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KJ,
you said:Quote Yes Jesus returned in ad70. Explain this to me.
with evidence, a Detailed explanation.The Importance of Understanding the Historical Events of AD 70
A number of Christians who have studied the historical events of AD 70 have asked the question: Why is knowing what happened in AD 70 important to my Christian walk?
The author of this web site recalls the first time he personally shared these new concepts of the events of AD 70 with another Christian brother. The comment by this particular Christian brother was: If what you say is true, what is left for Christians? This Learning Activity will address these concerns. What follows are a series of insights that various Christians have given as to why the events of AD 70 are important to their Christian walk.
1. Salvation – There is no effect on the understanding of salvation. Under the New Covenant a person becomes a Christian and enters eternal life by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ!
2. Redefinition of “the blessed hope!” There currently exists in the church today an expectation (a hope) that Jesus will one day come back for His church. This belief finds its origin in the following verse:
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13).
When that statement was recorded in the Scriptures (likely in the Spring of AD 57), Christ's presence was still future as we have seen in Learning Activity #34. After AD 70, the church should no longer be looking for the return of Christ as He is already here and living in His body, the church, of which He is the head. With this AD 70 understanding of the Scriptures, the blessed hope is redefined from a future hope to a present reality!
3. The historic events of AD 70 give credibility to Jesus, the writers of the Scriptures and the Scriptures themselves because the imminency statements in the Bible do not have to be twisted and turned about in an attempt to make them believable. In the AD 70 fulfillment understanding the imminency statements can be accepted at face value with no games being played with them. The scriptures I refer to include the following:
a. “But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come” (Matt.10:23). Jesus was clearly speaking to “the twelve” (see verse five) in this passage. They were to see Him come back in their lifetime!
b. “Jesus saith unto him [the high priest], Thou hast said [that I am the Christ the Son of God]: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven” (Matt.26:64). Jesus said He would come back (His Parousia) in the clouds during the lifetime of the high priest!
c. “Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (Matt.16:28). Jesus said that some of those who were standing before Him when He made this statement would not die before they saw Jesus coming in His kingdom! Some Christians are still waiting today for the kingdom and the King to come because they do not understand the events of AD 70!
d. “Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled” (Matt.24:34).
e. “Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation” (Matt.23:36). Everything Jesus spoke of would take place in the generation of those who stood before Him as He spoke!
If we consider the statements above that were made by Christ, we must come to one of the following conclusions:
(1) Jesus was confused about future events.
(2) Jesus deliberately misled those He spoke to.
(3) Jesus lied to those He spoke to.
(4) Jesus told the truth and many in the church today are guilty of believing something about the Scriptures that is not true; namely, that He has not yet returned and set up His kingdom.So influential are the previous passages that they caused the noted British philosopher, mathematician, and Nobel laureate Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to publish a book entitled, Why I Cannot Become a Christian. Russell understood that Jesus' statements never took place as Jesus had said they would and no one in the church could tell him otherwise to clear up his misunderstanding.
Albert Schweitzer (1875–1965) a French Protestant clergyman, philosopher, musicologist, medical missionary, and Nobel laureate had the same problem with the statements Jesus had made. Schweitzer interpreted the life of Jesus in the light of Jesus' eschatological beliefs. Schweitzer's book, The Quest for the Historical Jesus, 1906, contains many of Schweitzers misled beliefs.
If these two learned men were so misled by their understanding of the statements of Jesus, we must ask ourselves how many more have been led astray from the truth of Christianity both in the past and in the present time because of a lack of understanding of the events of AD 70? When those who are respected in the church tell the world that the return of Christ is still future, they create a crisis of delay in the minds of the people keeping them from believing Christ at what He said about Himself as being true, therefore contributing to their denial of Christianity.
The biblical statements of imminency are not restricted to the words of Jesus alone. Other writers also portrayed imminency in their writing.
The Apostle Paul:
“Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand” (Philip.4:5).
Statements by James:
“Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh” (James 5:8).
“…behold, the judge [Christ] standeth before the door” (James 5:9).
If Jesus and the other writers of the Scriptures have made the preceding statements and those statements have not yet taken place (some 2,000 years later), then our belief in anything else that has been said in the Scriptures is in jeopardy. We may be believing in a fairy tale. But as the author of this web site understands the Scriptures, Jesus and the other writers meant exactly what they have written and those things and expectations that they had did take place exactly as they had stated. The biblical record clearly indicates an expectation and hope in which those in the early church waited for their returning Lord. The early church was comforted by the assurance that their day of deliverance was at hand; the judge who was the deliverer from the persecution that was coming against them was already at the door; and in a very little while He who was to come was coming and that time would not be delayed. It is impossible for the author of this web site to believe that the confident expectation of those in the early church of an almost immediate deliverance from their persecution is still today considered to be in the future after more than twenty centuries of waiting!
