A Closer look

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2012,14:44)

Hi Pierre, For you to ask those questions means you did not understand my post. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed
Do you know the answers

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2012,04:44)

devo  and edj Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (1)why would this beast come out a pit rather than the sea or eath ? (2)why was this particular beast was scarlet in color (3)and more ;why his this beast is part of the final judgment the scarlet beast and the harlot are representation of different things,(4)so his the great city could it be the city were our lord died this has to be answered first to understand ,to me any way

Hi Pierre,

1) Because islam is from the pit of hell.

2) You mean the beast in Rev.17:3 right? that is to show the three beasts are interconnected…
    Rev 17:8 “the beast that was(Rev.13:1-3), and is not(Rev.12:3), and yet is(Rev.17:3).”

3) Because the world is going to become the LORD's. (see Rev.11:10-11)

4) No, the city (Mystery Babylon the great) symbolizes religion.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2012,16:46)

Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2012,04:44) devo  and edj Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (1)why would this beast come out a pit rather than the sea or eath ? (2)why was this particular beast was scarlet in color (3)and more ;why his this beast is part of the final judgment the scarlet beast and the harlot are representation of different things,(4)so his the great city could it be the city were our lord died this has to be answered first to understand ,to me any way Hi Pierre, 1) Because islam is from the pit of hell. 2) You mean the beast in Rev.17:3 right? that is to show the three beasts are interconnected…     Rev 17:8 “the beast that was(Rev.13:1-3), and is not(Rev.12:3), and yet is(Rev.17:3).” 3) Because the world is going to become the LORD's. (see Rev.11:10-11) 4) No, the city (Mystery Babylon the great) symbolizes religion. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

1) You must dream these things up ;answer wrong

2) how many scarlet beast is there in revelation???I only know one

3)wrong answer

4)wrong answer

[Devolution]

Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2012,04:44)

devo  and edj Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. why would this beast come out a pit rather than the sea or eath ? why was this particular beast was scarlet in color and more ;why his this beast is part of the final judgment the scarlet beast and the harlot are representation of different things,so his the great city could it be the city were our lord died this has to be answered first to understand ,to me any way

Hi Pierre,

Here is what i see…

Scarlet = Red and/also reddish orange.

Revelation 12:3
   And there appeared another wonder in heaven, and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 17:3
   So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness, and i saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Rev 17:8
   The beast that thou saw was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Is this the same beast as revelation 13?

Rev 17:8 > and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder……when they behold the beast……

Rev 13:3 > and all the world wondered after the beast

Rev 17:8 > whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world

Rev 13:8 > And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So in my understanding, there is only one meaning for the 7 headed beast.

So to me, the red/crimson stands for a sinful bloody beast, sinful from the very beginning.

This beasts body will be destroyed
The empires/heads are part of the body…not the body itself which supports the heads.
the last healed head is part of the “final judgment” (pre millennial) because it is this very head that is operating during that end period.
The 7th head is not technically the last, but becomes/transforms into the eighth head…
so after it is healed, it is going to change once more…change from a “localized” empire into a global empire.

Change into the eighth when the false prophet takes over…
This 8th is technically the last head & comes from the pit itself because it is the “rebirth” of a dead empire from long long ago….what Satan has wanted all along and to which God has been restraining from happening until then…
And once God stops restraining satans goal, it will come to pass through the False prophets actions.

Babel is the beast that was and is not and is to come…all people under one king dwelling in one empire.
And once she comes, she becomes the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Cheers.

[Ed J]

The Ottoman empire is the head that suffered a deadly wound; the wound was healed by Muhammadin islam.
Muhammadin islam is the eithth and of the seventh: and this whole world system is going to go into perdition.

