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Nah I just found it interesting, like I said iv never dreamt of a number before. I was showing Selah and Ed really.
Seeing theyre the number guys:)Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 21 2010,03:23) Hi K, It's all good today. Your dream is in line with what I believe. The lion(Jesus), from the tribe of Judah(Yup)=Redemption. I also believe what you said before about Babylon being what the whole world has become. Hope all is well with you. Love and peace-Me
Yeah im all good thanks Mike, just rushing through here while iv got a few spare minutes, and am glad to hear your day is good:)Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 21 2010,09:19) Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 20 2010,22:48) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,08:50) I dreamed of a number last night 119 when I woke and got up It was stuck in my head, I just went on the gemetria calculator and in English = Tribe of Judah and Jewish Gemetria = Lion. And redemption. That was intersting, iv never dreamed of a number before.
As Jesus told the Samaritan woman “after all, salvation is from the jews” Godbless.
MATHIS HE REFERS TO HIMSELF AS BEING THE ONE GOD HAS CHOSEN TO SAVE MEN TROUGH FAITH IN HIM AND HIS FATHER,
THE JEWS AFTER JESUS DEAD WAS THE SAME THAN THE GENTILES,NO DIFFERENCE
T, I agree with you. He was referring to himself. I was confirming the implied numbers and symbols K gave. Godbless P.S.Out of curiousity, are you yelling at me or are the caps locked on your computer?Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 21 2010,12:44) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 21 2010,09:19) Quote (mikeangel @ Mar. 20 2010,22:48) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 20 2010,08:50) I dreamed of a number last night 119 when I woke and got up It was stuck in my head, I just went on the gemetria calculator and in English = Tribe of Judah and Jewish Gemetria = Lion. And redemption. That was intersting, iv never dreamed of a number before.
As Jesus told the Samaritan woman “after all, salvation is from the jews” Godbless.
MATHIS HE REFERS TO HIMSELF AS BEING THE ONE GOD HAS CHOSEN TO SAVE MEN TROUGH FAITH IN HIM AND HIS FATHER,
THE JEWS AFTER JESUS DEAD WAS THE SAME THAN THE GENTILES,NO DIFFERENCE
T, I agree with you. He was referring to himself. I was confirming the implied numbers and symbols K gave. Godbless P.S.Out of curiousity, are you yelling at me or are the caps locked on your computer?
ah,ah ha;of cause not ,my capitals are on ,just to make a difference in what i say and the scriptures quote,
i try never to be angry.Hi Karmarie,
I believe the following passages have direct reference to the Church of Rome.
“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.” Matt 23:9Now the spirit speaketh expressly, that in the later times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils: speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron … forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats …….”
The Book of Revelation describes a false harlot church that performs sign, wonders, miracles “in the sight of men.”
Also, it states that the woman is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth, and that it merchandised in the souls of men. A great city that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
The Church of Rome calls its priests and popes “Father” and “Holy Father”.
Thousands upon thousands of “miracles” are claimed by the Church of Rome.
The Church of Rome forbade its followers to eat meat on Fridays, and forbids its priests to marry.
Many kings and world leaders throughout the ages have been Roman Catholic, and therefore are subservient to the reigning pope.
Perhaps I misunderstood you earlier, but did you indicate that you do not believe these apply to the Church of Rome?
If so, is there another church or religion that you feel they would equally apply to?
Or, might it be your thinking that these descriptive identifications are yet future?
Hi Selah.
Quote Thousands upon thousands of “miracles” are claimed by the Church of Rome. But not making fire come down from the sky?
Quote … forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats …….”The Church of Rome calls its priests and popes “Father” and “Holy Father”…. Forbidding to Marry , refraining from eating meat could be refering to Heresies which were to come into the Church, not nessesary the Beast or Babylon.
There are also others example Adventists who dont eat meat.Quote Perhaps I misunderstood you earlier, but did you indicate that you do not believe these apply to the Church of Rome?
If so, is there another church or religion that you feel they would equally apply to?
Or, might it be your thinking that these descriptive identifications are yet futureI dont believe myself that it does apply to the Church of Rome. I believe the Church has fallen into serious error. But not that it has much to do with the book of Revelations.
I have my opinions on who/what it could be. I dont believe it is future but thats it is right now.