There are only two alternatives possible: either those in the Bible were grossly deceived in their expectation of the return of Christ (the Parousia), or that event did take place, in accordance with their expectation and the Lord's prediction Himself. If we believe that the Parousia has not yet taken place, then those we have quoted from the Scriptures possessed a vain hope and lived in the belief of a delusion. If the Scriptures are in error in regard to the Parousia which was one of the most confident and cherished beliefs of the early church, how can we today place any confidence in any of the other issues to which the Scriptures speak?
http://christeternalchristianchurch.com/learningactivity69.htm
the Roo
Hi KJ,
The Scriptures are eternal and speak to every generation.
Phil4.5
“The Lord is near”
Are you not aware of his presence?HI Jack,
Thanks for your explanation here: why you believe the 70 AD date!
My question is: Why didn't you explain this when I asked you Here?Biblical evidence suggests Jesus returned on Pentecost. (Click here)
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 25 2010,11:07) The Importance of Understanding the Historical Events of AD 70 A number of Christians who have studied the historical events of AD 70 have asked the question: Why is knowing what happened in AD 70 important to my Christian walk?
The author of this web site recalls the first time he personally shared these new concepts of the events of AD 70 with another Christian brother. The comment by this particular Christian brother was: If what you say is true, what is left for Christians? This Learning Activity will address these concerns. What follows are a series of insights that various Christians have given as to why the events of AD 70 are important to their Christian walk.
1. Salvation – There is no effect on the understanding of salvation. Under the New Covenant a person becomes a Christian and enters eternal life by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ!
2. Redefinition of “the blessed hope!” There currently exists in the church today an expectation (a hope) that Jesus will one day come back for His church. This belief finds its origin in the following verse:
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13).
When that statement was recorded in the Scriptures (likely in the Spring of AD 57), Christ's presence was still future as we have seen in Learning Activity #34. After AD 70, the church should no longer be looking for the return of Christ as He is already here and living in His body, the church, of which He is the head. With this AD 70 understanding of the Scriptures, the blessed hope is redefined from a future hope to a present reality!
3. The historic events of AD 70 give credibility to Jesus, the writers of the Scriptures and the Scriptures themselves because the imminency statements in the Bible do not have to be twisted and turned about in an attempt to make them believable. In the AD 70 fulfillment understanding the imminency statements can be accepted at face value with no games being played with them. The scriptures I refer to include the following:
a. “But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come” (Matt.10:23). Jesus was clearly speaking to “the twelve” (see verse five) in this passage. They were to see Him come back in their lifetime!
b. “Jesus saith unto him [the high priest], Thou hast said [that I am the Christ the Son of God]: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven” (Matt.26:64). Jesus said He would come back (His Parousia) in the clouds during the lifetime of the high priest!
c. “Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom” (Matt.16:28). Jesus said that some of those who were standing before Him when He made this statement would not die before they saw Jesus coming in His kingdom! Some Christians are still waiting today for the kingdom and the King to come because they do not understand the events of AD 70!
d. “Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled” (Matt.24:34).
e. “Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation” (Matt.23:36). Everything Jesus spoke of would take place in the generation of those who stood before Him as He spoke!
If we consider the statements above that were made by Christ, we must come to one of the following conclusions:
(1) Jesus was confused about future events.
(2) Jesus deliberately misled those He spoke to.
(3) Jesus lied to those He spoke to.
(4) Jesus told the truth and many in the church today are guilty of believing something about the Scriptures that is not true; namely, that He has not yet returned and set up His kingdom.So influential are the previous passages that they caused the noted British philosopher, mathematician, and Nobel laureate Bertrand Russell (1872–1970) to publish a book entitled, Why I Cannot Become a Christian. Russell understood that Jesus' statements never took place as Jesus had said they would and no one in the church could tell him otherwise to clear up his misunderstanding.
Albert Schweitzer (1875–1965) a French Protestant clergyman, philosopher, musicologist, medical missionary, and Nobel laureate had the same problem with the statements Jesus had made. Schweitzer interpreted the life of Jesus in the light of Jesus' eschatological beliefs. Schweitzer's book, The Quest for the Historical Jesus, 1906, contains many of Schweitzers misled beliefs.
If these two learned men were so misled by their understanding of the statements of Jesus, we must ask ourselves how many more have been led astray from the truth of Christianity both in the past and in the present time because of a lack of understanding of the events of AD 70? When those who are respected in the church tell the world that the return of Christ is still future, they create a crisis of delay in the minds of the people keeping them from believing Christ at what He said about Himself as being true, therefore contributing to their denial of Christianity.