[terraricca]

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,21:44)

Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2012,04:44) devo  and edj Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. why would this beast come out a pit rather than the sea or eath ? why was this particular beast was scarlet in color and more ;why his this beast is part of the final judgment the scarlet beast and the harlot are representation of different things,so his the great city could it be the city were our lord died this has to be answered first to understand ,to me any way Hi Pierre, Here is what i see… Scarlet = Red and/also reddish orange. Revelation 12:3    And there appeared another wonder in heaven, and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Revelation 17:3    So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness, and i saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:8    The beast that thou saw was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Is this the same beast as revelation 13? Rev 17:8 > and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder……when they behold the beast…… Rev 13:3 > and all the world wondered after the beast Rev 17:8 > whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8 > And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. So in my understanding, there is only one meaning for the 7 headed beast. So to me, the red/crimson stands for a sinful bloody beast, sinful from the very beginning. This beasts body will be destroyed The empires/heads are part of the body…not the body itself which supports the heads. the last healed head is part of the “final judgment” (pre millennial) because it is this very head that is operating during that end period. The 7th head is not technically the last, but becomes/transforms into the eighth head… so after it is healed, it is going to change once more…change from a “localized” empire into a global empire. Change into the eighth when the false prophet takes over… This 8th is technically the last head & comes from the pit itself because it is the “rebirth” of a dead empire from long long ago….what Satan has wanted all along and to which God has been restraining from happening until then… And once God stops restraining satans goal, it will come to pass through the False prophets actions. Babel is the beast that was and is not and is to come…all people under one king dwelling in one empire. And once she comes, she becomes the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Cheers.

Devo

the reason why I have ask those questions is to make you see that there is a difference between the scarlet beast and the other beast in Revelation 13 ,coming out of the sea,even that both have seven heads and ten horns seven crowns,

Rev 17:1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.

Rev 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.
Rev 17:5 This title was written on her forehead:

read those verses and see what they say ;the two women are different ?? one was sitting on water while the other was sitting on the beast (scarlet)

now there are also difference between the first beast out of the sea ,and the scarlet one ,even doe they have some similarities in there meaning ,( fallen kings for the heads,one to come ect.)

what is your take on this???

[Devolution]

Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,14:59)

The Ottoman empire is the head that suffered a deadly wound; the wound was healed by Muhammadin islam. Muhammadin islam is the eithth and of the seventh: and this whole world system is going to go into perdition.

Ed,

Sorry to be blunt, but i have to speak up again, you are wrong on this.

Jeremiah 51:24
And i will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the Lord

SKIP FORWARD…SAME SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED

Jeremiah 51:27
Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations against her (Babylon the great), call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz, appoint a captain against her, cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillars

Jeremiah 51:28 (here is the captain)
Prepare against her the nations with the kings of the Medes, the captains thereof, and all the rulers thereof, and all the land of his dominion.

SKIP FORWARD….SAME SUBJECT

Jeremiah 51:31
One post shall run to meet another, and one messenger to another, to shew the king of Babylon that his city is taken at one end.

This is a dual prophecy Ed. Only part fulfilled.
The coalition against Babylon the great will AGAIN be led by the Medo Persians…Iran!!

When the historic Medo Persians took Babylon, there was no fighting taking place in Babylon city…the fighting took place in another province…the Persians simply marched into the city and control was handed over to them without a fight…Babylon of old continued in one form or another up to 1000ad, and as a minor city thereafter up to 1000ad.
So the city was never taken at one end Ed….this is future.

Kingdoms of Ararat Ed….Hmmmmm!
Who do you suppose these are….Turkey, besides being part of the Ararat region, owned this Ararat region (all the nations thereof) when it was the Ottoman empire Ed!!!!!!!
So here we see that the Ottoman region will be against Babylon the great which means that she can not be Babylon the great Ed.

Moreover, AGAIN, The city Babylon was never conquered in stages Ed…
The Medo Persians merely marched in and claimed the whole city without a fight…again, the fighting took place outside the city in another province.

But Europe Ed…Europe can easily be taken at one end if one launches an attack from Turkey and her allies from the surrounding Ararat kingdoms!

ALL the muslims are going to stand up against Babylon the great AFTER a short joining/alliance with her.
So all the muslims WILL be marked/condemned also.
God means to have them killing eachother all leading up to Armageddon when they unite together once more at the end to fight the “alien invasion” approaching from the skies…Jesus and His angels!

So what does all this add up to?
That the Ottoman empire IS NOT representing the 7th head, for she comes against the 7th head that will transform into the 8th…and that head represents Babylon…which thus cancels out Ottoman empire as one of the heads…thus cancelling out Islam. You see Ed? Your version contradicts scripture.

