When God destroys the Church of Rome, God will be glorified! Even some Roman Catholic theologians believe this has reference to their church when it shall be “old”. This is why some Roman Catholic theologians believe their church will become apostate in the last days.

Rev 13:18 speaks about the “counting” of the number of the beast. Note that in this strange chapter of John 21 regarding the counting of the 153 fish, it was Peter that did the “counting” even though Jesus did not specify anyone to do this. The Book of John has been called the book of signs … this is definitely one of those signs. Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter. Why?

There is a connection between the word “peter” (small rock or pebble) and “to count or calculate”. Rev 13:18 here is wisdom … 666.
Small pebbles were used to “count”. This is the connection between “Peter” and the counting of the beast, and the “counting” of the 153 fish by Peter. Petrus = Peter. Peter was “naked”. John 21:7

PETRUS = 99
NAKED PETER = 99
SMALL PEBBLE = 99

Even though I said earlier that “double numbers” are not necessarily bad, but more as a sign from God for us to decipher, I must admit that most of what I have presented does appear to be “bad”, so here are some other “twin” examples:

Genesis 25:24 records the birth of the twins Jacob-Esau for Isaac son of Abraham.

JACOB ESAU = 77
ABRAHAM = 44
ISAAC = 33

Genesis 38:27 records the twins through … Judah

JUDAH = 44

Aram means twin or two in Hebrew

Aram = 33

Words with a “twin” meaning:

SET = 44
TWA = 44 (old English)
PAIR = 44
DUBLE = 44 (old English)

TWIN = 66
OCTAVE = 66

PARLEY = 77
EMULATE = 77
PARALLEL = 77
IDENTICAL = 77

The special letter (used only once in the Bible) to signify 666 is called … “vau”.

VAU = 44

If you have read my previous posts regarding “simple English gematria”, you will recall the following examples:
SIMPLE = 74
ENGLISH = 74
GEMATRIA = 74

JESUS = 74
JEWISH = 74
MESSIAH = 74

CROSS = 74
Y'SHUA = 74
GOSPEL = 74
THE KEY = 74

MENE MENE = 74 Daniel's writing on the wall … mene mene means “number number” … another “double”

What is the purpose of this evidence? To demonstrate that the UNSTATED language in Rev 13:18 about the numbering of the beast, is to be English in its most simple numeric form … for it is our world common language of these last days of prophetic fulfillment.

ccc

Thank you for your time brothers and sisters.
I planted a few seeds and presented some evidence.
My job here is now complete. May you all continue to seek His Truth.

April 21, 2010 at 10:51 am#188122

Elizabeth

Participant

selah

I can appreciate the time and work you have put into all of this, and frankly, it is quite interesting. For most of us I believe, including myself, it is even stranger to understand the number system then the Bible by it self.
Somehow I don't think God meant the Bible to be read or understood this way.
I consider some of your “evidence” coincidental, and some of it inaccurate.
But thank you for making it easy to read.

Georg

April 21, 2010 at 2:01 pm#188129

JustAskin

Participant

Selah,
You and EDJ should get together in a debate – a Positive debate.

Thrash out a meaningful meaning behind your numbers theory and put it into some kind of package.

Please explain, I have asked this of EDJ, too, what of the words that DON'T FIT. YOu present all the fitting words but what of the others that don't.

Do you Pick only words that fit and ignore the ones that don't fit.

I believe there is a link but I would like to see some more evidence or better construction. At present it is like someone discovering a new chemical element and just telling everyone about it. What you gonna USE IT to do.

I mean, we, nearly all, believe most of the thing that the numbers show – without the numbers – tell us something new, revelationary, NEW?

My Regards,
JustAskin

April 21, 2010 at 10:54 pm#188239