The biblical statements of imminency are not restricted to the words of Jesus alone. Other writers also portrayed imminency in their writing.
The Apostle Paul:
“Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand” (Philip.4:5).
Statements by James:
“Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh” (James 5:8).
“…behold, the judge [Christ] standeth before the door” (James 5:9).
If Jesus and the other writers of the Scriptures have made the preceding statements and those statements have not yet taken place (some 2,000 years later), then our belief in anything else that has been said in the Scriptures is in jeopardy. We may be believing in a fairy tale. But as the author of this web site understands the Scriptures, Jesus and the other writers meant exactly what they have written and those things and expectations that they had did take place exactly as they had stated. The biblical record clearly indicates an expectation and hope in which those in the early church waited for their returning Lord. The early church was comforted by the assurance that their day of deliverance was at hand; the judge who was the deliverer from the persecution that was coming against them was already at the door; and in a very little while He who was to come was coming and that time would not be delayed. It is impossible for the author of this web site to believe that the confident expectation of those in the early church of an almost immediate deliverance from their persecution is still today considered to be in the future after more than twenty centuries of waiting!
There are only two alternatives possible: either those in the Bible were grossly deceived in their expectation of the return of Christ (the Parousia), or that event did take place, in accordance with their expectation and the Lord's prediction Himself. If we believe that the Parousia has not yet taken place, then those we have quoted from the Scriptures possessed a vain hope and lived in the belief of a delusion. If the Scriptures are in error in regard to the Parousia which was one of the most confident and cherished beliefs of the early church, how can we today place any confidence in any of the other issues to which the Scriptures speak?
http://christeternalchristianchurch.com/learningactivity69.htm
the Roo
KJit is your number 4 who is right.
Pierre
Hi T,
Jesus established the kingdom 2000 years ago and has been choosing men as building stones ever since.[Eph2.20f, 1Peter 2.4-5]Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2010,15:05) Hi T,
Jesus established the kingdom 2000 years ago and has been choosing men as building stones ever since.[Eph2.20f, 1Peter 2.4-5]
hi nickEph 2:20 You are a building that is built on the apostles and prophets. They are the foundation. Christ Jesus himself is the most important stone in the building,
does this says that the kingdom is established??
1Pe 2:4 Christ is the living Stone. People did not accept him. But God chose him. God places the highest value on him.
1Pe 2:5 You also are like living stones. As you come to him you are being built into a house for worship. There you will be holy priests. You will offer spiritual sacrifices. God will accept them because of what Jesus Christ has donelook what it says “there you WILL BE ” so in time
1Pe 1:5 Through faith you are kept safe by God’s power. Your salvation is going to be completed. It is ready to be shown to you in the last days.
1Co 15:52 That will happen in a flash, as quickly as you can wink an eye. It will happen when the last trumpet sounds. The trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised to live forever. And we will be changed.
wen is the last trumpet sound given ?? Nick
and only then the dead will be raised.1Co 4:8 You already have everything you want, don’t you? Have you already become rich? Have you begun to rule as kings? And did you do that without us? I wish that you really had begun to rule. Then we could rule with you!
1Co 4:1 Here is how you should think of us. We serve Christ. We are trusted with God’s secret truth.
1Co 4:2 Those who have been given a trust must prove that they are faithful.so the gathering of Gods people start with Christ 2000 years ago but only at the end of time will the kingdom rule ,wen all the concern persons are complete in there number.
Pierre
Hi Guys,
He has already returned, and is even now, reconcilling the kingdon to his Father.
The great war is raging all around…
You are, a lot of you, looking on like Tolkien's 'Hobbits'. While war and desimmation is raging all around, you sit in your public bar and tea houses, supping a pint of 'allinson ale' or 'earl grey best tea'..(ok, Americans like their 'JD' and Aussie like their 'Foster's' tinny…) and discuss the finer points of whether 'begotten' means 'past perfect tense of Beget'.
Does anyone recall the 300. Out of the thousands, only the 300 who 'looked up' while refreshing themselves at the river, went into conquering battle. The rest were sent home in disgrace!
Get your heads out of the bottom of you pint glass, tea cups, tinnies, whatever,..and see what is happening in the world and justifiably say, 'I want no part of this world'
Footballers, paid 100,000pounds Sterling a Week…and they, the elite, paid a million pounds Sterling for being in the world cup, … And they can't play any better than a Sunday league kick abouter in the local park.
Goes to show that money is craving and doesn't match ability.