I tell you, this Shoebat you are taking ideas from obviously didn't have a clue about all these prophecies before he made up his own interpretations Ed…

leave his imaginings behind and search for yourself Ed…

Cheers.

[Devolution]

Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,14:59)

The Ottoman empire is the head that suffered a deadly wound; the wound was healed by Muhammadin islam. Muhammadin islam is the eithth and of the seventh: and this whole world system is going to go into perdition.

Ed,

Sorry to be blunt, but i have to speak up again, you are wrong on this.

Jeremiah 51:24
   And i will render unto Babylon and to all the inhabitants of Chaldea all their evil that they have done in Zion in your sight, saith the Lord

SKIP FORWARD…SAME SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED

Jeremiah 51:27
   Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations against her (Babylon the great), call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz, appoint a captain against her, cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillars

Jeremiah 51:28 (here is the captain)  
   Prepare against her the nations with the kings of the Medes, the captains thereof, and all the rulers thereof, and all the land of his dominion.

SKIP FORWARD….SAME SUBJECT

Jeremiah 51:31
   One post shall run to meet another, and one messenger to another, to shew the king of Babylon that his city is taken at one end.

This is a dual prophecy Ed. Only part fulfilled.
The coalition against Babylon the great will AGAIN be led by the Medo Persians…Iran!!

When the historic Medo Persians took Babylon, there was no fighting taking place in Babylon city…the fighting took place in another province…the Persians simply marched into the city and control was handed over to them without a fight…Babylon of old continued in one form or another up to 1000ad, and as a minor city thereafter up to 1000ad.
So the city was never taken at one end Ed….this is future.

Kingdoms of Ararat Ed….Hmmmmm!
Who do you suppose these are….Turkey, besides being part of the Ararat region, owned this Ararat region (all the nations thereof) when it was the Ottoman empire Ed!!!!!!!
So here we see that the Ottoman region will be against Babylon the great which means that she can not be Babylon the great Ed.

Moreover, AGAIN, The city Babylon was never conquered in stages Ed…
The Medo Persians merely marched in and claimed the whole city without a fight…again, the fighting took place outside the city in another province.

But Europe Ed…Europe can easily be taken at one end if one launches an attack from Turkey and her allies from the surrounding Ararat kingdoms!

ALL the muslims are going to stand up against Babylon the great AFTER a short joining/alliance with her.
So all the muslims WILL be marked/condemned also.
God means to have them killing eachother all leading up to Armageddon when they unite together once more at the end to fight the “alien invasion” approaching from the skies…Jesus and His angels!

So what does all this add up to?
That the Ottoman empire IS NOT representing the 7th head, for she comes against the 7th head that will transform into the 8th…and that head represents Babylon…which thus cancels out Ottoman empire as one of the heads…thus cancelling out Islam. You see Ed? Your version contradicts scripture.

I tell you, this Shoebat you are taking ideas from obviously didn't have a clue about all these prophecies before he made up his own interpretations Ed…

leave his imaginings behind and search for yourself Ed…

Cheers.

[Devolution]

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2012,16:06)

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,21:44) Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2012,04:44) devo  and edj Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. why would this beast come out a pit rather than the sea or eath ? why was this particular beast was scarlet in color and more ;why his this beast is part of the final judgment the scarlet beast and the harlot are representation of different things,so his the great city could it be the city were our lord died this has to be answered first to understand ,to me any way Hi Pierre, Here is what i see… Scarlet = Red and/also reddish orange. Revelation 12:3    And there appeared another wonder in heaven, and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Revelation 17:3    So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness, and i saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:8    The beast that thou saw was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Is this the same beast as revelation 13? Rev 17:8 > and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder……when they behold the beast…… Rev 13:3 > and all the world wondered after the beast Rev 17:8 > whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8 > And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. So in my understanding, there is only one meaning for the 7 headed beast. So to me, the red/crimson stands for a sinful bloody beast, sinful from the very beginning. This beasts body will be destroyed The empires/heads are part of the body…not the body itself which supports the heads. the last healed head is part of the “final judgment” (pre millennial) because it is this very head that is operating during that end period. The 7th head is not technically the last, but becomes/transforms into the eighth head… so after it is healed, it is going to change once more…change from a “localized” empire into a global empire. Change into the eighth when the false prophet takes over… This 8th is technically the last head & comes from the pit itself because it is the “rebirth” of a dead empire from long long ago….what Satan has wanted all along and to which God has been restraining from happening until then… And once God stops restraining satans goal, it will come to pass through the False prophets actions. Babel is the beast that was and is not and is to come…all people under one king dwelling in one empire. And once she comes, she becomes the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Cheers. Devo the reason why I have ask those questions is to make you see that there is a difference between the scarlet beast and the other beast in Revelation 13 ,coming out of the sea,even that both have seven heads and ten horns seven crowns, Rev 17:1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. Rev 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. Rev 17:5 This title was written on her forehead: read those verses and see what they say ;the two women are different ?? one was sitting on water while the other was sitting on the beast (scarlet) now there are also difference between the first beast out of the sea ,and the scarlet one ,even doe they have some similarities in there meaning ,( fallen kings for the heads,one to come ect.) what is your take on this???