I believe the mark of the beast is not literal but on the heart and in the mind, and for many in the actions of each individual.Hi Selah,
Regarding the Churches and one reason I dont think this Beast deciever could be them;
“Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to shepherd the church of God
which He purchased with His own blood.“(Acts 20;28In Revelations, the Lampstands and stars which are In his right hand are identified as His Churches;
“…The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this:
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches…”-(Rev 1;20)He then goes on to address each church saying
“…These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands:…..” -(Rev 2)
If the Churches were Babylon which further back in Rev is said to fall and His people warned to get out of Her, Why is this not mentioned in His letters to His Churches?
They werent called Babylon?Regardless there are warnings in the book of Revelations to the Churches to beware of error.
This is just how I see it. I dont know if its right or wrong. I realise that MANY say as you do, and that it was a well known thing going back. Maybe im not seeing it when I should?Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 22 2010,20:01) Hi Selah, Regarding the Churches and one reason I dont think this Beast deciever could be them;
“Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers,
to shepherd the church of God
which He purchased with His own blood.“(Acts 20;28In Revelations, the Lampstands and stars which are In his right hand are identified as His Churches;
“…The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this:
The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches…”-(Rev 1;20)He then goes on to address each church saying
“…These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands:…..” -(Rev 2)
If the Churches were Babylon which further back in Rev is said to fall and His people warned to get out of Her, Why is this not mentioned in His letters to His Churches?
They werent called Babylon?Regardless there are warnings in the book of Revelations to the Churches to beware of error.
This is just how I see it. I dont know if its right or wrong. I realise that MANY say as you do, and that it was a well known thing going back. Maybe im not seeing it when I should?
Karlook what it says;Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near
Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this
Rev 6:17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”
Rev 7:1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth
Rev 9:20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
Rev 9:21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their theftsRev 10:11 Then I was told, “You must prophesy again about many peoples, nations, languages and kings
Rev 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 14:13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”Rev 17:1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.
Rev 17:2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”Rev 19:9 Then the angel said to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ ” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
Rev 21:27 Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Rev 22:9 But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”
Rev 22:10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near.
Rev 22:11 Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holyQuote (karmarie @ Mar. 23 2010,10:21) Hi t, So who do you think is the Beast of Rev, with the mark etc? Im not too sure.
Kari don't know ,but i know what they are not,
those things are only guide line ,it will be understood when needed by the righteous ones.
some is already past some as yet to be fulfilled,and some is 1000 years away,some even more.
Hi Karmarie,
I had stated that thousands upon thousands of 'miracles” have been claimed by the Church of Rome.
This is what distinguishes them as being the “true church”.You said … “But not making fire come down from the sky?”
I am sure that you are not a 100% literalist, as you do not believe the mark of the beast to be literal.
Do you think this “fire” has to be literal? Note that this fire is “in the sight of men”.
Keep in mind that the word vatic or Vatican means “prophet”.And it (false prophet) doeth great wonders, so it maketh fire come down from “heaven on the earth”.
It does not say from heaven above, but rather Rome's “heaven on earth”, for she holds the keys.And it deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of these signs which it had power to do …. Rev 13:13-14.
The interpretation: Symbolically, this is exactly what the Vatican does, for by the “sign” of the papal headdress (mitre) the Vatican places the power and presence of the “Holy Spirit” upon the Pope and his Cardinals and Bishops. According to their official doctrine, the deeply cleft mitre with its unusual shape (like two tongues placed together forming two points) symbolizes the presence of the Holy Spirit upon them, as did the “cloven tongues of fire” that appeared upon the head of the Apostles. This is from the Papal Glossary when John Paul II visited my city in 1984.
A publication of the Free Presbyterian Church of Canada had this to say about the extravagent claims of the Vatican.
“Pope John Paul 11 by virtue of his accepting the tiara of the papacy makes these claims for himself. The formal declaration which the officiating cardinal makes when crowning the new pope states: 'Receive the tiara adorned with three crowns, and know that thou art the Father of Princes and Kings, Ruler of the world, the Vicar of our Saviour Jesus Christ.'
The word “Vicar” comes from the Latin word 'vicarious' which means, 'one acting in the place of another.' That means then that Pope John Paull 11 is claiming to take the place of Jesus Christ on earth.
When Christians see or hear the word “antichrist”, what normally comes to their mind is someone “opposed to” or “against” Christ.