Bankers…hefty bonuses for 'failing and bringing down' the world economy.
Students, …ever increasing number getting 'best grades'?? Soon, every University will be filled with anyone who can write an 'X' in a box. You can get a Batchelor of Arts degree for 'toe nail painting'…this so that the number of women with degrees can be increased. Snd men, you can get a batchelor and a masters degree in 'serving McDonalds fast food'
World pollution is on the increase..so what does man do? Chop down all the trees…the very trees that were obsorbing the pollution and creating oxygen? But how do you say to a poor farmer in undeveloped tribal areas of Brazil, 'Don't chop down your trees for pennies, look what happened to us…oh by the way, i'll have a thousand of those giant redwood evergreen cos they sell for thousands in europe..heres 20 quid, it's like gold to you'!!!
More………
How is this evidence of 'reconciling'No, you thinking wrong! Satan is in the world and he knows he only has a short time, so he is causing mankind to trap itself in a spiral of negative behaviour under the guise of, 'if only you did this, or that, then you will see you can rule yourself'. Science, politics, dictatorship, autocracy, unilateralism, 'united nations peace??? Keeping force'..whatever happened to the 'league of nations', wasn't that a 'Comic [book] superpower'?
Yet, slavery is abolished, christian persecution is increasing, the 'falling away' is in hand, the 'Abomination' has been exposed in the Catholic Church…yes, the one that houses the Trinity Creed.
Trinity Creed has fallen like Satan falling like lightening from Heaven….yes, every trinity lie has been thwarted in thisfirum and the likes of WJ and KJ have turned to the weaker members to get their kicks, yes, the ones who like pointless Hobbit-like debates that have no beginning and no ending, yeh, Eternal Debates, bringing on procrastination and paralysis in the Spirit.More….
Head high, living in the now
Jesus is here, let me tell you how
Scripture is sound, Scriptures is right
Read in Spirit, understand then you might
Cleansing the Temple, gonna take a while
Don't ever despair, its just Jesus' style
Be Spirit not flesh can't go wrong
God's Peace, He won't be long.That was so cool Ja, I loved the rap, poetry whatever! Cool.
But why do you see trinitarians or the RCC as the enemy?
Why Does Christ say in Revelations that he comes shortly?
which is like many years later.
John being the last to die from the Apostle.What kind of aggravates me is that, you gave me alot of information but
you didnt tell me what happened.Like what happened! in 70 ad, this doesnt make sense.
SF,
I know you want KJ to answer you…and I agree with the approach.
Ask one question and pursue that without wavering.
Look for tha answer in the response. If it ain't there, restate the question and ignore the 'padding'.
70Ad…the Romans invaded Jerusalem and caused utter destruction of the Temple, even entering the inner sanctuary where only the High Priest is allowed , the 'earthy' abode of God. Hence the saying, 'The Abomination standing where it should not'
Kar,
This is also for you. The 'abomination' are also the one who endorsed the Trinity.
The RCC is it's child, or the one into which the abomination gave it's power and authority. Read the relevant chapter and verses in Revelation.Kar, and all. Do not feel sorry nor be sympathetic with the Cancer of Sin nor those who encourage it.
Feel sorry and sympathetic with those deceived within it but not the ones that cover it.
SF,
Jesus is refering to his second coming.
Do you imaging that 'his reward is with him to give to those that have washed their robes' was only for the Apostles? No, for ALL 'who washed their robes', which means 'the end'
His reward is to judge the world and give 'life' to those who believe.
Does Jesus, himself, 'give life' or just marks those out 'for life', and that life is 'in, and from, the Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God'
70 ad, I recall reading, in Jerusalem something was seen above in the skies, horses and voices or something, it was on some preterist site? Or recorded by Josephus I think it was,
ok I found this in a quick search..
http://www.purelybiblical.com/ftp/D/Destruction_of_Jerusalem.pdf
Quote (karmarie @ June 26 2010,23:29) 70 ad, I recall reading, in Jerusalem something was seen above in the skies, horses and voices or something, it was on some preterist site? Or recorded by Josephus I think it was, ok I found this in a quick search..
http://www.purelybiblical.com/ftp/D/Destruction_of_Jerusalem.pdf
Hi k,Thanks for the link on Josephus. It was very informative.
KJ
Quote (karmarie @ June 26 2010,23:29) 70 ad, I recall reading, in Jerusalem something was seen above in the skies, horses and voices or something, it was on some preterist site? Or recorded by Josephus I think it was, ok I found this in a quick search..
http://www.purelybiblical.com/ftp/D/Destruction_of_Jerusalem.pdf
Kthanks for that info very interesting
Pierre
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