Hi Pierre,

What i see…

Quote

read those verses and see what they say ;the two women are different ?? one was sitting on water while the other was sitting on the beast (scarlet)

And the woman is also described as sitting on 7 mountains.

She sits on the beast…the waters…the mountains…they're all the same in context.

Here's what i mean, Notice it is only what she sits on that keeps changing?
Not her that changes in description but her “seat”.

First she is sitting on the beast..
God calls nations beasts because they operate in a dog eat dog world…like beasts with no heart devouring eachother.
Daniel describes nations as beasts as you know…
We agree that beasts/nations are made up of people yes?
And people are described as waters…
So beasts are made up of waters/peoples…just like we humans are 80% water…literally.
And this 7 headed beasts heads represent empires that stem from the body of waters…like rivers…
concentrations of peoples united that form nations/empires.

And as above, if mountains are nations, then the above applies also…but like Daniel confirms what beasts are…we need scripture to confirm mountains also…

Jeremiah 33:4
   For thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the MOUNTS, and by the sword.

Mounts is short for mountains as you know…
So the mountains attacked Israel…
Here is confirmation for mounts meaning nations/empires.

Rev 17:9
   …….the 7 heads are 7 mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

so the heads mountains..which are empires…which are made up of people…who are described as waters…

So to me, mountains/waters are interchangeable in this context wh
en speaking of gatherings of people.

So to me, when it says the whore sits on the beast, she is sitting on the nations since the beast represents human nations and peoples…the 7 empires spring forth out of the beasts body…which body is made up of people/waters…the empires being the concentrated groups…like rivers springing from the same source but with different names for those same waters branching out into different lands/terrain.

And when it says she sits on the waters…same thing….but a broader meaning is subtly implied…not only does this harlot influence on a national/empire scale, but also on an individual scale…every individual “drop of water” (person)
in that ocean is influenced by this harlot/whore and her offerings.

That is what i see Pierre.
I see the same thing being said but being said differently…said differently to cover a broader message…and to confuse the Ed's of this world….LOL…just joking Ed…

See what you think before i give you my understanding to the beast itself…if you still want/need to hear it that is…because to me, the same thing is happening in the beast descriptions too…just some subtle differences to identify time stages of that same beast.

Cheers.

[Ed J]

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,16:21)

Ed, SKIP FORWARD…SAME SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED Jeremiah 51:27    Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations against her (Babylon the great), call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz, appoint a captain against her, cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillars Jeremiah 51:28 (here is the captain)      Prepare against her the nations with the kings of the Medes, the captains thereof, and all the rulers thereof, and all the land of his dominion. Cheers.

Hi Devolution,

From 'the lion' to 'the bear'. (Daniel 7:4-5)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Devolution @ June 30 2012,00:29)