But as some commentators have noted (Aldrich, Thayer, Trench) the prefix “anti” may also be used in the sense “instead of” or “in place of”.Who has not heard the tales of “winking Madonnas, “weeping” images and miracles and cures wrought through the power of “sacred relics” and the bones of saints (even raising of the dead has been claimed) Augustines City of God.
THE FALSE PROPHET = VATICAN “AUTHENTICATES” ITS OWN MIRACLES
The Vatican has authenticated that Mary's house was transported by angels from Nazareth to the town of Tersato in Illyria in 1291 and then three years later, again carried by angels to Loreto. This “Holy House” of Loreto has been numbered among the most famous shrines of Italy. “It is here that most holy Mary, Mother of God, was born; here, that she was saluted by the angel; here that the eternal Word was made Flesh. Angels conveyed this house from Palestine to the town Tersato in Illyria in the year of salvation 1291 in the pontificate of Nicholas IV …. That the traditions thus boldly proclaimed to the wold have been fully sanctioned by the Holy See cannot for a moment remain in doubt. More than forty seven popes have in various ways rendered honour to the shrine, and an immense number of Bulls and Briefs proclaim without qualification the identity of the Santa Casa di Loreto with the Holy House of Nazareth”.3 The Catholic Encyclopedia Vol 13 pg 26.
Once it is realized that the false prophet is not a lone individual but rather a powerful sovereign religious state exercising worldwide control over kings of the earth, then Revelation's descriptive verses become quite logical and intellectually understandable.
For reading relative to the Vatican's visible and secret involvement in the affairs of this world, I recommend:
The Vatican Moscow Washington Alliance and The Vatican In World Politics … by Avro Manhattan.Do you (or ANYONE HERE ) believe these “miracles”? They are either true or a lie.
If a lie, then this world wide church is a false and apostate harlot church. Do you honestly believe their claims?If possible, even the very elect would be deceived.
Quote (selah @ Mar. 23 2010,14:18) Hi Karmarie, I had stated that thousands upon thousands of 'miracles” have been claimed by the Church of Rome.
This is what distinguishes them as being the “true church”.You said … “But not making fire come down from the sky?”
I am sure that you are not a 100% literalist, as you do not believe the mark of the beast to be literal.
Do you think this “fire” has to be literal? Note that this fire is “in the sight of men”.
Keep in mind that the word vatic or Vatican means “prophet”.And it (false prophet) doeth great wonders, so it maketh fire come down from “heaven on the earth”.
It does not say from heaven above, but rather Rome's “heaven on earth”, for she holds the keys.And it deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of these signs which it had power to do …. Rev 13:13-14.
The interpretation: Symbolically, this is exactly what the Vatican does, for by the “sign” of the papal headdress (mitre) the Vatican places the power and presence of the “Holy Spirit” upon the Pope and his Cardinals and Bishops. According to their official doctrine, the deeply cleft mitre with its unusual shape (like two tongues placed together forming two points) symbolizes the presence of the Holy Spirit upon them, as did the “cloven tongues of fire” that appeared upon the head of the Apostles. This is from the Papal Glossary when John Paul II visited my city in 1984.
A publication of the Free Presbyterian Church of Canada had this to say about the extravagent claims of the Vatican.
“Pope John Paul 11 by virtue of his accepting the tiara of the papacy makes these claims for himself. The formal declaration which the officiating cardinal makes when crowning the new pope states: 'Receive the tiara adorned with three crowns, and know that thou art the Father of Princes and Kings, Ruler of the world, the Vicar of our Saviour Jesus Christ.'
The word “Vicar” comes from the Latin word 'vicarious' which means, 'one acting in the place of another.' That means then that Pope John Paull 11 is claiming to take the place of Jesus Christ on earth.
When Christians see or hear the word “antichrist”, what normally comes to their mind is someone “opposed to” or “against” Christ.
But as some commentators have noted (Aldrich, Thayer, Trench) the prefix “anti” may also be used in the sense “instead of” or “in place of”.Who has not heard the tales of “winking Madonnas, “weeping” images and miracles and cures wrought through the power of “sacred relics” and the bones of saints (even raising of the dead has been claimed) Augustines City of God.