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2012,16:06) Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,21:44) Quote (terraricca @ June 26 2012,04:44) devo  and edj Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. why would this beast come out a pit rather than the sea or eath ? why was this particular beast was scarlet in color and more ;why his this beast is part of the final judgment the scarlet beast and the harlot are representation of different things,so his the great city could it be the city were our lord died this has to be answered first to understand ,to me any way Hi Pierre, Here is what i see… Scarlet = Red and/also reddish orange. Revelation 12:3    And there appeared another wonder in heaven, and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. Revelation 17:3    So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness, and i saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:8    The beast that thou saw was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Is this the same beast as revelation 13? Rev 17:8 > and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder……when they behold the beast…… Rev 13:3 > and all the world wondered after the beast Rev 17:8 > whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8 > And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. So in my understanding, there is only one meaning for the 7 headed beast. So to me, the red/crimson stands for a sinful bloody beast, sinful from the very beginning. This beasts body will be destroyed The empires/heads are part of the body…not the body itself which supports the heads. the last healed head is part of the “final judgment” (pre millennial) because it is this very head that is operating during that end period. The 7th head is not technically the last, but becomes/transforms into the eighth head… so after it is healed, it is going to change once more…change from a “localized” empire into a global empire. Change into the eighth when the false prophet takes over… This 8th is technically the last head & comes from the pit itself because it is the “rebirth” of a dead empire from long long ago….what Satan has wanted all along and to which God has been restraining from happening until then… And once God stops restraining satans goal, it will come to pass through the False prophets actions. Babel is the beast that was and is not and is to come…all people under one king dwelling in one empire. And once she comes, she becomes the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. Cheers. Devo the reason why I have ask those questions is to make you see that there is a difference between the scarlet beast and the other beast in Revelation 13 ,coming out of the sea,even that both have seven heads and ten horns seven crowns, Rev 17:1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. Rev 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. Rev 17:4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. Rev 17:5 This title was written on her forehead: read those verses and see what they say ;the two women are different ?? one was sitting on water while the other was sitting on the beast (scarlet) now there are also difference between the first beast out of the sea ,and the scarlet one ,even doe they have some similarities in there meaning ,( fallen kings for the heads,one to come ect.) what is your take on this??? Hi Pierre, What i see… Quote read those verses and see what they say ;the two women are different ?? one was sitting on water while the other was sitting on the beast (scarlet) And the woman is also described as sitting on 7 mountains. She sits on the beast…the waters…the mountains…they're all the same in context. Here's what i mean, Notice it is only what she sits on that keeps changing? Not her that changes in description but her “seat”. First she is sitting on the beast.. God calls nations beasts because they operate in a dog eat dog world…like beasts with no heart devouring eachother. Daniel describes nations as beasts as you know… We agree that beasts/nations are made up of people yes? And people are described as waters… So beasts are made up of waters/peoples…just like we humans are 80% water…literally. And this 7 headed beasts heads represent empires that stem from the body of waters…like rivers… concentrations of peoples united that form nations/empires. And as above, if mountains are nations, then the above applies also…but like Daniel confirms what beasts are…we need scripture to confirm mountains also… Jeremiah 33:4    For thus saith the Lord, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city, and concerning the houses of the kings of Judah, which are thrown down by the MOUNTS, and by the sword. Mounts is short for mountains as you know… So the mountains attacked Israel… Here is confirmation for mounts meaning nations/empires. Rev 17:9    …….the 7 heads are 7 moun tains, on which the woman sitteth. so the heads mountains..which are empires…which are made up of people…who are described as waters… So to me, mountains/waters are interchangeable in this context when speaking of gatherings of people. So to me, when it says the whore sits on the beast, she is sitting on the nations since the beast represents human nations and peoples…the 7 empires spring forth out of the beasts body…which body is made up of people/waters…the empires being the concentrated groups…like rivers springing from the same source but with different names for those same waters branching out into different lands/terrain. And when it says she sits on the waters…same thing….but a broader meaning is subtly implied…not only does this harlot influence on a national/empire scale, but also on an individual scale…every individual “drop of water” (person) in that ocean is influenced by this harlot/whore and her offerings. That is what i see Pierre. I see the same thing being said but being said differently…said differently to cover a broader message…and to confuse the Ed's of this world….LOL…just joking Ed… See what you think before i give you my understanding to the beast itself…if you still want/need to hear it that is…because to me, the same thing is happening in the beast descriptions too…just some subtle differences to identify time stages of that same beast. Cheers.

Devo

So far you doing ok, and I am curious to know more ,even doe you have not answered all my question,

But I am all ears

[Devolution]

Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,17:46)

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,16:21) Ed, SKIP FORWARD…SAME SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED Jeremiah 51:27    Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations against her (Babylon the great), call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz, appoint a captain against her, cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillars Jeremiah 51:28 (here is the captain)      Prepare against her the nations with the kings of the Medes, the captains thereof, and all the rulers thereof, and all the land of his dominion. Cheers. Hi Devolution, From 'the lion' to 'the bear'. (Daniel 7:4-5) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

The bear only represented the Persian royal bloodline, not the Median royal bloodline.

That is why God did not say Medo Persian Bear/king…but instead said Persian Bear/king…He made sure the point of the Bear being Persian was clear.

And when He described the horns of the ram as being Medo kings (1 horn) AND Persian kings (other horn), He was making sure His point was being made of TWO separate bloodlines by adding and into the sentence.

Just agree with me so we can stop debating this would you Ed!!

[Ed J]

Hi Devolution,

He didn't 'say' Persian Bear/king either.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,17:59)

He made sure the point of the Bear being Persian was clear.

And…  how exactly was this done?  

[Ed J]

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,17:59)

And when He described the horns of the ram as being Medo kings (1 horn) AND Persian kings (other horn), He was making sure His point was being made of TWO separate bloodlines by adding and into the sentence. Just agree with me so we can stop debating this would you Ed!!

Hi Devolution,

Yes, 'the bear' that raised itself up on one side. (Dan 7:5)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Devolution]

Quote (terraricca @ June 29 2012,17:55)

Quote

Devo So far you doing ok, and I am curious to know more ,even doe you have not answered all my question, But I am all ears

Thanks Pierre, that's very patient of you.

I believe the differences in the description of the beast is like the differences in the gospel parables….where Luke might quote something Jesus said, then Mark has a little more information that Luke didn't mention on that same quote, and John then also adds even more etc until the full picture emerges…

Rev 12, the beast vision is shown in heaven
This to me is showing the source behind the beast…that is, a spiritual origin…from Satan…the true power at work behind the sinful worldly kingdoms.
Like the woman with a crown of 12 stars…her source is from God…He is the true power behind His church…spiritual origins too.
Now the beast is called Satan in rev 12:9, but Satan isn't made up of nations, which are made of men, Satan is an angel, an individual, spirit….so the beast must be a metaphorical representative of it's owner, Satan. So since he owns this beast, shapes it, rules it, it can be called Satan, for it reflects his attributes/dealings in this world within the kingdoms which he rules…proud, strong, beastly, merciless etc Satans attributes/influence manifested in the world of men described as a beast.

I believe it has only 7 crowns in this ch12 vision because the vision was confirming that there will be 7 empires with great authority, and this vision was not focussing on the kings (details) of those empires just yet, which would require mentioning 10 crowns etc (more details)…but was just giving the general description of the beast for now, letting us know who the aggressor is, because the vision of ch12 mainly concerned Jesus and his church/saints being targeted by this beast…that was the main focus…

The only difference to me between Ch13 & ch17, is that the beasts color is not mentioned, and that ch17 adds even more information by mentioning the whore/harlot.

Now ch13, because ch13 is focussing on what this beast does to mankind (in the world) when it appears…and who takes control of it…and then focusses on that leader…it is not addressing/focussing/adding on to the spiritual side of this same beast just yet like ch17 does, but instead focusses on the physical attributes in the physical world…

Then we get to ch17…and like the gospels example, now finer details are given to where ch12 left off…and what ch13 did not focus on….now comes deeper insight to the powers behind this worldly beast…now comes the spiritual dimension in the explanation…that this worldly beast is supplied and influenced by this spiritual source described as a whore, as a woman.

And her explanation is another subject that we aren't discussing yet…

So that's why i believe what i believe on this subject Pierre…now you can understand me a little better and why i say what i say on this subject…

Cheers Pierre.

[Devolution]

Quote (Ed J @ June 29 2012,18:57)

Hi Devolution, He didn't 'say' Persian Bear/king either. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Daniel 11:1
In the first year of Darius the MEDE, even i (Gabriel), stood to confirm (explain) and to strengthen him (to strengthen Daniel)…

Notice a MEDE king is ALREADY in power?

A Mede already there…already arisen.