THE FALSE PROPHET = VATICAN “AUTHENTICATES” ITS OWN MIRACLES
The Vatican has authenticated that Mary's house was transported by angels from Nazareth to the town of Tersato in Illyria in 1291 and then three years later, again carried by angels to Loreto. This “Holy House” of Loreto has been numbered among the most famous shrines of Italy. “It is here that most holy Mary, Mother of God, was born; here, that she was saluted by the angel; here that the eternal Word was made Flesh. Angels conveyed this house from Palestine to the town Tersato in Illyria in the year of salvation 1291 in the pontificate of Nicholas IV …. That the traditions thus boldly proclaimed to the wold have been fully sanctioned by the Holy See cannot for a moment remain in doubt. More than forty seven popes have in various ways rendered honour to the shrine, and an immense number of Bulls and Briefs proclaim without qualification the identity of the Santa Casa di Loreto with the Holy House of Nazareth”.3 The Catholic Encyclopedia Vol 13 pg 26.
Once it is realized that the false prophet is not a lone individual but rather a powerful sovereign religious state exercising worldwide control over kings of the earth, then Revelation's descriptive verses become quite logical and intellectually understandable.
For reading relative to the Vatican's visible and secret involvement in the affairs of this world, I recommend:
The Vatican Moscow Washington Alliance and The Vatican In World Politics … by Avro Manhattan.Do you (or ANYONE HERE ) believe these “miracles”? They are either true or a lie.
If a lie, then this world wide church is a false and apostate harlot church. Do you honestly believe their claims?If possible, even the very elect would be deceived.
SELAHdid you ever look at the histry of the roman catholic church ?
and i mean from 323ad to 2010,ad and compere it with the teachings of the bible,that is the real answer
Terraricca,
Did you (Selah) ever look at the history of the Roman Catholic church? And I mean from 323AD to 2010 Ad and compare it with the teachings of the bible .,..
I thought that was what I have been doing, but please enlighten me. I am always receptive to the truth about Romanism.
You may have knowledge that I am not aware of.
Quote (selah @ Mar. 23 2010,14:18) Hi Karmarie, I had stated that thousands upon thousands of 'miracles” have been claimed by the Church of Rome.
This is what distinguishes them as being the “true church”.You said … “But not making fire come down from the sky?”
I am sure that you are not a 100% literalist, as you do not believe the mark of the beast to be literal.
Do you think this “fire” has to be literal? Note that this fire is “in the sight of men”.
Keep in mind that the word vatic or Vatican means “prophet”.And it (false prophet) doeth great wonders, so it maketh fire come down from “heaven on the earth”.
It does not say from heaven above, but rather Rome's “heaven on earth”, for she holds the keys.And it deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of these signs which it had power to do …. Rev 13:13-14.
The interpretation: Symbolically, this is exactly what the Vatican does, for by the “sign” of the papal headdress (mitre) the Vatican places the power and presence of the “Holy Spirit” upon the Pope and his Cardinals and Bishops. According to their official doctrine, the deeply cleft mitre with its unusual shape (like two tongues placed together forming two points) symbolizes the presence of the Holy Spirit upon them, as did the “cloven tongues of fire” that appeared upon the head of the Apostles. This is from the Papal Glossary when John Paul II visited my city in 1984.
A publication of the Free Presbyterian Church of Canada had this to say about the extravagent claims of the Vatican.
“Pope John Paul 11 by virtue of his accepting the tiara of the papacy makes these claims for himself. The formal declaration which the officiating cardinal makes when crowning the new pope states: 'Receive the tiara adorned with three crowns, and know that thou art the Father of Princes and Kings, Ruler of the world, the Vicar of our Saviour Jesus Christ.'
The word “Vicar” comes from the Latin word 'vicarious' which means, 'one acting in the place of another.' That means then that Pope John Paull 11 is claiming to take the place of Jesus Christ on earth.
When Christians see or hear the word “antichrist”, what normally comes to their mind is someone “opposed to” or “against” Christ.
But as some commentators have noted (Aldrich, Thayer, Trench) the prefix “anti” may also be used in the sense “instead of” or “in place of”.Who has not heard the tales of “winking Madonnas, “weeping” images and miracles and cures wrought through the power of “sacred relics” and the bones of saints (even raising of the dead has been claimed) Augustines City of God.