Daniel 11:2
……Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in PERSIA…and the fourth shall be far richer than them all…

Notice no mention of MEDIA?
Why leave Media out all of a sudden?
Maybe because the focus is on the empire that gets taken over by PERSIA…and from thenceforth, it was known as the Persian empire…not Media Persian empire any more.
so before this fourth PERSIAN king arises, three kings shall be before him…

Daniel 7:5
And behold, another beast, a second like a bear, …skip…and it had three ribs in the mouth of it….

to be fair, i agree with you, it did not specifically call the bear a Persian…but compare the scriptures Ed…
A king arises with three ribs in its mouth…
three
three ribs/bones/dead things/men/kings were before this bear…the focus is on kings after all…so why mention ribs?
The ribs signify deceased kings before this other one rises to power.
which means it is the 4th…with 3 coming before it…
matching Daniel ch11

Cheers.

[Ed J]

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,23:33)

Daniel 7:5    And behold, another beast, a second like a bear, …skip…and it had three ribs in the mouth of it…. to be fair, i agree with you, it did not specifically call the bear a Persian…but compare the scriptures Ed… A king arises with three ribs in its mouth… three three ribs/bones/dead things/men/kings were before this bear…the focus is on kings after all…so why mention ribs? The ribs signify deceased kings before this other one rises to power. which means it is the 4th…with 3 coming before it… matching Daniel ch11 Cheers.

Hi Devolution,

I appreciate your explanation and do see the match you are making,
but I believe reason for the ribs is to point to the three previous world regimes.
Which, at the time, no connections were made from Babylon back to the Egyptian empire.     ← | →    …and futuristically pointing to the dragon of Rev.17:3

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Devolution @ June 29 2012,23:33)

Notice no mention of MEDIA? Why leave Media out all of a sudden?

MEDIA is mentioned in the first verse. (not left out)

[terraricca]

Quote (Devolution @ June 30 2012,06:17)

terraricca,June wrote: [/quote] Quote Devo So far you doing ok, and I am curious to know more ,even doe you have not answered all my question, But I am all ears Thanks Pierre, that's very patient of you. I believe the differences in the description of the beast is like the differences in the gospel parables….where Luke might quote something Jesus said, then Mark has a little more information that Luke didn't mention on that same quote, and John then also adds even more etc until the full picture emerges… Rev 12, the beast vision is shown in heaven This to me is showing the source behind the beast…that is, a spiritual origin…from Satan…the true power at work behind the sinful worldly kingdoms. Like the woman with a crown of 12 stars…her source is from God…He is the true power behind His church…spiritual origins too. Now the beast is called Satan in rev 12:9, but Satan isn't made up of nations, which are made of men, Satan is an angel, an individual, spirit….so the beast must be a metaphorical representative of it's owner, Satan. So since he owns this beast, shapes it, rules it, it can be called Satan, for it reflects his attributes/dealings in this world within the kingdoms which he rules…proud, strong, beastly, merciless etc Satans attributes/influence manifested in the world of men described as a beast. I believe it has only 7 crowns in this ch12 vision because the vision was confirming that there will be 7 empires with great authority, and this vision was not focussing on the kings (details) of those empires just yet, which would require mentioning 10 crowns etc (more details)…but was just giving the general description of the beast for now, letting us know who the aggressor is, because the vision of ch12 mainly concerned Jesus and his church/saints being targeted by this beast…that was the main focus… The only difference to me between Ch13 & ch17, is that the beasts color is not mentioned, and that ch17 adds even more information by mentioning the whore/harlot. Now ch13, because ch13 is focussing on what this beast does to mankind (in the world) when it appears…and who takes control of it…and then focusses on that leader…it is not addressing/focussing/adding on to the spiritual side of this same beast just yet like ch17 does, but instead focusses on the physical attributes in the physical world… Then we get to ch17…and like the gospels example, now finer details are given to where ch12 left off…and what ch13 did not focus on….now comes deeper insight to the powers behind this worldly beast…now comes the spiritual dimension in the explanation…that this worldly beast is supplied and influenced by this spiritual source described as a whore, as a woman. And her explanation is another subject that we aren't discussing yet… So that's why i believe what i believe on this subject Pierre…now you can understand me a little better and why i say what i say on this subject… Cheers Pierre.

Devo

I have read all ,so far I have followed you and still doe ,I am still curious ,so please go on,

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