THE FALSE PROPHET = VATICAN “AUTHENTICATES” ITS OWN MIRACLES
The Vatican has authenticated that Mary's house was transported by angels from Nazareth to the town of Tersato in Illyria in 1291 and then three years later, again carried by angels to Loreto. This “Holy House” of Loreto has been numbered among the most famous shrines of Italy. “It is here that most holy Mary, Mother of God, was born; here, that she was saluted by the angel; here that the eternal Word was made Flesh. Angels conveyed this house from Palestine to the town Tersato in Illyria in the year of salvation 1291 in the pontificate of Nicholas IV …. That the traditions thus boldly proclaimed to the wold have been fully sanctioned by the Holy See cannot for a moment remain in doubt. More than forty seven popes have in various ways rendered honour to the shrine, and an immense number of Bulls and Briefs proclaim without qualification the identity of the Santa Casa di Loreto with the Holy House of Nazareth”.3 The Catholic Encyclopedia Vol 13 pg 26.
Once it is realized that the false prophet is not a lone individual but rather a powerful sovereign religious state exercising worldwide control over kings of the earth, then Revelation's descriptive verses become quite logical and intellectually understandable.
For reading relative to the Vatican's visible and secret involvement in the affairs of this world, I recommend:
The Vatican Moscow Washington Alliance and The Vatican In World Politics … by Avro Manhattan.Do you (or ANYONE HERE ) believe these “miracles”? They are either true or a lie.
If a lie, then this world wide church is a false and apostate harlot church. Do you honestly believe their claims?If possible, even the very elect would be deceived.
selahFirst; the fires the false prophet made come down from heaven, were not real fires; read how Peter describes them.
Second; on the “earth” meaning, on all the people that dared to oppose him.
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Third; heaven above is the place of all authority, heavens on earth, (churches) are places of religious authority.
Fourth; in the sight of men; public torture and executions, to frighten the rest into obedience.
By these means (miracles) he deceived the whole world.
Georg
I always thought 'making fire come down from heaven' had more to do with War.
Possibility dont you think?Who has power like the beast? Who can fight the beast?
Selah Hi thanks for your information.
As an Adventist (for a while) we had heard all of that.So, do you think the Papacy and Catholics are to once again go through the earth killing all who oppose them?
Somehow I just cant see that happening. Do they really have that much power?Hi Karmarie,
Regarding the papal “hat” symbolizing the “tongues of fire', is that an interpretation that is biblically reasonable regarding how the false prophet (Vatican) can bring down fire “in the sight of men”? Or, do you think that understanding is completely unbiblical?
Regarding their “miracles” … do you believe them?
If not, how can you continue to hold to your claim that they are not a false church?As I had noted, their miracles are either true or a lie.
I think this is something that HAS to be established before having meaningful discussions about the Church of Rome and the Book of Revelation.
Do I think there will be another killing Inquisition?
I do not, and I dont think Revelation indicates this … does it?When God literally destroys that great city Vatican City, perhaps then, and only then, will you and all the world realize what Revelation has been revealing.
Until that occurs, it is likely that you will remain in doubt.
Short of that event can you think of “anything” that would convince you that the RCC is the false church described in the later chapters of Revelation?
Hi Selah, I dont know anything really about their “miracles” I only ever see the Pope on tv, and he seems harmless enough? I know theres things like Fatima, and Mary statues coming alive, cying etc. I know what would be behind those things and why (Statue worship). I actually read some of the Fatima revelations, alot was pretty convincing. But I realize Satan can work like that (a good lie is 99% truth).
The Catholic Church I think broke off from the Eastern Orthodox. What do you think of the Eastern Orthodox?
Where abouts in the book of Revelations do you think were up to? (What is to come?)
Wow, that was apparently the first post iv ever made! (must of been an old account id never used) (2007)
Quote (selah @ Mar. 24 2010,09:57) Hi Karmarie, Regarding the papal “hat” symbolizing the “tongues of fire', is that an interpretation that is biblically reasonable regarding how the false prophet (Vatican) can bring down fire “in the sight of men”? Or, do you think that understanding is completely unbiblical?
Regarding their “miracles” … do you believe them?
If not, how can you continue to hold to your claim that they are not a false church?As I had noted, their miracles are either true or a lie.
I think this is something that HAS to be established before having meaningful discussions about the Church of Rome and the Book of Revelation.
Do I think there will be another killing Inquisition?
I do not, and I dont think Revelation indicates this … does it?When God literally destroys that great city Vatican City, perhaps then, and only then, will you and all the world realize what Revelation has been revealing.
Until that occurs, it is likely that you will remain in doubt.
Short of that event can you think of “anything” that would convince you that the RCC is the false church described in the later chapters of Revelation?
SEL
is the hat not the head of a fish ?
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